Tall narrow natives, Arab?

ycbm said:
Tell me more? I've met one or two. Pushy to the point of bolshy. Need keeping in their place. High knee action. Lots of character.

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I am no expert and certainly not a breed expert but I think you should assess conformation in a Welsh just as you would another horse with the proviso that this may not be the best age to look at him. My mare can trot with her knees up to her chin or beautifully normally - depending on her mood/the situation. She has good shoulder and hip angles, good HPAs, nice short cannon bones, decent hocks etc and you will know when you see him. Having said that, at his age he may look awkward now because he will probably be late maturing. He has a decent length of back in fact which some of the show lines don't necessarily. You need to see him in the flesh I think!! :)
 
ycbm said:
I don't know D's at all. Is his neck a bit short, or is that normal for a3 year old?
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I don't know about Ds either, but if a cob has a short neck at 3 it's likely to stay short.
He's a stunning colour though.

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ycbm said:
Tell me more? I've met one or two. Pushy to the point of bolshy. Need keeping in their place. High knee action. Lots of character.

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No he's not pushy or bolshy at all, he's actually a very kind chap. But he's extraordinarily quirky - very difficult to catch, very suspicious of new people and men, and can be a real panicker. He's also broken in every way imaginable - my sister got him as a 5 year old, had one nice year of riding with him, and since then it's been navicular, bone spavin, ulcers, and SI issues. Probably wouldn't surprise anyone that he's been fully retired for the best part of 6 years now (he is 17)! It's actually a real shame because he was always sweet to ride and he is the nicest natured horse ever (once you've caught him!). He also started crib biting somewhere during one of the many periods of box rest he did for his navicular, before he went to Rockley Farm.

He is the nicest person imaginable and I know that we have just been incredibly unlucky with him, but I just don't know if I could ever bring myself to have another Welsh D! He's very lucky that my old Arab needs a companion and thinks he's utterly wonderful, and I've resigned myself to the fact that he doesn't actually need catching every day (or even every week!). I just corral him when the vet or farrier is due!
 
cobgoblin said:
I don't know about Ds either, but if a cob has a short neck at 3 it's likely to stay short.
He's a stunning colour though.

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Yes, I think a very short neck in a breed that tends to have thick necks anyway might be slightly limiting but in the pic on the ad ycbm is looking at I didn't see a particularly short neck, just a slightly tense one which may be entirely unfair as he only has one photo on his ad! He is a colt too and only 3. I think, from this one pic, that he is quite nice but has a bit of growing to do and plenty of filling out. I certainly would want to look at him in reality, see him properly stood up and moved.
 
that helps! :D it's weird when Im sure preloved lets you add a fair few, even though I've only ever sold horsey bits there rather than whole horses.
 
blodwyn1 said:
Without brightwells sales there will be a lot of welshies on the market. At auction only really exceptional colts would reach 3,000 +.
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I'm not seeing the adverts?

And as I said, if they bred him I wouldn't begrudge them that sort of money. I paid 2k for a two year old stallion with an unregistered father three years ago. Some of the best money I've ever spent.

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ycbm said:
No, but it's a nice journey to Rossendale :)
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Wave if you go past j20 of the m60, or the east lancs exit if you go the other way round - house and yard respectively, and I can guarantee I'll be at one or the other.
It is a nice ride out up there, are you going tomorrow or monday? If monday rivington outlet sale is on (social distance observed) and might be worth a nosey round
 
ycbm said:
I don't know D's at all. Is his neck a bit short, or is that normal for a3 year old?
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I know pretty much nothing about section Ds and their breed standards. The pic shows a horse with too high head carriage for his conformation and very contracted at the same time so I would say he may well look different in the flesh :)
 
Roxylola said:
Wave if you go past j20 of the m60, or the east lancs exit if you go the other way round - house and yard respectively, and I can guarantee I'll be at one or the other.
It is a nice ride out up there, are you going tomorrow or monday? If monday rivington outlet sale is on (social distance observed) and might be worth a nosey round
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I've left it the weekend to see if he sells and i will ring again tomorrow later on and see. We'll go anticlockwise from just before Stockport.
 
Wheels said:
I know pretty much nothing about section Ds and their breed standards. The pic shows a horse with too high head carriage for his conformation and very contracted at the same time so I would say he may well look different in the flesh :)
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Rubbish picture, isn't it? But I like the size of him, the length of his back if he looks more in proportion in the flesh, and the blond tresses don't hurt :)

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Ooh, past my house then or near enough ycbm - but not the yard that way. It's a nice straightforward run that way and under normal circumstances avoids the trafford centre although I guess that's less of an issue now
 
Pinkvboots said:
Is it just me I think a lot of those Spanish horses have very odd looking hind limbs and back ends.
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Well, I am used to looking at them, and most modern horses' hind ends look very odd to me! Spanish horses are a different shape; their necks are higher, their forelimbs are set further forward, croups are sometimes rounder, sometimes flatter, hind limb angles are greater, heads are longer & narrower, they don't carry their tails, etc., etc. They move differently too, and don't move their backs like warmbloods do (thankfully, if you like being comfortable). A lot of people get in trouble when they start trying to make them go like the horses they are used to, or "correctly", as it's often put. It often doesn't go well if you try and make them go long and low - they're not built to do that, most don't go well in a snaffle; they're used to curb bits, a whole host of difference.....

I am usually looking at the low end of the market and expect to pay €1,500 - €4,000, my stated budget is €1,500 - €3,000. The last horse I bought was €2,000, but I am always looking at the less fashionable type of horse: small, very old fashioned movement (high knee action, often dishing), grey, roman nose, will buy mares, stallions, don't need PRE reg and don't mind a cruzado (mixed breed). If I was looking for something fancy - colours, 16.2h+, flat "dressage" movement, dished head, then it would be €5,000 ++++
 
ycbm said:
I'm not seeing the adverts?

And as I said, if they bred him I wouldn't begrudge them that sort of money. I paid 2k for a two year old stallion with an unregistered father three years ago. Some of the best money I've ever spent.

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Most people reckon on youngstock costing £1000 per year if you are to make breeding worthwhile so I get that though I know that there are well bred Welshies for sale for less; probably because they are very easy keepers and generally not expensive to raise.
 
Cortez said:
Well, I am used to looking at them, and most modern horses' hind ends look very odd to me! Spanish horses are a different shape; their necks are higher, their forelimbs are set further forward, croups are sometimes rounder, sometimes flatter, hind limb angles are greater, heads are longer & narrower, they don't carry their tails, etc., etc. They move differently too, and don't move their backs like warmbloods do (thankfully, if you like being comfortable). A lot of people get in trouble when they start trying to make them go like the horses they are used to, or "correctly", as it's often put. It often doesn't go well if you try and make them go long and low - they're not built to do that, most don't go well in a snaffle; they're used to curb bits, a whole host of difference.....

I am usually looking at the low end of the market and expect to pay €1,500 - €4,000, my stated budget is €1,500 - €3,000. The last horse I bought was €2,000, but I am always looking at the less fashionable type of horse: small, very old fashioned movement (high knee action, often dishing), grey, roman nose, will buy mares, stallions, don't need PRE reg and don't mind a cruzado (mixed breed). If I was looking for something fancy - colours, 16.2h+, flat "dressage" movement, dished head, then it would be €5,000 ++++
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This wrt conformation and way of going. Although generally speaking good conformation is good conformation regardless of breed/type BUT it really pays to understand some of the more influential breeds (TB, Arab, Spanish and native types in the UK) as they simply won't look the same or move in the same way as a fashionable modern-made warmblood. However, most of these older breeds are 'tried and tested' - certainly one reason I wanted a native for the kind of riding I do.
 
Cortez said:
Well, I am used to looking at them, and most modern horses' hind ends look very odd to me! Spanish horses are a different shape; their necks are higher, their forelimbs are set further forward, croups are sometimes rounder, sometimes flatter, hind limb angles are greater, heads are longer & narrower, they don't carry their tails, etc., etc. They move differently too, and don't move their backs like warmbloods do (thankfully, if you like being comfortable). A lot of people get in trouble when they start trying to make them go like the horses they are used to, or "correctly", as it's often put. It often doesn't go well if you try and make them go long and low - they're not built to do that, most don't go well in a snaffle; they're used to curb bits, a whole host of difference.....

I am usually looking at the low end of the market and expect to pay €1,500 - €4,000, my stated budget is €1,500 - €3,000. The last horse I bought was €2,000, but I am always looking at the less fashionable type of horse: small, very old fashioned movement (high knee action, often dishing), grey, roman nose, will buy mares, stallions, don't need PRE reg and don't mind a cruzado (mixed breed). If I was looking for something fancy - colours, 16.2h+, flat "dressage" movement, dished head, then it would be €5,000 ++++
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It's the straight back legs/sickle hocks I'm seeing that i don't like, C. Quite a few of them about.

I like the idea of the still back, Ludo is like sitting on a conveyor belt moving in four directions at once, it would be a nice change ?
 
we had a sec D. Never ever again. Not in a hundred million years. He was a very sweet horse. He walked through stable doors literally, split the planks straight down the middle he was so strong. He may have been better as a driving horse. Riding he was quite scary. You would be riding along the road happily at a walk and next thing with no warning he would have jumped sideways up a 4 feet bank or you would be riding in one direction on the common and suddenly find yourself going in the other direction. He could turn through 180 degrees at the drop of a hat before you even realised.
He had to be introduced to every sheep we met out riding individually and on Dartmoor there are an awful lot of sheep.
He couldn't realise that 1 sheep looked pretty much the same as another.
I did take him to some 25 mile rides. He always had to be vetted in a bridle, there was no way of holding him otherwise. I remember riding alone on one on the outskirts of a village. We met a cat and he totally refused to go past it. We had to wait for the next riders to catch up to get past it. At home one of our cats slept on his back in the stable. His brain power was, well, non existent.
I remember one day OH took us out in the lorry about 10 miles from home. I rode him, got back to the lorry and he totally refused to load. Just couldn't get him in. I had to ride home. How intelligent is that? nice ride in the lorry (which he was very used to) or have to work and I did make him work after that balls up. :D

I retired him at about 13. He was lucky we had the land and stabling so he could just live out his life in retirement. He died at 27. He was very very hard work to ride and I just gave up. There was just no pleasure in it.

He was the most beautiful horse ever, he could jump anything but he just didn't wish to do so most of the time with a rider on his back.
I made a bad mistake when I had him vetted. The person who had broken and trained him rode for the vet. Looking back I could see what a really good rider she was and how much work she had to put into riding him.

After that I've stuck to breeds with a brain and a lot more cooperation. :D:D
 
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