Dressage The big debate- top hats vs helmets for fei dressage

yup!
I do remember Harry saying his was his Dad's and I do get that probably a fair number have been passed down/are sentimental but there is something comical about tall top hat and tails in the driving english rain
 
well that's a point actually, presumably there will be no more enormously tall people with enormously tall hats at CCIs now either.
 
Attitudes have changed.

I was attracted to hunting and eventing because of the danger; the thrill of beating the odds, the adrenaline rush, the making sure that you were one step ahead in your training and your fitness. The acceptance that there may be an element of luck involved. Does this attitude no longer exist? It seems not and that makes me sad.

Personally, I think that top hats (and bowler hats) in the hunting field look classical and classy.
I also remember the ecstasy at wearing top hat and tails eventing for the first time ever. :)

If someone wants to wear a helmet, an airbag, a back protector and an 'oh shit holy moley grab strap' then that's their choice and fine, but not my choice.

Eliminate the danger/unpredictability from riding horses and I'll seek something else.
 
gunnergundog said:
Attitudes have changed.

I was attracted to hunting and eventing because of the danger; the thrill of beating the odds, the adrenaline rush, the making sure that you were one step ahead in your training and your fitness. The acceptance that there may be an element of luck involved. Does this attitude no longer exist? It seems not and that makes me sad.

Personally, I think that top hats (and bowler hats) in the hunting field look classical and classy.

.....

If someone wants to wear a helmet, an airbag, a back protector and an 'oh shit holy moley grab strap' then that's their choice and fine, but not my choice.

Eliminate the danger/unpredictability from riding horses and I'll seek something else.
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I could have written this word for word when I was a few years younger.
 
conniegirl said:
And what about the family of the injured person, a partner who has to give up thier life/career to care for someone with major brain damage? Children who lose a parent either due to severe brain damage or death? Parents who lose thier child?

dieing or suffering a major brain injury does not just effect the person choosing not to wear a hat.
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That is the thought process that the adult who is making the decision should be having. It’s exactly why I said ‘it’s not a difficult decision to make’ as IMO I would never consider not wearing one - but each to their own.
 
ycbm said:
I could have written this word for word when I was a few years younger.
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Heck! I THINK that you are a few years younger than I??? Am 72.

AShetlandBitMeOnce said:
That is the thought process that the adult who is making the decision should be having. It’s exactly why I said ‘it’s not a difficult decision to make’ as IMO I would never consider not wearing one - but each to their own.
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!
Not everyone has dependents! No parents, partners, siblings or dependents here. Okay....dogs and horses but there are contingency plans/will in place to cater for.

I have one life and I intend to live it.....what is left of it!
 
conniegirl said:
And what about the family of the injured person, a partner who has to give up thier life/career to care for someone with major brain damage? Children who lose a parent either due to severe brain damage or death? Parents who lose thier child?

dieing or suffering a major brain injury does not just effect the person choosing not to wear a hat.
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I don't feel I owe it to any other person not to die, death is part of life. I would not want a situation where anyone I care about HAS to look after me. But if that is a possibility, then I would need to know how many people are alive but profoundly disabled because they wore a hat, which just about saved their life. Compared with how many are not disabled who would have been if they had not worn a hat. I don't know if that research has been done.

I wear a hat, and an air jacket, but I think it should be every capable adult individual's choice.


PS GGD, unfortunately I've lost my mad risk taker genes and I miss them badly! Losing the local drag hunt was a big blow.
 
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There is individual choice, and then there is the being bound by a competition/event/championship/international approval body who dictates the rules.

Those rules are in place not just for health and safety, risk assessments, insurance, but also wider considerations such as promotion, looks, accessability. If anyone thinks equestrianism is safe on the Olympic stage then think again. The last thing any of us need in the wider industry, whether amateurs or pros, is a posh chap from Eton continuing to bob around in a top hat.


Re the white/beige breeches - it's so a judge who may be sat 65m away can actually see what position your leg is in ;) Try assessing black breeches on a black saddle in horizontal rain at 4pm on a winter's day...
 
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Well, originally the light colour breeches were to prove you were posh enough to have someone else clean your clothes for you, and if we were inventing the sport from scratch now I'm pretty sure if we wanted contrast then 'any bright contrasting colour' would be the rule.
 
or just a line like the military uniform guys sometimes have? (not an expert on various countries military uniforms)

They'd find it harder if I had by waterproof trousers one :p
 
ycbm said:
Well, originally the light colour breeches were to prove you were posh enough to have someone else clean your clothes for you, and if we were inventing the sport from scratch now I'm pretty sure if we wanted contrast then 'any bright contrasting colour' would be the rule.
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Or there just wasn't much choice materials wise...
 
I had to laugh a few years back. The drag emailed and asked what would make more people come out? I said being allowed to wear waterproofs. The result? "It's not traditional"

I sent them back a quote by a famous hunter from the 1800s saying that waterproof clothing was essential. They ignored that.


.
 
gunnergundog said:
Eliminate the danger/unpredictability from riding horses and I'll seek something else.
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It’ll never be possible to do that. You can manage the risk to some extent, with sensible helmets winning over decorative ornamental hats for instance, but never eliminate the risk.

Horses, even the well trained and ridden ones, will always be unpredictable to some extent. You can still crack on and get the adrenaline thrill whilst wearing a helmet :).
 
TPO said:
Was the reason not more that they enabled the person to get hit more and therefore increase the risk of CTE?

i.e. without a head guard you'd get knocked out if a big punch landed; with a head guard you could "tolerate" more big punches and damage that causes more issues in the long term.

That's why mma are lighter gloves too as heavier gloves mean softer, relatively speaking, blows and more damage can be taken

All of it is irrelevant surely. It's not whether you should or shouldn't wear hats, if you are less risk adverse if wearing safety gear or your personal choice outside of competition. A ruling body has passed a rule that to participate in their competitions you must do X, Y and Z and wear A, B and C. If you don't want to follow their rules then you cant play their games. Simple

I could understand the uproar if it was some ridiculous rule that could have a negative impact on performance etc but its literally swapping a top hat for a safety hat. How up yourself so you have to be to start a petition against something like this? It shouldn't have to wait until things are going wrong to look at preventive measures, it should be this foresight keeping people safe, reducing risk and ultimately saving lives.
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'One of the reasons,' I didn't want to start droning on about boxing in here ;) There was also an argument for impaired peripheral vision with them on (I agreed with that, always got in the blimmin way).

I think it's personal choice as to whether you wear a top hat or helmet, both in competition and at home.

Way back when I was a working pupil, it was dead cool to not wear a hat when you were flatwork schooling, but we always did for jumping and usually for hacking. How times have changed... I'll never be good enough to wear a top hat in dressage but I wear one at least once a year when doing ceremonial stuff (i.e riding up the Royal Mile)
 
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ycbm said:
I had to laugh a few years back. The drag emailed and asked what would make more people come out? I said being allowed to wear waterproofs. The result? "It's not traditional"

I sent them back a quote by a famous hunter from the 1800s saying that waterproof clothing was essential. They ignored that.


.
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Nobody with any sense hunts in Ireland without waterproofs!!
 
Tiddlypom said:
Top hats definitely don’t suit those riders with nodding head syndrome :D.
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Ah, I get it now - the references to the ludicrous very tall top hats and the above ^^^ must be referring to eventing dressage. Modern dressage competitions have used the short toppers for at least the last 25 - 30 years.
 
Someone once asked if I was in mufty hunting.
It wasn't a lawn meet, I'd hacked there in the rain and would have to hack home, in addition I hadn't actually managed to squeeze back in the hunt coat from the previous year.
I had washed specially my smart, navy blue, mountain horse jacket which frankly was much more practical attire for an enjoyable day ahead than my hunt coat would have been :p and cost more than my hunt coat did :p

I do think more people would go if winter comfort was higher on the agenda.
 
I’m pro helmet but also pro choice.

We’ve all seen freak slips and trips that result in crashing falls from horses just performing basic exercise. So why don’t vaulters etc have to wear helmets?...

For me it’s all rather contradictory. I do think it should be necessary to wear one when not in the ring as really that’s about the problems that arise from variables outside your control as a rider.
 
Its actually to do with leather - all riding breeches originally were made of buckskin and you wouldn't tan them in the same way as Sedgewick leather for instance because it would ruin them with the tannin. If you had cheaper breeches because you were a hunter/farmer then they would be made of harder leather. Breeches then moved into Twill and the natural colour for this fabric is buff.
 
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