The breeding and selling of banned breeds

AShetlandBitMeOnce

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How awful, I am not in favour of banning any breed but I do think there should be licenses for owning certain breeds eg: a malinois.

What on earth was a breeder doing selling a dog of that size and power, who doesn't like other dogs which would have been likely either anxious, territorial or possesive in origin, to a family with a child and who have children visiting..
 

bonny

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I don’t think it’s about families or not rehoming dogs like that to houses where children visit, that dog just shouldn’t have existed. He must have siblings out there somewhere and other relatives. We need to toughen up the law and get rid of them and stop all the excuses.
 

Clodagh

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In the light of the awful Wales tradgedy, what are peoples feelings now?

I personally feel these dogs have no place in our society.

I do a lot of camping and many campsites do not allow certain breeds. I presume this is due to their insurance and the increased risk of liability these breeds pose.
I totally agree with you. You don’t need to own a dog designed and bred to do serious damage, they do not need to exist.
Mastiffs and so on are further removed from the fighting strains, pit bulls are not.
 

AShetlandBitMeOnce

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I am a little 'jury out' on the destruction of pitbulls, I don't disagree with the sentiment of what's being said, to own a fighting breed is unnecessary, but I do know that the way the USA (not sure about here) distinguish between staffies and Pits are by size, so a lovely family oriented staffie could be destroyed just because it's 2cm longer than it should be.

If you're then banning breeds which are bred to fight and have attributes that lend themselves to this, you would have to look at banning German Shepherds which are used as protection dogs due to drive & power - Cane Corso, equally powerful, American Bulldogs, Akitas (which I don't think a normal household should need to own either) and so on and so forth.. Where do you draw the line?
 

bonny

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I am a little 'jury out' on the destruction of pitbulls, I don't disagree with the sentiment of what's being said, to own a fighting breed is unnecessary, but I do know that the way the USA (not sure about here) distinguish between staffies and Pits are by size, so a lovely family oriented staffie could be destroyed just because it's 2cm longer than it should be.

If you're then banning breeds which are bred to fight and have attributes that lend themselves to this, you would have to look at banning German Shepherds which are used as protection dogs due to drive & power - Cane Corso, equally powerful, American Bulldogs, Akitas (which I don't think a normal household should need to own either) and so on and so forth.. Where do you draw the line?
Can anybody look at the picture of that dog that killed Jack and justify having dogs like that in our midst ? Just get rid of them all and stop with the excuses.
 

Clodagh

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I am a little 'jury out' on the destruction of pitbulls, I don't disagree with the sentiment of what's being said, to own a fighting breed is unnecessary, but I do know that the way the USA (not sure about here) distinguish between staffies and Pits are by size, so a lovely family oriented staffie could be destroyed just because it's 2cm longer than it should be.

If you're then banning breeds which are bred to fight and have attributes that lend themselves to this, you would have to look at banning German Shepherds which are used as protection dogs due to drive & power - Cane Corso, equally powerful, American Bulldogs, Akitas (which I don't think a normal household should need to own either) and so on and so forth.. Where do you draw the line?
It is a hard one, but as the idiots seek the latest most powerful thing there needs to be some control measures. I lived in Australia and met lovely pit bulls, the banning of them over here has possibly made them more desirabe, because tbh if you were not an idiot you wouldn't want a banned breed anyway.
 

AShetlandBitMeOnce

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Can anybody look at the picture of that dog that killed Jack and justify having dogs like that in our midst ? Just get rid of them all and stop with the excuses.

I wouldn't look at a dog and make any assumptions at all, you're view on judging dogs by appearance is a very short sighted and dangerous one. I have met many more dangerous chihuahua's than I have bulldog for example.

How many poster on here have JRT's? Put this image next to that article and would you say the same things about all JRT's? Or this labrador?
1636629213886.png1636629242765.png


It is a hard one, but as the idiots seek the latest most powerful thing there needs to be some control measures. I lived in Australia and met lovely pit bulls, the banning of them over here has possibly made them more desirabe, because tbh if you were not an idiot you wouldn't want a banned breed anyway.

Completely agree, I think perhaps the solution is in controlling (read: policing heavily!) the pool of owners & breeders and thus the suitability of dog to the owner. However in real life, despite being doable, it will always be a no go due to the huge amount of funding that would be required to ste up anything close to achieving as such.
 

bonny

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I wouldn't look at a dog and make any assumptions at all, you're view on judging dogs by appearance is a very short sighted and dangerous one. I have met many more dangerous chihuahua's than I have bulldog for example.

How many poster on here have JRT's? Put this image next to that article and would you say the same things about all JRT's? Or this labrador?
View attachment 82555View attachment 82556




Completely agree, I think perhaps the solution is in controlling (read: policing heavily!) the pool of owners & breeders and thus the suitability of dog to the owner. However in real life, despite being doable, it will always be a no go due to the huge amount of funding that would be required to ste up anything close to achieving as such.
That’s a ridiculous comparison, all dogs growl, pit bulls kill people and that dog, already named Beast, was a liability waiting to happen. I can’t understand how or why anyone can want them in our neighbourhoods.
 

Cortez

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That’s a ridiculous comparison, all dogs growl, pit bulls kill people and that dog, already named Beast, was a liability waiting to happen. I can’t understand how or why anyone can want them in our neighbourhoods.
Well obviously some people DO want them, and that is actually the problem that needs to be addressed. I agree with you in that there is absolutely no need to own any of these sorts of dogs (what I would class as fighting dogs or attack dogs), but there is a desire from some people. I have met some lovely pit bulls, akitas, cane de corsos, dogos argentinos, etc., but I wish that they were not allowed. I thought that was what the prohibited breeds legislation was all about? Is it not enforced?

P.S. terriers are the most aggressive little buggers ever, but they are unlikely to kill anyone.
 

bonny

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Well obviously some people DO want them, and that is actually the problem that needs to be addressed. I agree with you in that there is absolutely no need to own any of these sorts of dogs (what I would class as fighting dogs or attack dogs), but there is a desire from some people. I have met some lovely pit bulls, akitas, cane de corsos, dogos argentinos, etc., but I wish that they were not allowed. I thought that was what the prohibited breeds legislation was all about? Is it not enforced?

P.S. terriers are the most aggressive little buggers ever, but they are unlikely to kill anyone.
People want all sorts of dangerous weapons but we have laws to limit them in our communities, the dangerous dog law was hopeless and i think we should stop ignoring the problem, just seize these dogs and get rid of them. Dogs breed quickly, the numbers are rising and the only way to stop them is to mean it. It would help considerably if others stopped defending them, inevitably they aren’t living next door to the beast.
 

AmyMay

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That’s a ridiculous comparison, all dogs growl, pit bulls kill people and [bold]that dog, already named Beast, was a liability waiting to happen. [/bold] I can’t understand how or why anyone can want them in our neighbourhoods.

That dog was a liability. Whilst I agree that there are certain breeds that require specialist handling and should never be in a domestic home, or with a novice handler, I think it’s wrong to attach labels per se.

A friend (in the US) had always had Pits, and has never had an issue. Any dog though, with a propensity for aggression needs to be accommodated and handled properly.
 
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AShetlandBitMeOnce

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That’s a ridiculous comparison, all dogs growl, pit bulls kill people and that dog, already named Beast, was a liability waiting to happen. I can’t understand how or why anyone can want them in our neighbourhoods.

I am not disregarding the fact that Pits and Bully breeds dominate the statistics - due to their genetic ability and inadequate ownership rather than their overall disposition IMO, but do we kill off the following breeds that have resulted in human death from dog attack:
Barbara Williams - Neopolitan Mastiff
Harry Harper - JRT Cross
Eliza-Mae Mullane - Malamute
Reggis Young - Lakeland Terrier Cross
Ryan Busa - GSD
Elon Jase Ellis-Joynes - Chow Chow
Irene Collins - GSD Police Dog

I also include below an article based on a report put together by Animal Friends saying that the breed most likely to bite is the Labrador.. do we kill those too?
https://www.doglistener.tv/2016/08/breed-most-likely-to-bite/


P.S. terriers are the most aggressive little buggers ever, but they are unlikely to kill anyone.

They could if it were a child or a baby/toddler and they had access to the wrist or throat.. I know it's up the parents in that instance, but any dog is capable should they have aggressive tendancies.

I don't disagree with the sentiment, but to destroy any animal based purely on it's breeding or appearance just doesn't sit well with me.
 

bonny

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That dog was a liability. Whilst I agree that there are certain breeds that require specialist handling and should never be in a domestic home, or with a novice handler, I think it’s wrong to attach labels per se.

A friend (in the US) had always had Pits, and has never had an issue. Any dog though, with a propensity for aggression) needs to be accommodated and handled properly.
And so it carries on ....
 

Cortez

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I am not disregarding the fact that Pits and Bully breeds dominate the statistics - due to their genetic ability and inadequate ownership rather than their overall disposition IMO, but do we kill off the following breeds that have resulted in human death from dog attack:
Barbara Williams - Neopolitan Mastiff
Harry Harper - JRT Cross
Eliza-Mae Mullane - Malamute
Reggis Young - Lakeland Terrier Cross
Ryan Busa - GSD
Elon Jase Ellis-Joynes - Chow Chow
Irene Collins - GSD Police Dog

I also include below an article based on a report put together by Animal Friends saying that the breed most likely to bite is the Labrador.. do we kill those too?
https://www.doglistener.tv/2016/08/breed-most-likely-to-bite/




They could if it were a child or a baby/toddler and they had access to the wrist or throat.. I know it's up the parents in that instance, but any dog is capable should they have aggressive tendancies.

I don't disagree with the sentiment, but to destroy any animal based purely on it's breeding or appearance just doesn't sit well with me.
Can anyone explain to me why they feel it is justifiable to own a dog that has a strong genetic propensity for aggression? I know that they can be lovable, goofy characters and all that, but so can other breeds that are less likely to bite with intent, and have the musculature and jaw shape to make it count.

The statistic re Labradors doesn't surprise me; they are possibly the most common dog breed in the UK.
 

TPO

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I don't know what to Google but I'm sure I've read that terriers have killed the most humans. The "squeaking" of small babies is akin to terrier prey.

I had a friend who owned an akita and it terrified me. I grew up around dogs from birth and have experienced of all sizes and a variety of breeds. That akita made my blood run cold. I see a slight older lady walking one regularly and seen it lock onto other dogs that are quite a distance away. If it decided to go she wouldn't be able to stop it.

I've seen (on social media) lots of goofy soft lumps that are pitbulls but I've never seen a nice friendly looking akita!
 

bonny

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I don't know what to Google but I'm sure I've read that terriers have killed the most humans. The "squeaking" of small babies is akin to terrier prey.

I had a friend who owned an akita and it terrified me. I grew up around dogs from birth and have experienced of all sizes and a variety of breeds. That akita made my blood run cold. I see a slight older lady walking one regularly and seen it lock onto other dogs that are quite a distance away. If it decided to go she wouldn't be able to stop it.

I've seen (on social media) lots of goofy soft lumps that are pitbulls but I've never seen a nice friendly looking akita!
There are two deaths of babies by terriers and all the other fatal attacks are by pit bulls, staffies, Rottweilers etc.
 

bonny

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What exactly? I’m just trying to have a balanced discussion….
Because as long as people defend pit bulls and go on about the lovely ones that they know others will keep breeding them. There seems to be a lucrative market for what’s called American Bullie XL, there is plenty of ads on gumtree etc for them, if you’ve got the thousands of pounds to purchase one. There should be no discussion about pit bulls in my opinion, the numbers are increasing, they are getting bigger and it won’t be long before someone else is mauled by one.
 

AmyMay

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Because as long as people defend pit bulls and go on about the lovely ones that they know others will keep breeding them. There seems to be a lucrative market for what’s called American Bullie XL, there is plenty of ads on gumtree etc for them, if you’ve got the thousands of pounds to purchase one. There should be no discussion about pit bulls in my opinion, the numbers are increasing, they are getting bigger and it won’t be long before someone else is mauled by one.

I’m not defending them. Simply pointing out that a friend in the US has them. Would I want one? No. Would I want any Mastiff breed? No. Certain breeds work in certain environments, some (very obviously) don’t.
 

bonny

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Why ? No one is disputing that small dogs can and have killed babies but it’s a bit desperate if you are using a 20 year old case in America. All the cases of children and adults being mauled to death are by dogs of a certain type. The argument should be do we want dangerous dogs living in our midst and I don’t think many people would include dachshunds in that list.
 

AShetlandBitMeOnce

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Why ? No one is disputing that small dogs can and have killed babies but it’s a bit desperate if you are using a 20 year old case in America. All the cases of children and adults being mauled to death are by dogs of a certain type. The argument should be do we want dangerous dogs living in our midst and I don’t think many people would include dachshunds in that list.

I think you are undemrining your own point by being completely closed off to the other breeds being genetically predisposed to aggression and to having deaths caused by them, because they don't suit your anti pitbull cause.
Do we kill them all, or do we just kill this one breed... I have named lots of other breeds that would have to go if we are going by your reasoning alone.
 

skinnydipper

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Why ? No one is disputing that small dogs can and have killed babies but it’s a bit desperate if you are using a 20 year old case in America. All the cases of children and adults being mauled to death are by dogs of a certain type. The argument should be do we want dangerous dogs living in our midst and I don’t think many people would include dachshunds in that list.


But they are not all being mauled and killed by a certain type, are they?
 

meleeka

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Because as long as people defend pit bulls and go on about the lovely ones that they know others will keep breeding them. There seems to be a lucrative market for what’s called American Bullie XL, there is plenty of ads on gumtree etc for them, if you’ve got the thousands of pounds to purchase one. There should be no discussion about pit bulls in my opinion, the numbers are increasing, they are getting bigger and it won’t be long before someone else is mauled by one.

I don’t think the majority of people
who own Pitbulls in this country do so because they hear about their lovely characters. I think the fact that they are banned and the law isn’t enforced makes them more attractive to the sort of people who shouldn’t own them and those sort of people would be very disappointed by a docile dog.

I can’t work out why anyone would choose a breed that comes with the power and potential to kill a person. I have a German Shepherd, not because I wanted one , but MIL died and the dog had to go somewhere. Mine is very docile, but the amount of them with issues is worrying. There’s a fb behaviour page which has dogs with anxiety/fear/aggression issues daily. They just seem quite complex, highly strung dogs than other breeds. I do have to be more aware with mine, just because of her breed and peoples perception of her and I just think how much easier my JRT, who loves all dogs and people and is a pleasure to take anywhere, is.
 

AShetlandBitMeOnce

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Can anyone explain to me why they feel it is justifiable to own a dog that has a strong genetic propensity for aggression?

I have no answer for this, of course as there isn't one other than in specific cases that won't be normal population eg: personal protection dogs, police dogs, in some way livestock guardians. However, I still can't support the cull of an entire breeds, or really if we are going based on their genetics potentially 15+ breeds, just because humas are weaponising them either intentionally or through ignorance.

There are lots of 17hh Warmblood stallions that are genetically bred to be sharp physically, and incidentally in personality, as it often comes hand in hand with talent; however do we kill off all of those just because in a lot of humans would be dangerous in posession of one? Or we we try and enforce that not every Tom, Dick & Harry have one..
 

bonny

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I have no answer for this, of course as there isn't one other than in specific cases that won't be normal population eg: personal protection dogs, police dogs, in some way livestock guardians. However, I still can't support the cull of an entire breeds, or really if we are going based on their genetics potentially 15+ breeds, just because humas are weaponising them either intentionally or through ignorance.

There are lots of 17hh Warmblood stallions that are genetically bred to be sharp physically, and incidentally in personality, as it often comes hand in hand with talent; however do we kill off all of those just because in a lot of humans would be dangerous in posession of one? Or we we try and enforce that not every Tom, Dick & Harry have one..
I don’t see many warmblood stallions in the street and I suspect if one was it wouldn’t end well for the horse. Slightly off tangent argument !
 
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