Talk to me about PSSM

[Exasperated]

For what it’s worth, and I can’t believe I need to repeat myself, if the vit e doesn’t work (and bloods/hair test comes back fine) or I feel his symptoms getting worse, I will be sending him for a performance work up at the vets.

I’m by no means an expert, so I cannot say for sure that it isn’t a lameness issue. However, I went through enough of it with Nova to spot signs of pain even if lameness isn’t obvious. I know Nova was probably more obvious with her pain, as Shadow seems the more introverted type, but apart from the lethargy, I don’t really have anything to go to the vets with as he isn’t showing any other signs of pain whatsoever. Not even niggly little ones like a bit tail swishy to tack up or uncomfortable to pick his back feet up.

Before anyone says anything, I’m not adverse to going to the vets for a performance workup. In fact, I’m very much the kind of person who will ring the vets for anything that doesn’t feel right to me. I saw the vet more times than I saw my own parents last year! However, the vit e deficiency/PSSM thing seemed to match up with his symptoms and general demeanour - especially with the time of year and his breed. As others have said, adding vit e and keeping him warm with regular exercise isn’t going to have any negative effects if it isn’t vit e/PSSM. He’s not in a great deal of work anyway - mostly in-hand poles, hacking and one schooling session a week and I will always get off/stop my session if things don’t feel right.

You don’t need to repeat or justify yourself at all.
It is crystal clear why and what you are concerned about, also what your plan of action will be - dependent on how the horse responds.
It is entirely straightforward to understand both your logic, and your genuine concern for the horse. If others can’t appreciate that, or can’t read - their problem, not yours. I just hope he makes good progress!

 

[Fransurrey]

My cob has PSSM1. He's heterozygous, but shows pretty much every symptom bar the full tying up. The most noticeable is the hacking with handbrake on. We rarely canter and it can be a real effort just to keep him moving. This cold wet weather has been a nightmare for us, but he at least lives out with a shelter, so is moving constantly when it's not torrential rain. He's mostly in a 50g liner and no-fill, as he overheats in anything more unless it's below 0 degrees. He was borderline too warm this morning and it was only 8 degrees. I normally wouldn't rug a hairy cob in that!

You don't say what age your horse is, but mine started to really show signs when he was 6 or so. Bought him as a 5 yo, lots of hacking that year (it was lockdown year!) and red flags were that we simply couldn't get him to do anything in the school beyond a feeble trot. The instructor said it might be his new saddle, which I changed, but no improvement, so we gave up on schooling (it's pure sand, so difficult for most horses) and did it out hacking. He was also uncoordinated and constantly rested hind legs, was almost ataxic at times and always had a pee when leaving the field to be ridden (but would stop 2-3 times before finally having a wee). He was blood tested after consulting with vet (due to above and lack of muscling, despite hilly hacking) and showed elevated muscle enzymes but not alarmingly so at the time (it was September, though, so still warm). I did the Animal Genetics test the beginning of the following spring.

Hope you get answers. for the price of the test, you can rule it out for less than a vet call out and go from there (which hopefully isn't tearing your hair out like some of us!).

 

[Exasperated]

My cob has PSSM1. He's heterozygous, but shows pretty much every symptom bar the full tying up. The most noticeable is the hacking with handbrake on. We rarely canter and it can be a real effort just to keep him moving. This cold wet weather has been a nightmare for us, but he at least lives out with a shelter, so is moving constantly when it's not torrential rain. He's mostly in a 50g liner and no-fill, as he overheats in anything more unless it's below 0 degrees. He was borderline too warm this morning and it was only 8 degrees. I normally wouldn't rug a hairy cob in that!

You don't say what age your horse is, but mine started to really show signs when he was 6 or so. Bought him as a 5 yo, lots of hacking that year (it was lockdown year!) and red flags were that we simply couldn't get him to do anything in the school beyond a feeble trot. The instructor said it might be his new saddle, which I changed, but no improvement, so we gave up on schooling (it's pure sand, so difficult for most horses) and did it out hacking. He was also uncoordinated and constantly rested hind legs, was almost ataxic at times and always had a pee when leaving the field to be ridden (but would stop 2-3 times before finally having a wee). He was blood tested after consulting with vet (due to above and lack of muscling, despite hilly hacking) and showed elevated muscle enzymes but not alarmingly so at the time (it was September, though, so still warm). I did the Animal Genetics test the beginning of the following spring.

Hope you get answers. for the price of the test, you can rule it out for less than a vet call out and go from there (which hopefully isn't tearing your hair out like some of us!).

Very, very sorry for both you and the cob. There isn’t really anything else to say. X

 

[SEL]

For what it’s worth, and I can’t believe I need to repeat myself, if the vit e doesn’t work (and bloods/hair test comes back fine) or I feel his symptoms getting worse, I will be sending him for a performance work up at the vets.

I’m by no means an expert, so I cannot say for sure that it isn’t a lameness issue. However, I went through enough of it with Nova to spot signs of pain even if lameness isn’t obvious. I know Nova was probably more obvious with her pain, as Shadow seems the more introverted type, but apart from the lethargy, I don’t really have anything to go to the vets with as he isn’t showing any other signs of pain whatsoever. Not even niggly little ones like a bit tail swishy to tack up or uncomfortable to pick his back feet up.

Before anyone says anything, I’m not adverse to going to the vets for a performance workup. In fact, I’m very much the kind of person who will ring the vets for anything that doesn’t feel right to me. I saw the vet more times than I saw my own parents last year! However, the vit e deficiency/PSSM thing seemed to match up with his symptoms and general demeanour - especially with the time of year and his breed. As others have said, adding vit e and keeping him warm with regular exercise isn’t going to have any negative effects if it isn’t vit e/PSSM. He’s not in a great deal of work anyway - mostly in-hand poles, hacking and one schooling session a week and I will always get off/stop my session if things don’t feel right.

I'm sorry you feel you need to justify the route you are taking - vitamin E and an extra rug isn't going to harm your horse and in my responses I was 100% certain that you were the type of owner who would have already had the vet on speed dial if you felt there was something specific you could point them towards!

FWIW mine also was diagnosed with hock arthritis at 6 and ulcers. We assumed treating those would be the answer but literally nothing worked until I came across PSSM on the animal genetics site (I was looking at night blindness testing at the time) and the penny dropped. She was a 4yo freebie due to dangerous behaviour but quite quickly I'd worked out that she knew what I was asking but like Fran said above it was like riding through treacle. She knew the transition from walk to trot for instance but after a few strides of trot seemed exhausted. I suspect the hock problems came from her poor posture due to sore muscles although they might be genetic.

Getting her warm (she was fat so I had her unrugged), on a low NSC diet and with a decent dose of vitamin E (Equimins oil back then) turned her into a different horse and the hocks stopped becoming an issue.

Unfortunately damaging her suspensory ligament and the rest she needed for that was horrendous for her muscles and I've never managed to get her into the amount of work a PSSM horse needs since- so she lives the life of a pampered pet now.

 

[Mari]

Me too! But I think my experience with Nova has basically made me an overthinker and able to spot signs of things. Everyone on the yard just think he’s an undermuscled, lazy connie

Okay, thank you!

Lazy Connie! I’ve never known a lazy Connie.

 

[Fransurrey]

Very, very sorry for both you and the cob. There isn’t really anything else to say. X

Thank you.

J_Sarahd, sorry, that became a bit of a me post. I agree that extra Vit E and a management strategy won't do him any harm. Arguably most good doers should be on that kind of regime anyway, so nothing to lose!

ETA: your post stimulated me to order a new source of Vit E from Forage Plus yesterday and it's being delivered today, so if you go that route they are very quick to dispatch!

 

[J_sarahd]

Thank you.

J_Sarahd, sorry, that became a bit of a me post. I agree that extra Vit E and a management strategy won't do him any harm. Arguably most good doers should be on that kind of regime anyway, so nothing to lose!

ETA: your post stimulated me to order a new source of Vit E from Forage Plus yesterday and it's being delivered today, so if you go that route they are very quick to dispatch!

Don’t apologise - its good to hear people’s stories and experiences as I’m so inexperienced with PSSM.

I have some vit e and he had his first 10,000IU dose yesterday and been kept warm and done light work Monday and yesterday. Tonight will be our first schooling session - not expecting many (if any) changes and I’ll stop if things still feel rocky.

 

[J_sarahd]

Lazy Connie! I’ve never known a lazy Connie.

To be fair, I do know a few connies I’d class as lazy. Whether they also have things wrong with them, I can’t say. But they’re lazy in a “do the minimum amount of work I can get away with” kind of lazy instead of “feeling like we’re stalling” kind of lazy that Shadow feels.

 

[Rowreach]

I've been thinking about this and some of the comments on this thread, and I know that when my mare became symptomatic (from a complete dote as a 4/5 year old to unrideable at 5/6), I had a long chat with my vet and we jointly agreed on an initially conservative approach of paring back the feed to nothing and restarting with a bit of SB + VitE, changing haylage for hay, and doing the hair test. If that hadn't worked, then off to the vet hospital for a full workup.

Test came back negative, but by that time her personality had morphed back to its old self just by managing her feed, keeping her warmer than I would have thought she needed to be, and adding VitE + selenium. Turns out that there are lots of things that she's reactive to feed-wise, and that the YO at the time (who had fat show cobs) had decided she was too thin and was secretly feeding her up with all sorts of cr4p I did wonder at the time why the YO was panicking about me feeding VitE + selenium but she realised that there was masses of selenium in what she was giving her, and clearly couldn't tell me that.

My point though is that the vet was more than happy to see if management would work before embarking on any other investigations.

 

[J_sarahd]

A bit of an update as he’s been on vit e for a few days now. I’ve not noticed any big changes in his ridden behaviour but that’s only because I schooled him on Wednesday and he’d not been on the vit e for long (to be fair, he started off more forward and there were more moments of him being softer in the frame), he had a day off on Thursday due to work commitments and I hand-walked him yesterday due to the fact I couldn’t be bothered to tack up and ride but knew he needed to do something.

The biggest improvement I’ve noticed is his aggression. Before, he was lunging and trying to bite people if they walked past, I’d struggle to go into his stable with his dinner because he’d just try and bite me or run out. But the past few days, he hasn’t been aggressive at all and yesterday, he politely stepped backwards when I brought his dinner into his stable!

Maybe a big coincidence, and the ridden behaviour will be the true test of whether the vit e and extra rugs are working, but he seems softer - if that makes sense? (Although he was a bit of a pain to hand-walk yesterday, but I think that was anxiety of being “alone”)

PSSM1 test was delivered yesterday so hopefully I’ll have the results of that soon.

 

[I'm Dun]

A bit of an update as he’s been on vit e for a few days now. I’ve not noticed any big changes in his ridden behaviour but that’s only because I schooled him on Wednesday and he’d not been on the vit e for long (to be fair, he started off more forward and there were more moments of him being softer in the frame), he had a day off on Thursday due to work commitments and I hand-walked him yesterday due to the fact I couldn’t be bothered to tack up and ride but knew he needed to do something.

The biggest improvement I’ve noticed is his aggression. Before, he was lunging and trying to bite people if they walked past, I’d struggle to go into his stable with his dinner because he’d just try and bite me or run out. But the past few days, he hasn’t been aggressive at all and yesterday, he politely stepped backwards when I brought his dinner into his stable!

Maybe a big coincidence, and the ridden behaviour will be the true test of whether the vit e and extra rugs are working, but he seems softer - if that makes sense? (Although he was a bit of a pain to hand-walk yesterday, but I think that was anxiety of being “alone”)

PSSM1 test was delivered yesterday so hopefully I’ll have the results of that soon.

The weirdest thing I noticed with mine was that she was always a fidget tied up. Sometimes mild,sometimes absolutely OTT. Within a week of vitamin e she would stand tied up resting a leg. A complete and total change.

 

[paddy555]

A bit of an update as he’s been on vit e for a few days now. I’ve not noticed any big changes in his ridden behaviour but that’s only because I schooled him on Wednesday and he’d not been on the vit e for long (to be fair, he started off more forward and there were more moments of him being softer in the frame), he had a day off on Thursday due to work commitments and I hand-walked him yesterday due to the fact I couldn’t be bothered to tack up and ride but knew he needed to do something.

The biggest improvement I’ve noticed is his aggression. Before, he was lunging and trying to bite people if they walked past, I’d struggle to go into his stable with his dinner because he’d just try and bite me or run out. But the past few days, he hasn’t been aggressive at all and yesterday, he politely stepped backwards when I brought his dinner into his stable!

Maybe a big coincidence, and the ridden behaviour will be the true test of whether the vit e and extra rugs are working, but he seems softer - if that makes sense? (Although he was a bit of a pain to hand-walk yesterday, but I think that was anxiety of being “alone”)

PSSM1 test was delivered yesterday so hopefully I’ll have the results of that soon.

I think you will have to be patient with the ridden behaviour, It may take time. Mentally in the stables it may be quicker as he feels better, ridden (if you have a vit e deficiency) he will have to work himself through the expectation of pain.

Mine (who without doubt was vit e def) was different in the stable after about 36 hours, I kept quiet and OH (who does not have much interest in my experiments) remarked he was a bit nicer after 48 hours and wasn't that odd.

I didn't ride. I don't ride ill horses and vit e def. is an illness. I long reined daily off a headcollar with loose ropes and the horse chose how to move in straight lines. After 3 weeks we were doing an hour a day walking around the roads on straight lines at a good speed very easily.
Then the rider got back on.

If you have a deficiency it will take time for the levels to build up. No doubt someone will come on and say their horse was cured and jumping cross country courses after 3 days but I would give a high dose for a month and then evaluate ridden work. Schooling suggests circles and frames. If you really have to ride I would stick to straight lines at his speed to give him the best chance.

 

[Michen]

A bit of an update as he’s been on vit e for a few days now. I’ve not noticed any big changes in his ridden behaviour but that’s only because I schooled him on Wednesday and he’d not been on the vit e for long (to be fair, he started off more forward and there were more moments of him being softer in the frame), he had a day off on Thursday due to work commitments and I hand-walked him yesterday due to the fact I couldn’t be bothered to tack up and ride but knew he needed to do something.

The biggest improvement I’ve noticed is his aggression. Before, he was lunging and trying to bite people if they walked past, I’d struggle to go into his stable with his dinner because he’d just try and bite me or run out. But the past few days, he hasn’t been aggressive at all and yesterday, he politely stepped backwards when I brought his dinner into his stable!

Maybe a big coincidence, and the ridden behaviour will be the true test of whether the vit e and extra rugs are working, but he seems softer - if that makes sense? (Although he was a bit of a pain to hand-walk yesterday, but I think that was anxiety of being “alone”)

PSSM1 test was delivered yesterday so hopefully I’ll have the results of that soon.

That's great! Well not great to have a horse with a problem, but in the grand scheme of things they like to throw at us this seems pretty managable. Hopefully upwards from here

 

[Rowreach]

I think you will have to be patient with the ridden behaviour, It may take time. Mentally in the stables it may be quicker as he feels better, ridden (if you have a vit e deficiency) he will have to work himself through the expectation of pain.

Mine (who without doubt was vit e def) was different in the stable after about 36 hours, I kept quiet and OH (who does not have much interest in my experiments) remarked he was a bit nicer after 48 hours and wasn't that odd.

I didn't ride. I don't ride ill horses and vit e def. is an illness. I long reined daily off a headcollar with loose ropes and the horse chose how to move in straight lines. After 3 weeks we were doing an hour a day walking around the roads on straight lines at a good speed very easily.
Then the rider got back on.

If you have a deficiency it will take time for the levels to build up. No doubt someone will come on and say their horse was cured and jumping cross country courses after 3 days but I would give a high dose for a month and then evaluate ridden work. Schooling suggests circles and frames. If you really have to ride I would stick to straight lines at his speed to give him the best chance.

I agree, the change can be quite dramatic and speedy but there’s a lot of catching up the horse needs to do.

 

[J_sarahd]

I think you will have to be patient with the ridden behaviour, It may take time. Mentally in the stables it may be quicker as he feels better, ridden (if you have a vit e deficiency) he will have to work himself through the expectation of pain.

Mine (who without doubt was vit e def) was different in the stable after about 36 hours, I kept quiet and OH (who does not have much interest in my experiments) remarked he was a bit nicer after 48 hours and wasn't that odd.

I didn't ride. I don't ride ill horses and vit e def. is an illness. I long reined daily off a headcollar with loose ropes and the horse chose how to move in straight lines. After 3 weeks we were doing an hour a day walking around the roads on straight lines at a good speed very easily.
Then the rider got back on.

If you have a deficiency it will take time for the levels to build up. No doubt someone will come on and say their horse was cured and jumping cross country courses after 3 days but I would give a high dose for a month and then evaluate ridden work. Schooling suggests circles and frames. If you really have to ride I would stick to straight lines at his speed to give him the best chance.

Oh definitely - I’m not expecting much change in his ridden behaviour so quickly and I expect it to be a gradual change but the fact he’s become better in the stable is a win for me.

Our schooling has never been very intense - normally 20 mins of walk, trot, canter and some poles once a week. But I’m happy to sack it off for a bit and focus on hacking and groundwork for the time being.

Hopefully we’ve found our answer to his problem and he will be a buzzy connie and not the “boring” “uncompetitive” connie he was sold to me as.

ETA: with our schooling, I never worried about his frame as him being forward enough was all I wanted. In my other post when I mentioned he as softer in the frame, it was being offered to me rather than me asking for it.

 

[Miss_Millie]

Can a vitamin E deficiency present similarly to PSSM but just be a lack of vitamin E? I'm not speculating in OP's case, just musing. Horses probably don't get as much grass at this time of the year, especially with these wetter, muddier winters. I find myself wondering if this might be coming increasingly common.

How much vit E is a 'normal' horse meant to have? I think my balancer has 2000iu. Can a horse 'overdose' on it?

I'm happy for you J_sarahd that you're seeing some improvements, that is great news

 

[paddy555]

Oh definitely - I’m not expecting much change in his ridden behaviour so quickly and I expect it to be a gradual change but the fact he’s become better in the stable is a win for me.

Our schooling has never been very intense - normally 20 mins of walk, trot, canter and some poles once a week. But I’m happy to sack it off for a bit and focus on hacking and groundwork for the time being.

Hopefully we’ve found our answer to his problem and he will be a buzzy connie and not the “boring” “uncompetitive” connie he was sold to me as.

ETA: with our schooling, I never worried about his frame as him being forward enough was all I wanted. In my other post when I mentioned he as softer in the frame, it was being offered to me rather than me asking for it.

that's great. Just let him walk. You sound slightly hopeful if there is a slight reaction to vit e.
Keep everything you have crossed because it will be a very easy solution. (OK you will have to pay for vit e)

 

[J_sarahd]

that's great. Just let him walk. You sound slightly hopeful if there is a slight reaction to vit e.
Keep everything you have crossed because it will be a very easy solution. (OK you will have to pay for vit e)

Thank you! The cost of the vit e for a happy, healthy horse is worth it. And like Michen said, in the grand scheme of things they can and do throw at us, buying vit e for the rest of his life isn’t the worst!! Just keeping my fingers firmly crossed that I’ve found our answer

 

[ycbm]

Can a vitamin E deficiency present similarly to PSSM but just be a lack of vitamin E? I'm not speculating in OP's case, just musing. Horses probably don't get as much grass at this time of the year, especially with these wetter, muddier winters. I find myself wondering if this might be coming increasingly common.

How much vit E is a 'normal' horse meant to have? I think my balancer has 2000iu. Can a horse 'overdose' on it?

I'm happy for you J_sarahd that you're seeing some improvements, that is great news

Your balancer probably only has synthetic vitamin E, so it only counts as 1,000iu. The recommendation would be for 2,000iu and many, many horses are deficient at this time of year when there been no sunshine on the grass.

Horses with restricted grazing can be short all year round, especially if the hay is old. Only new hay has good vitamin E levels, it fades in older hay.

Deficiency can make them lose weight, be tired and "just can't put my finger on it" not right.

Old school hunters that I know would give vit E routinely after Christmas.

Yes, overdose is possible and dangerous but takes a long time on a high dose to build up in the liver.

.

 

[ycbm]

Thank you! The cost of the vit e for a happy, healthy horse is worth it. And like Michen said, in the grand scheme of things they can and do throw at us, buying vit e for the rest of his life isn’t the worst!! Just keeping my fingers firmly crossed that I’ve found our answer

I can't stir my tea i have so many fingers crossed that you have such an easy answer.
.

 

[Miss_Millie]

Your balancer probably only has synthetic vitamin E, so it only counts as 1,000iu. The recommendation would be for 2,000iu and many, many horses are deficient at this time of year when there been no sunshine on the grass.

Horses with restricted grazing can be short all year round, especially if the hay is old. Only new hay has good vitamin E levels, it fades in older hay.

Deficiency can make them lose weight, be tired and "just can't put my finger on it" not right.

Old school hunters that I know would give vit E routinely after Christmas.

Yes, overdose is possible and dangerous but takes a long time on a high dose to build up in the liver.

.

The balancer I use contains no synthetic minerals, but I wonder if some horses need more than others for whatever reason? One of my horses becomes a grump in Winter, tested negative for PSSM1. Now I'm wondering if upping the vitamin E might be worth a shot.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Really hoping that's the easy answer for you.

My horse was healthy, but I decided to add vitamin e when the grass died and he'd be on hay only. He went bonkers on vitamin e. Which I don't think is common!

 

[CanteringCarrot]

The balancer I use contains no synthetic minerals, but I wonder if some horses need more than others for whatever reason? One of my horses becomes a grump in Winter, tested negative for PSSM1. Now I'm wondering if upping the vitamin E might be worth a shot.

I feel like some horses do need more than others for whatever reason(s). That's not exclusive to vit e, in my experience. I had a horse that required "extra" copper and zinc otherwise he'd show signs of being deficient. No other horse on the yard that I know of did, including ones on the same or similar diet and workload.

 

[paddy555]

Can a vitamin E deficiency present similarly to PSSM but just be a lack of vitamin E? I'm not speculating in OP's case, just musing. Horses probably don't get as much grass at this time of the year, especially with these wetter, muddier winters. I find myself wondering if this might be coming increasingly common.

How much vit E is a 'normal' horse meant to have? I think my balancer has 2000iu. Can a horse 'overdose' on it?

I'm happy for you J_sarahd that you're seeing some improvements, that is great news w

yes, it did for me. I thought it may be PSSM but I got lucky (as I hope Sarah will)
this link explains about vit e and grass in winter in case anyone isn't aware. (It was just the first website I found I am not advocating it)

Winter Nutrition Spotlight: Health-E Vitamin E for Pasture-Limited Horses

As the cold winter months set in and pastures go dormant, it is crucial for horse owners to assess their horses' nutritional needs. One often-overlooked nutrient during this season is Vitamin E. Horses kept in stalls or with limited access to fresh pasture are at risk of developing Vitamin E...

equinemedsurg.com

so basically winter a shortage from both grass and hay.


track systems a shortage all year if they don't get a lot of grass
lami prone horses a shortage because they are kept on restricted grass.

If you then add horses working or working hard and competing on unsupplemented vit e.


the link below gives limits re overdosing. I suspect overdosing may be pretty rare, due to the cost of it bankruptcy may be more common.

Vitamin E In Horses

Vitamin E In Horses Vitamin E functions as a biological antioxidant that serves to maintain normal neuromuscular function. Equine diseases that develop in the face of vitamin E deficiency in young animals include nutritional myodegeneration in conjunction with selenium deficiency, equine...

www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu

 

[ycbm]

The balancer I use contains no synthetic minerals, but I wonder if some horses need more than others for whatever reason? One of my horses becomes a grump in Winter, tested negative for PSSM1. Now I'm wondering if upping the vitamin E might be worth a shot.

It's definitely worth a shot. Some horses have a vitamin E myopathy unrelated to muscle myopathy. Nerve based things like shivers can often be moderated with vitamin E.

My vet was happy for me to try 8000iu for 3 months for mine but warned me to stop if it was making no difference. It did.
.

 

[ycbm]

the link below gives limits re overdosing. I suspect overdosing may be pretty rare, due to the cost of it bankruptcy may be more common.

 

[Miss_Millie]

I feel like some horses do need more than others for whatever reason(s). That's not exclusive to vit e, in my experience. I had a horse that required "extra" copper and zinc otherwise he'd show signs of being deficient. No other horse on the yard that I know of did, including ones on the same or similar diet and workload.

That's interesting to hear. After reading the thread on how many people don't feed balancers, I'm still trying to wrap my head around how people know that their horses are getting what they need? Because apparently it can take years for a deficiency to present itself physically in the horse. Do people blood test yearly or something? I feed a balancer most of the year round, sometimes easing off in summer when everything is lush as the horses show no interest in their bucket feeds at that point anyway.

It's definitely worth a shot. Some horses have a vitamin E myopathy unrelated to muscle myopathy. Nerve based things like shivers can often be moderated with vitamin E.

My vet was happy for me to try 8000iu for 3 months for mine but warned me to stop it it was making no difference. It did.
.

Thanks, that is v.helpful. I'm going to give it a shot!

the link below gives limits re overdosing. I suspect overdosing may be pretty rare, due to the cost of it bankruptcy may be more common.

Vitamin E In Horses

Vitamin E In Horses Vitamin E functions as a biological antioxidant that serves to maintain normal neuromuscular function. Equine diseases that develop in the face of vitamin E deficiency in young animals include nutritional myodegeneration in conjunction with selenium deficiency, equine...

www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu

This is why I never replied to the 'Money diet' thread, because the only way I'm ever going to be not broke is by giving up horses!

 

[Miss_Millie]

track systems a shortage all year if they don't get a lot of grass

the grass free tracks who advocate for zero supplements and not testing your hay make me shudder!

 

[paddy555]

the grass free tracks who advocate for zero supplements and not testing your hay make me shudder!

I have never worked out what horses on tracks do for vit E, how many get supplemented. I know the one you are referring to.

It is not just tracks we now keep horses very differently. In summer they are off the grass due to lami and in winter off the grass due to the wet not that the grass in winter is going to do much for vit E.
Then they are worked year round due to arenas and lights etc.
There used to be a lot of posts on earlier threads of my young horse has just started work and can't do it, (exactly the same as Sarah here)
I think we thought it was PSSM for many of them but then of course they coped as non worked youngsters with little vit E but once they started work they needed supplementing.

I have 4 on vit E so the "money diet" thread would be way beyond me.

 

[ycbm]

. Do people blood test yearly or something?

I did for iron, copper, vitamin E. If I was doing it now I would add selenium. You need a Jan/Feb test for vitamin E because it's stored in and released from the liver so deficiency in the blood won't show until the liver has run out.
.