ester
Not slacking multitasking
Essex iirc, hence having lots of referral options.
Tell we what you see , besides a lame pony
- Thread starter Horsekaren
- Start date
Horsekaren
Well-Known Member
Just to clarify, some have mentioned wobblers. others have ,mentioned neck and neurological issues....the term wobblers is often used as shorthand for neck issues, but there are many other causes, many of which will be negative for the classic tests.
....wobblers is a specific condition of instability of the neck vertebrae which means that when the neck is moved in a certain way, pressure is applied to the spinal cord causing odd gait/balance anomalies particularly of the hind quarters.
....injuries to the neck, causing bony changes such as facet joint arthritis.....or soft tissue swellings....or disc problems, can also cause neurlogical or gait anomalies, but because the actual vertebrae are stable, the specific wobbler tests may be negative.....however certain movements such as that shown in your 1st video can cause pinching/pressure. The 2nd video could also show issues deep in the C6/C7 region, as lying down/getting up may trigger pain, and hence reluctance to lie down/stay lying down and hence sleep deprivation.
....if the neck has not been fully examined, please don't discount it as the primary site of issue. Also be aware that, contrary to what you might expect, some issues will show on X-ray/some on bone scan....but not necessarily on both!..and some need other tests to show up!.[/QUOTE]
I didn't realize it was a term used, i thought it was a specific thing.
I like the wording you have used above, so flipping it on its head and forget the back end and focus on the neck.
- he head shakes this time of year
-very stiff on left rein when ridden (see clip)
-he can do stretches but finds the left side hard.
-he did the same with a better rider on board
-clipping, perfect everywhere apart from neck, could be coincidence
When other people have ridden him they have said as soon as you play the rein to sit him back onto one of his hinds ( the video below is clear, (slo mo) he struggles. So how the neck issue is worded above is making me think. its not the best clip but i have him on the left rein, i ask him (all be it poorly) to come around to the left, im using leg too and he does that thing behind, i get scared and allow him to continue to the right. As soon as i back off and give in he continues fairly normally on the right rein. I think this is what happened on the long lines, i went to steer him to the left around the bush, ive then got scared backed off as soon as he does that thing and he has carried on and had a look at the bush. Do you see that, is that the same thing? So if what i'm seeing is right and it is coming from a play on the rein would that say neck or back end? If there is something going on in the neck would the hocks compensate for this somehow. If the stiffness is found on a ridden work up at a vets would they think neck or legs. Could that explain the jogging when i try and bring him back? would that be thrown out the window when he will go fine on the left rein lunge?
I know this is all questions for vets but i am just taking it all in and thinking out loud.
When it comes to insurance, i will claim for his hocks, if i have a work up done and they say neck or neuro ect would those be two claims? or does it all fall under one investigate?
Flying High- i really like that idea, if he is fine they wont find anything.
Goldenstar - i understand what you're saying, but in the grand scheme of things in terms of digging, we haven't dug that far, if anything by the pain over the SI disappearing and him trotting up better we can stop homing in on there and see a bigger picture so it might be blessing. I know i might not be able to get him right, but as of yet i haven't really tried as im mulling everything over as to spend the insurance the best way i can.
I am appreciating all of the experiences yous are sharing, i cant quote every post but i'm taking them all in. Thank you for the kind words too, i'm feeling less like smashing my heading into the wall this afternoon.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
How much have you got left on the insurance ?
You need to spend it with the right vet .
That’s a specialist in work ups who understands what’s possible and not possible in terms of costs .
BTw is there any evidence he may have broken his pelvis because that what he looks like , a horse I know who was returned home from another yard with a broken pelvis .
You need to spend it with the right vet .
That’s a specialist in work ups who understands what’s possible and not possible in terms of costs .
BTw is there any evidence he may have broken his pelvis because that what he looks like , a horse I know who was returned home from another yard with a broken pelvis .
HobleytheTB
Well-Known Member
Don't know if this is helpful or not RE neck stiffness - a friends cob was getting increasingly heavy on the left rein, to the point that you'd come away with an aching left arm/shoulder. X ray showed neck arthritis at, I think, one or maybe two areas. He has been much improved after having the area medicated, may need it doing again in the future. I think a neck x ray might be beneficial in your case, may be getting these complex symptoms due to multiple areas of pain, i.e hocks plus neck.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
That is the issue with insurance, and your vets doing a bit of it rather than one single work up as it can depend if anything is found if he isn't 'lame' and it's done as more of a loss of performance workup with regards to payout too (though I suspect it would be) and it just makes it a bit more complicated.
Horsekaren
Well-Known Member
If he broke his pelvis he would have done so at Liphook as he didnt do any of this jogging, locking ect until i sent him there for his breathing issues, he came back a different horse. I said on here that he keeps jogging when i got on him and wouldnt walk. it was put down to a horse feeling better but if i had been more experienced i think i would have thought more. When i collected him i was told he was cheeky and i know he can be but the more i think about it the more i wonder if he was a twit and injured himself there. I know that sounds crazy but he never jogged before then. He was poorly with his breathing, he was trying to kill me with his behavior but all everyone kept saying was he is so good and calm to ride that he was worth fighting for. That horse never came back, the joggy hard to ride one returned.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
HK re. that video to me shows him throwing his head up and then taking the dodgy step with the left hind, in that order rather than struggling initially with the left hind and then reacting with his head. It's not about being on the left rein particularly but hypothetically could be his neck just ending up in just the wrong spot, he reacts and then the hind takes it's funky step. IMO he isn't taking that sort of step as a result of you asking for him to come back and carry the weight behind.
Please make sure that anyone who takes him on has a very full list of all his issues since you have had him. He really needs a holistic approach not a well we will look at his back legs, or his back or his neck.
Please make sure that anyone who takes him on has a very full list of all his issues since you have had him. He really needs a holistic approach not a well we will look at his back legs, or his back or his neck.
Hormonal Filly
Well-Known Member
Your vets should be able to make it a separate claim. My cob is 14.1 and only just 10, he was very similar to yours especially the last video. His right rein was similar, he HATED bending right. He also has arthritic hocks yet he was never lame, which is why he was tough to find the problem. He also finds carrot stretches one side more difficult than the other. 2 vets couldn't work out the issue until we x-rayed, one even said hes taking the piss push him on.
I think your be best of calling your vet to expressing your concerns and ask for advise, rather than getting worried on here (and over thinking, like I do) We haven't seen the horse so its so difficult for us to give opinion and a vet knows best.
Its quite simple to x-ray the the neck can show if theres any issues or even better a CT scan. Neck x-rays cost me around £200 on the yard 6 months ago, so if you had to pay it isn't that crazy and as I was paying it was cheaper than the insurance (funny that!) It may be nothing related to his neck, but what you're saying reminds me of what I was going through.
Either send him to the vets or ask for a vet to visit you with the portable x-ray machine, but the x-rays have to be their recommendation if you're claiming. Best of luck.. I hope you find the issue
SEL
Well-Known Member
I have a friend whose cob is on v high doses of magnesium in order to lie down and sleep. No one understands what is up or why it works but it does.
For all those saying the drop in weight over winter is abnormal - i have a 14.2 draft who does the same if he's just out at grass. Needs food pumping into him from Jan onwards or he looks like a rescue case.
Personally I would ask for a referral for a full work up specifically including riding. Mainly because I didn't push issues with my mare and we're not covered by insurance and still not right under saddle.
For all those saying the drop in weight over winter is abnormal - i have a 14.2 draft who does the same if he's just out at grass. Needs food pumping into him from Jan onwards or he looks like a rescue case.
Personally I would ask for a referral for a full work up specifically including riding. Mainly because I didn't push issues with my mare and we're not covered by insurance and still not right under saddle.
Pinkvboots
Well-Known Member
I really feel for you it's really tough I know but while you have the claim going send him to a good place and get them to do a work up tell them everything that's happened at least you know then.
And there is nothing wrong with keeping him as a retired horse if he can't be ridden, don't feel like your being silly your not lots of people do it I've done it.
I really hope you get to the bottom of it and I really hope he can be fixed.
And there is nothing wrong with keeping him as a retired horse if he can't be ridden, don't feel like your being silly your not lots of people do it I've done it.
I really hope you get to the bottom of it and I really hope he can be fixed.
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
Our Appaloosa, who had AppyxAnglo-Arab breeding, so definitely not a cob, had a problem that really only showed up in trot, she 'stuttered'. A very experieiced instructor/friend suggested that it could be caused by an issue with the poll. Specialist vet came out diagnosed poll and neck problems, used acupuncture to treat and she was like a different horse.
OP I had a horse who was retired for over 12 years, so I understand how you feel but I did have other horses as well. And I knew that she was happy as a field ornament/companion, not in any pain.
flying_high
Well-Known Member
Alternately, and speaking as an allergic asthmatic, if you cant breath well, you will be very docile. Maybe fixing the breathing issue has allowed the true forward thinking joggy nature to surface? Maybe he never was truly quiet? Just speculating.
Horsekaren
Well-Known Member
I really dont think so, i had him a year before he went to liphook. The jogging isn't like he is trying to run off or prance, its possibly slower than walk, its just strange. He honestly never did that once before. He did it from the very first time i got on him when he came home. His breathing issues weren't fixed right away so it wasn't like he was suddenly cured.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
I meant might he have fallen and hurt himself at the dealer
Abi90
Well-Known Member
I feel for you HK, last year I had some unexplained behaviour from my horse and it took a long time and a lot of money to get to the bottom of it. I wish you luck!!
scats
Well-Known Member
I really feel for you OP. I was in a situation last year with a horse who had a bit of a question mark on her background and I had various professionals tell me that there was nothing wrong with her and that she was sound. But I had a horse that under saddle was exhibiting the signs of a very uncomfortable animal.
If it were me, I would send him in for a complete lameness investigation. Perhaps starting with a full body bone scan to see if they can pick up any areas of activity that might give a clue as to where there is an issue (if it’s a bone issue, that is) and then start scanning.
If it were me, I would send him in for a complete lameness investigation. Perhaps starting with a full body bone scan to see if they can pick up any areas of activity that might give a clue as to where there is an issue (if it’s a bone issue, that is) and then start scanning.
flying_high
Well-Known Member
Bone scans pick up areas of increased activity e.g. heat etc. They will pick up soft tissue injuries too. Painfully expensive, but useful
scats
Well-Known Member
Ah ok, my vets told me that they weren’t the best at picking up soft tissue injuries. I’ve had two horses have bone scans and their soft tissue injuries weren’t picked up on, unfortunately.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
I think your understanding is a bit limited.
Bone scans use a radioactive tracer that identifies areas of bone turnover. They don’t detect heat, but on the scans any active areas are called hotspots so can understand your confusion. They are not a scan that can diagnose soft tissue damage, they are for bone. You really get a very limited ‘image’. That said if you have a hotspot it can sometimes direct you to image surrounding soft tissue using different diagnostics - eg high suspensories at point of insertion can sometimes show some localised bone turnover.
scats
Well-Known Member
That was the impression I was under, thank you for explaining.
tristar
Well-Known Member
no you are not crazy, if you know he was different then he was, he could have got cast or kicked or slipped and done something in the pelvic region something has changed don`t think its your imagination
has he been worm counted does he show any ulcer symptoms
keep taking all the videos and photos you can you may even find a vet out of the country who can help or a very long way away, i know someone in france
sometimes the most dramatic symptoms turn out to be something simple and the subtle ones the most seriious
cobgoblin
Bugrit! Millennium hand and shrimp.
Neck possibly has a bit part to play or it is secondary to something behind.
eyes- i like the curve ball idea but its not his eyes, he often sets towards objects on purpose, if there is a cone or a barrel in an area he often makes a b line for them just to kick them over. He knew the bush was there.
Feet, possibly, vet said he was slightly foot sore on one of his fronts on hard ground but wasnt concerned.
Scats- When you say suspensory is this below his hock? would you think the issue is above or below the hock?
YCBM - its got something to do with putting the weight back i am sure of it. He is insured. The Arthritis is by no means severe, its very early stages which makes me wonder if this is secondary. regardless i doubt the injections have helped if he has done this within a week.
I will research wobblers but i think i have looked at this before and it doesnt seem right, its a response to pain. if you add the below video to the equation, this is him sleeping, he does this a fare bit. he doesnt lay down but will roll a lot. Its like he cant lock something he should be able to. Or its sleep deprivation which is what vet suggested before but could it all be linked? The clip was after he was let out of box rest so the poor thing was exhausted, i would say he probably does this 1 - 3 times a day. Vet not concerned
To add he is asleep in this clip, starting to go into REM, he isnt just stretching, he falls and it wakes him up slowely. i'm sure that clear but ive been told a few times he is stretching *roles eyes*
He is insured and i really want answers.
This video looks like a hypnopompic jerk... Possibly due to sleep deprivation.
I think this could be a red herring as regards the real problem.
Horsekaren
Well-Known Member
I’ve made up my mind, I’m going to ask for my vets to refer him to rossdales for a ridden work up, I tried to get a minute of trot out of him on grass and he just locked on the left today, a bit abnormal behind so that’s that, yesterday he didn’t show me anything clear and today he did. I’ll arrange a day off to take him and stay with him whilst it’s going on and take it from there.
May mission fix Strawberry commence!
I’ll keep you all posted x
May mission fix Strawberry commence!
I’ll keep you all posted x
Horse2018
Well-Known Member
I didn't realize it was a term used, i thought it was a specific thing.
I like the wording you have used above, so flipping it on its head and forget the back end and focus on the neck.
- he head shakes this time of year
-very stiff on left rein when ridden (see clip)
-he can do stretches but finds the left side hard.
-he did the same with a better rider on board
-clipping, perfect everywhere apart from neck, could be coincidence
When other people have ridden him they have said as soon as you play the rein to sit him back onto one of his hinds ( the video below is clear, (slo mo) he struggles. So how the neck issue is worded above is making me think. its not the best clip but i have him on the left rein, i ask him (all be it poorly) to come around to the left, im using leg too and he does that thing behind, i get scared and allow him to continue to the right. As soon as i back off and give in he continues fairly normally on the right rein. I think this is what happened on the long lines, i went to steer him to the left around the bush, ive then got scared backed off as soon as he does that thing and he has carried on and had a look at the bush. Do you see that, is that the same thing? So if what i'm seeing is right and it is coming from a play on the rein would that say neck or back end? If there is something going on in the neck would the hocks compensate for this somehow. If the stiffness is found on a ridden work up at a vets would they think neck or legs. Could that explain the jogging when i try and bring him back? would that be thrown out the window when he will go fine on the left rein lunge?
I know this is all questions for vets but i am just taking it all in and thinking out loud.
When it comes to insurance, i will claim for his hocks, if i have a work up done and they say neck or neuro ect would those be two claims? or does it all fall under one investigate?
Flying High- i really like that idea, if he is fine they wont find anything.
Goldenstar - i understand what you're saying, but in the grand scheme of things in terms of digging, we haven't dug that far, if anything by the pain over the SI disappearing and him trotting up better we can stop homing in on there and see a bigger picture so it might be blessing. I know i might not be able to get him right, but as of yet i haven't really tried as im mulling everything over as to spend the insurance the best way i can.
I am appreciating all of the experiences yous are sharing, i cant quote every post but i'm taking them all in. Thank you for the kind words too, i'm feeling less like smashing my heading into the wall this afternoon.[/QUOTE]
I saw a few articles on these condition you should get him tested it called Degenerative suspensory ligament desmitis
Horse2018
Well-Known Member
Get him tested for Degenerative suspensory ligament desmitis
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
HK, just to say lots of luck when he goes to rossdales....i would take your videos as well so they can see what he has been doing. fingers crossed they will find a problem and will be able to treat it....
ester
Not slacking multitasking
agreed they definitely need all the information you have and I'd be clear to them that you want it fully investigated if though he is 'just' a pony/cob. I think some of the referral centres get more used to doing full work ups on sport horse types.
emfen1305
Well-Known Member
I have nothing else to add on top of what others have said but just wanted to say I really feel for you. I’m also a one horse owner and know what it is like to go round and round trying to solve problems. I wish you the best of luck and will keep everything crossed for positive news for you and your lovely boy!
{97702}
...
Sadly it appears that you have a horse here with major issues who personally I would not be looking to ride again, at best I’d be hoping for a happy healthy retirement. You can throw as much money as you wish at it, but unfortunately my believe is that this is the best you will achieve.
If you want to pursue finding out what it is to the nth degree that is entirely your perogative, but personally that’s not my way.
I wish you the best of luck in achieving a happy, pain free life for him 😊
Edited - and I truly hope it’s not too late - for unduly forthright language. I apologise OP, there was no need ☹ï¸
If you want to pursue finding out what it is to the nth degree that is entirely your perogative, but personally that’s not my way.
I wish you the best of luck in achieving a happy, pain free life for him 😊
Edited - and I truly hope it’s not too late - for unduly forthright language. I apologise OP, there was no need ☹ï¸
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Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
Good luck. Hope you get him sorted out.