Dressage The big debate- top hats vs helmets for fei dressage

[Caol Ila]

You'd think skiers would wear helmets wouldn't you, but from my observations I would say it's about 50:50. Snowboarders tend to wear them because they are more likely to do the crazy stuff, but I've heard of people dying from a very innocuous slip at slow speeds. It tends to be compulsory for children in most resorts, but adults make their own choice. I ski with a friend who has never worn a helmet, despite the rest of us in the group wearing them. She's a nurse so probably knows more about the risks than most of us non-medical people.

I was talking about people racing. If you're in a race, it's mandatory. Obviously it isn't if you're just puntering around, and like you say, I would guess that helmet usage at your average ski area, outwith competitions, is around 50:50. I always do, especially on piste, because the slopes are full of idiots who are trying to crash into you.

 

[NinjaPony]

Surely they will end up making helmets compulsory at all levels in all equestrian sports including reining, might as well just bite the bullet and get on with it. At the top top level I think an example needs to be set, you can’t legislate for what people do at home but on a public stage I think it has to be done.

 

[Mule]

@mule, I'm sorry but this is absolutely incorrect.

We have many doctors/neurologists/specialists in and around here (USA) who are THRILLED that MIPS finally got to equestrian helmets.

It's been proven to have reduced brain injuries in cycling (the first sport helmets that were able to get it) motor sports, snow sports, rock climbing and in construction uses as well.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6743977/

You can find the various independent study results done by the Virginia Tech Helmet Lab here:

https://www.helmet.beam.vt.edu/index.html

That lab is about to start an unprecedented study on riding helmets and will be working to eliminate our ASTM pass/fail testing with a new 5* certification system so that we can know as consumers how well a helmet does in safety testing before we buy it. (Currently all we know is that helmets we can buy in the US have passed ASTM's testing methods. We do not know if they were well above the limits or right on the line)

You can read more about this study at www.ehsi.net

There are many US studies and the results have shown that MIPS technology (using a Slip plane) and Wavecel (Currently only in football, bicycle and some other sports helmets, but not equestrian) are both technologies that will help protect your brain in an added way.

The future I expect will give us further versions of ways to ensure that our brains themselves are protected as well as the skull itself.

Full disclosure I had a MIPS helmet on during my freak accident last year and I fully attribute the MIPS tech for helping to save my brain that had 11 concussions already before that day. (Not all horse related)

I run and organize a MIPS information Facebook Group (www.facebook.com/groups/Mipshelmets) And there's a lot of information out there about how MIPS is changing things and how riding helmets with Mips are expected to come into more prevalence.

There's technically 6 companies that have them here in the USA with our (Archaic, and hopefully outgoing) ASTM approval; Champion, Charles Owen, TraumaVoid(Back on Track), OneK, Tipperary and Armis Polo helmets.

As far as the dressage riders petition, I think as someone else said that it's a bit short sighted. A TBI or other serious head injury doesn't just affect the person it happens to. It affects many others in their daily sphere. I can appreciate that grown adults want to have their own choices, but safety shouldn't be something that we are arguing this passionately about, imo. There's risks to organizers as well with liability concerns and if accidents happen on their insurance policies for the events.

Wear the safest helmet you can when you're riding at a competition and show the people who look up to you that you at least sortof pretend to care.

If you wear nothing at home, that's on you and your accidents will be all your own. But don't fight to wear a beaver's butt on your head in front of crowds that should be respecting the inherent danger of our sports.

Em

That sounds promising, I'll have a good read ?

 

[Tiddlypom]

On a personal level, I don't get why anyone would feel the need to get on a horse without a helmet anyway.

Because they think that the percentages game will save them as they hurtle to the ground without a helmet?

 

[TPO]

No because FEI horse riders are adults who make an assessment of risk every time they have anything to do with a horse. They are not campaigning against it, they are campaigning against the compulsion of adults to comply with health and safety regulations which are not based on any evidence.

I'm an adult capable of carrying out risk assessments but regardless of negligible risk I wear a seatbelt.

I wear a seatbelt because that is the rule (law) when driving a car on public roads.

If I wanted (or was talented enough) to compete at FEI level then part of that would mean that I had to wear an appropriate safety hat.

Times move on. People didnt have to wear seatbelts previously or body protectors xc for example.

I don't have a dog in the fight. I've done serious riding and competing hatless and cant say I would never do it again. I can also see how daft it is not to take steps to ensure your safety when possible.

To me the petition looks pathetic and childish. Actually campaigning against safety wear that in no way negatively impacts their performance and might just save a life?!

 

[Rowreach]

To me the petition looks pathetic and childish. Actually campaigning against safety wear that in no way negatively impacts their performance and might just save a life?!

This just sums it up nicely.

 

[ester]

I was talking about people racing. If you're in a race, it's mandatory. Obviously it isn't if you're just puntering around, and like you say, I would guess that helmet usage at your average ski area, outwith competitions, is around 50:50. I always do, especially on piste, because the slopes are full of idiots who are trying to crash into you.

yup I was only talking athletes competing under governing bodies not what people choose to wear in their own time.

 

[Tiddlypom]

There was a major kick back against the compulsory wearing of seat belts too, when that legislation was being formulated.

People genuinely believed that they were safer if they got thrown clear of their vehicle in the event of a crash .

They weren’t. Dad got to operate on the survivors, once they’d been patched up by the trauma teams elsewhere, to save their sight - glass from the windscreen embedded in their eyes/other injuries.

 

[Jenni_]

Could you tell me which?

In 2016, the rules changed so that Olympic Boxers no longer had to wear protective headguards. One of the reasons were that they just didn't provide enough protection from 'big knocks' to justify wearing them.

 

[lottiepony]

I would say personal choice. Although very good point earlier about the fact it's not just the injured person who suffers, i think more people need to think about that side of thing perhaps?

Current horse i would never consider getting on with out a hat and I now always ride in a body protector. Competed on Sunday and did debate whether to wear it, glad I did as typical baby antics and whilst I stayed on board if i hadn't my risk of injury may have been higher!

 

[TPO]

In 2016, the rules changed so that Olympic Boxers no longer had to wear protective headguards. One of the reasons were that they just didn't provide enough protection from 'big knocks' to justify wearing them.

Was the reason not more that they enabled the person to get hit more and therefore increase the risk of CTE?

i.e. without a head guard you'd get knocked out if a big punch landed; with a head guard you could "tolerate" more big punches and damage that causes more issues in the long term.

That's why mma are lighter gloves too as heavier gloves mean softer, relatively speaking, blows and more damage can be taken

All of it is irrelevant surely. It's not whether you should or shouldn't wear hats, if you are less risk adverse if wearing safety gear or your personal choice outside of competition. A ruling body has passed a rule that to participate in their competitions you must do X, Y and Z and wear A, B and C. If you don't want to follow their rules then you cant play their games. Simple

I could understand the uproar if it was some ridiculous rule that could have a negative impact on performance etc but its literally swapping a top hat for a safety hat. How up yourself so you have to be to start a petition against something like this? It shouldn't have to wait until things are going wrong to look at preventive measures, it should be this foresight keeping people safe, reducing risk and ultimately saving lives.

 

[Cortez]

Speaking purely personally, I have been involved in more car crashes than I have had horse falls/fallen off. Obviously I wear a seatbelt whenever I drive, both because it's the law and because I have had firsthand experience of their necessity. I am fully aware of the risks of riding and handling horses, and I choose not to wear one. Any accident may require someone else to look after you; that's life. I am not interested in "setting an example", young people have parents to do that for them.

 

[Rowreach]

I am fully aware of the risks of riding and handling horses, and I choose not to wear one. Any accident may require someone else to look after you; that's life. I am not interested in "setting an example", young people have parents to do that for them.

But that's fine when you're doing your own thing, but if you were taking part in a sport, any sport, presumably you'd read the rule book and accept that you have to do xyz and wear abc in order to take part? Or not. And you would want the governing body of that sport to do everything possible to keep you as safe as possible, allowing for the fact that almost every sport has its own inherent risks?

That's what this ruling is all about, it's not telling anyone that they have to wear a hat at home, it's (much like the seatbelt law) telling people that if they want to compete in these competitions then they need to wear a helmet. To make the sport safer.

 

[Cortez]

But that's fine when you're doing your own thing, but if you were taking part in a sport, any sport, presumably you'd read the rule book and accept that you have to do xyz and wear abc in order to take part? Or not. And you would want the governing body of that sport to do everything possible to keep you as safe as possible, allowing for the fact that almost every sport has its own inherent risks?

That's what this ruling is all about, it's not telling anyone that they have to wear a hat at home, it's (much like the seatbelt law) telling people that if they want to compete in these competitions then they need to wear a helmet. To make the sport safer.

High level dressage competition is pretty safe.....certainly safer then driving to the shops for a pint of milk.

 

[Rowreach]

High level dressage competition is pretty safe.....certainly safer then driving to the shops for a pint of milk.

But that's not the point really - it's a horse sport so has inherent risk, and there really isn't any justifiable reason not to wear a helmet, so it makes perfect sense to bring it into line and make them compulsory in a high profile sport.

 

[milliepops]

I still can't get too bothered by it all but I don't have a problem with the the concept of top level competitors petitioning the FEI about something... its not long ago that people were wanting BE to put something in their rule book about banning dogs, which is a similar kind of movement.

I understand the concept of increasing safety, just toying with the concept of stakeholders proposing or opposing rules that are in development.

 

[Cortez]

But that's not the point really - it's a horse sport so has inherent risk, and there really isn't any justifiable reason not to wear a helmet, so it makes perfect sense to bring it into line and make them compulsory in a high profile sport.

Walking down the street has an inherent risk (especially if you're as clumsy as I am). The justifiable reason not to make wearing a crash helmet for high level dressage compulsory is that it is not a particularly dangerous activity. I'm not aware of queues of GP riders being stretchered off from Olympic competitions. If people want to wear a helmet that's their prerogative, I don't think it should be made compulsory (I also don't think people should be pressured to wear a topper if they don't want to, BTW).

 

[Cloball]

The more serious of concussions can cause something called diffuse axional brain injury (extremely serious) so concussions aren't always the mild ones we regularly hear of. This injury happens with one incident rather than repeat ones.

Actually I disagree, DAI is the working hypothesis for 'concussion' however as we don't biopsy or autopsy those with a mild closed head injury we can't be sure. The mouse models of mild traumatic brain injury is also very variable and a bit of a mild field.

I absolutely get your point about DAI and I apologise I'm not sure what field you bare in or if I'm even up to date, however, DAI is a working hypothesis regarding mild concussion since we do not biopsy or autopsy them and there are rarely specific changes on imaging. Again 'concussion' is often referred synonymously in the literature as a mild traumatic brain injury as opposed to DAI which usually in practise is a moderate to severe traumatic brain injury. Although helmet wearing doesn't prevent concussion and technically isn't designed to protect against an acceleration/deceleration event they do reduce the risk of a moderate to severe closed head brain injury which includes DAI. I'm not sure you can separate traumatic brain injuries in riding to only skull fractures, concussion and DAI.

What i meant was that the most serious brain brain injuries occur when the brain moves violently and crashes back and forth against the inside of the skull.

Unfortunately helmets and wearing seat belts in cars can't protect against this because the damage is internal. A person doesn't need to hit their head for this type of injury to occur. Anything that causes the head to move at high velocity can cause it.

So the helmet protects the outside of the head, the skull, but we can't protect the brain. This is what happens in shaken baby syndrome. There isn't any impact with an external object but the internal impact causes the damage.

Obviously protecting the skull is a very good idea but unfortunately we can't protect the brain itself.

 

[TPO]

Surely it's an insurance thing too?

I imagine it's not cheap for insurance for horse events and to then have competitors not even wearing the bare minimum of safety wear?? Seems ludicrous

I get that there should be democracy within a sport but I think the crux of wanting dogs banned was to increase safety/reduce risk/potentially save lives whereas the whole basis of this appears to be vanity? That somehow a top hat is a more attractive option than a safety helmet?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder (or beer holder ?) and to each their own but apart from how it looks what is the basis of their petition?

Every chance it's me but I coulsnt see any basis for their rejection of wearing a helmet beyond they dont want to be told what to do?

I mean horse events tell you what tack, what clothes, what topical creams etc etc you can and cannot use and that's ok but apparently the line is at doing what is the bare minimum in regards to riding safety and wearing a helmet?

Again no dog in the fight. I pretty much dont care about anyone else. I've ridden hatless and undoubtedly will again at some point. But I am aware enough that if I want to compete that I follow the rules and even more so when the rules are specifically in place to keep riders safe, no?

 

[BunnyDog]

Maybe this is something in the American part of me, but I was deeply saddened to see Carl Hester's name on this list.

Now, to clarify, I am 49 years old. I have liked having a say in how I do things in my adult life for a long time. But I do understand that when I wish to partake of a competition on someone else's organization/location that I am expected to play by their rules.

I thought, and maybe it was just how I interpreted it, that Carl was one who understood the helmet usefulness, especially given his proximity on a daily basis to CD. Now, I get it. He absolutely has a right to his own opinions, and he's a brilliant rider regardless, but it seriously depressed me to see his name on this list.

Em

 

[Cortez]

OK, I'll not keep repeating the fact that high level dressage competition is not exactly the epicentre of danger, but would you like them all to wear body protectors too? I mean that's safer than not wearing one, right?

If the rules require you to wear stuff, and you want to compete, then you have to wear that stuff. At present it is a choice. I see no compelling reason (people sustaining head injuries at high level (or even low level, for that matter) dressage competitions) to change the rules.

 

[RachelFerd]

Top hats make people look like absolute plonkers.... it's a sport not a Victorian re-enactment! I've got no sympathy for anyone signing this petition - they can find other ways to look like plonkers, without needing to risk their heads.

 

[Cortez]

Top hats make people look like absolute plonkers.... it's a sport not a Victorian re-enactment! I've got no sympathy for anyone signing this petition - they can find other ways to look like plonkers, without needing to risk their heads.

In your opinion....the top hat goes with the rest of the gettup (and yes, it's 19 century formal wear, just like what orchestras tog out in). Having spent a lot of my working life with horses wearing historical clothing I can't really get onside with your objection here.

Maybe this is something in the American part of me, but I was deeply saddened to see Carl Hester's name on this list.

Now, to clarify, I am 49 years old. I have liked having a say in how I do things in my adult life for a long time. But I do understand that when I wish to partake of a competition on someone else's organization/location that I am expected to play by their rules.

I thought, and maybe it was just how I interpreted it, that Carl was one who understood the helmet usefulness, especially given his proximity on a daily basis to CD. Now, I get it. He absolutely has a right to his own opinions, and he's a brilliant rider regardless, but it seriously depressed me to see his name on this list.

Em

Why depressed? I know lots of top level riders who don't wear helmets at home, and would prefer to retain the top hat for competition, and lots with the other opinion. It's their choice what they do, doesn't really affect me either way.

 

[BunnyDog]

In your opinion....the top hat goes with the rest of the gettup (and yes, it's 19 century formal wear, just like what orchestras tog out in). Having spent a lot of my working life with horses wearing historical clothing I can't really get onside with your objection here.


Why depressed? I know lots of top level riders who don't wear helmets at home, and would prefer to retain the top hat for competition, and lots with the other opinion. It's their choice what they do, doesn't really affect me either way.

Because a top level rider is often someone that people look up to or assign respect to given their prowess and accomplishments.

I personally hope that those in positions like these would take seriously the "side effects" of being in that position. Other people, children, riders and the like may be partaking in some forms of idol worship and even imitation of you. As such I would help remember to promote the best practices for others by holding myself to a higher standard. Not wearing the safest helmet may mean nothing to the rider themselves, but think of the row you might be causing with the 12 yr old kid who has stolen their grandparents old bowler or costume top hat in an attempt to 'be like you' and then has a conflicts with the adults trying to keep them as safe as possible. Or worse an accident happens.

Little girls imitating Charlotte Dujardin, Alison Springer and other safety proponents are at least wearing sparkly Charles Owen helmets.

My point is that you don't know where your individuality ends and imitation (and consequences) begins sometimes.

Em

 

[Cob Life]

OMG this!! Off topic slightly as it's not a safety issue, but I hate formal traditional riding wear. All others sports have technical performance wear while we truss ourselves up in jackets and stocks/ties, and wear WHITE. When eventing in March in driving rain, waterproofs were not allowed and when eventing in sweltering sun in August, jackets were still compulsory. I'd love to see a move away from poncy clothes to practical, weather proof, performance wear across all equestrian disciplines. But I know others love the dressing up part of it so I am not sure if that would ever happen. I'd get rid of plaiting too. I can see the point for showing but not in competition. It's a PITA, probably hurts when being done and could restrict the horses neck in jumping phases. So why bother with it at all.

I’m all for getting rid of plaiting! ( mainly as I can’t plait for toffee!)Has anyone seen the trainer boots? They’re on muddymahem / buck off banter Instagram. I love them


as for hats: I’m never going to ride at a level where this is going to affect me. I do think the top hats look very smart but so do modern riding hats!

 

[milliepops]

i'm a right old fangled one, i hate the activity of plaiting but I love the way it looks, I enjoy wearing old stylee T & T, I like traditional shiny leather boots, my normal show hat is a velvet

I see the point of the "role model" argument, but you aren't allowed to wear anything other than a safety hat up until advanced so all the role models riding younger horses are already leading by example. at the levels most relatable to your average young person.

 

[Mule]

I’m all for getting rid of plaiting! ( mainly as I can’t plait for toffee!)Has anyone seen the trainer boots? They’re on muddymahem / buck off banter Instagram. I love them


as for hats: I’m never going to ride at a level where this is going to affect me. I do think the top hats look very smart but so do modern riding hats!

I'm the same. The top hat or helmet choice in no way effects me

 

[ester]

and Carl has definitely worn a proper hat recently? I'm not imagining that?

The tall ones look particularly daft to me

 

[conniegirl]

at the levels most relatable to your average young person.

But not at the level most SEEN by the average young person as it is pretty much only GP that gets shown on TV

 

[milliepops]

and Carl has definitely worn a proper hat recently? I'm not imagining that?

The tall ones look particularly daft to me

yeah he wears a proper hat quite often.

WFP for example?! the tallest hat on the tallest man!