The breeding and selling of banned breeds

[Cortez]

Just found a list of fatal dog attacks and there are more than two terriers on it.

Terriers were bred to be "game" and many are feisty little sh1ts (I swore I'd never have another after my much-loved JRT died at a great age). The most aggressive dog, and worst dog bite I've ever had, came from a toy poodle, and I'm pretty sure you could find cases of people being killed by them too. That's not the point though, is it? The point is that certain breeds have been developed precisely because they are inclined to be aggressive and capable of fighting. What is the justification for having a dog of this type? I mean other than "because I want one", for whatever reason?

 

[Cortez]

I have no answer for this, of course as there isn't one other than in specific cases that won't be normal population eg: personal protection dogs, police dogs, in some way livestock guardians. However, I still can't support the cull of an entire breeds, or really if we are going based on their genetics potentially 15+ breeds, just because humas are weaponising them either intentionally or through ignorance.

There are lots of 17hh Warmblood stallions that are genetically bred to be sharp physically, and incidentally in personality, as it often comes hand in hand with talent; however do we kill off all of those just because in a lot of humans would be dangerous in posession of one? Or we we try and enforce that not every Tom, Dick & Harry have one..

Warmblood horses are not being bred because they are aggressive though are they?

 

[Ambers Echo]

Going backl to the OP's dilemma - if he/she is still reading - the decision to not inform seemed based on not wanting gthe dogs to suffer for human failings. But people who buy dogs marketed in that way are not going to want loyal family pets. They want fighting dogs. I can't see that these dogs have a particularly positive future, quite apartf rom the risk they pose to the public. So I think I'd report.

 

[bonny]

Going backl to the OP's dilemma - if he/she is still reading - the decision to not inform seemed based on not wanting gthe dogs to suffer for human failings. But people who buy dogs marketed in that way are not going to want loyal family pets. They want fighting dogs. I can't see that these dogs have a particularly positive future, quite apartf rom the risk they pose to the public. So I think I'd report.

What’s the point ? People are breeding and selling them openly, they are everywhere and until we decide the risk isnt worth taking then it will continue.

 

[DabDab]

I don't know what to Google but I'm sure I've read that terriers have killed the most humans. The "squeaking" of small babies is akin to terrier prey.

I had a friend who owned an akita and it terrified me. I grew up around dogs from birth and have experienced of all sizes and a variety of breeds. That akita made my blood run cold. I see a slight older lady walking one regularly and seen it lock onto other dogs that are quite a distance away. If it decided to go she wouldn't be able to stop it.

I've seen (on social media) lots of goofy soft lumps that are pitbulls but I've never seen a nice friendly looking akita!

Sure. If you include Staffordshire bull terriers and American pit bull terriers in the terrier category

I agree on the Akitas, there is a coldness to their temperament that there isn't in other breeds I've met.

 

[AmyMay]

What’s the point ? People are breeding and selling them openly, they are everywhere and until we decide the risk isnt worth taking then it will continue.

Ate they?

 

[bonny]

Ate they?

Have a look on gumtree etc

 

[ester]

It's interesting that it sounds like they are going to trace the previous owner and/or breeder too

 

[skinnydipper]

Have a look on gumtree etc

Do you report the ads when you see them?

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Warmblood horses are not being bred because they are aggressive though are they?

My point was more that we wouldn't cull a whole subsection of another breed just because they can be genetically aggressive, which would be an issue if mismanaged - I can see that it would appear as a bit of a tenuous link.

 

[bonny]

Do you report the ads when you see them?

We all know that nothing happens, same as people who report aggressive dogs, or dogs that attack their dogs. The dog that killed Jack had been there for two weeks and had already scared several people. Nothing happens until it’s too late.

 

[AmyMay]

It's interesting that it sounds like they are going to trace the previous owner and/or breeder too

I believe they’ve actually come forward.

 

[bonny]

I believe they’ve actually come forward.

I think most of us have seen the Facebook ad for him.

 

[ester]

I believe they’ve actually come forward.

ah I must have read an older report thanks

 

[TPO]

Sure. If you include Staffordshire bull terriers and American pit bull terriers in the terrier category

I didn't, for the sake of this grouped staffies and bull terriers as "bull"/misc and only counted "typical" terriers like Lakeland and JR as terriers iykwim

 

[TPO]

We all know that nothing happens, same as people who report aggressive dogs, or dogs that attack their dogs. The dog that killed Jack had been there for two weeks and had already scared several people. Nothing happens until it’s too late.

Having read the fatal dog attack article on wiki it does appear to be a common theme that people have altered authorities prior to the fatal attacks.

In one incidence the police returned the pit bull type 1wk prior to it killing someone.

Pitbulls are advertised openly on insta in the UK. I personally haven't seen any cropped ears or fighting type posts/bragging. The dogs in SM pages I've seen have all looked healthy and like friendly pets. I don't know any personally and don't mix with the anyone likely to be involved with illegal breeds so I have no idea.

 

[planete]

All dogs can bite but not all dogs will kill. Same with people, taking a swipe at somebody is very different from going on until somebody is dead. I have lurchers, three of them. One has the instinct to chase and kill and he can be very efficient (lovely soppy dog, has always avoided confrontation with other dogs and adores people). Another one just loves to run after things but would not harm a fly, caught a baby bird once and dropped it immediately unharmed. The last one thinks she would like to kill but has not got a clue. Different dogs, slightly different ancestors, different instincts. A dog that has been bred to have the instinct to be aggressive enough to kill is a liability and as dangerous as a loaded weapon no matter how lovely he can be in the right circumstances. I would definitely report, then you will not wonder "what if..." if one of them attacks somebody one day.

 

[Karran]

Ate they?

Looking at the picture of the dog in question, I can instantly think of 6 different dogs that I see in my nearest park that are EXTREMELY similar in type. Including the 7 month old pup that had a game of chase with Mrs Collie last week.
I asked what breed it was and told American Bully, I don't know whether to believe them or not. The others I choose not to get close to nor engage the owners in conversation.

 

[windand rain]

One bite is one bite too many I personally would have PTS any dog that agressively bit someone. I cannot understand why anyone would take the risk. Temperament in everything is the most important aspets of animals living in domestic situations. Not many people would think it okay to walk a lion/tiger round the streets on a leash although I bet many would like to own one. Any dog that offers to bite aggressively should be seen by a behaviourist with it's owner and it be a legal requirement to PTS if found to be dangerous under the dangerous dogs act. My associate took his dog to be PTS the dog had attacked and bitten several people the vet refused and arranged for a breed rescue to take it

 

[Gloi]

One bite is one bite too many I personally would have PTS any dog that agressively bit someone. I cannot understand why anyone would take the risk. Temperament in everything is the most important aspets of animals living in domestic situations. Not many people would think it okay to walk a lion/tiger round the streets on a leash although I bet many would like to own one. Any dog that offers to bite aggressively should be seen by a behaviourist with it's owner and it be a legal requirement to PTS if found to be dangerous under the dangerous dogs act. My associate took his dog to be PTS the dog had attacked and bitten several people the vet refused and arranged for a breed rescue to take it

That's disgusting on the part of the vet.

 

[Clodagh]

All dogs can bite but not all dogs will kill. Same with people, taking a swipe at somebody is very different from going on until somebody is dead. I have lurchers, three of them. One has the instinct to chase and kill and he can be very efficient (lovely soppy dog, has always avoided confrontation with other dogs and adores people). Another one just loves to run after things but would not harm a fly, caught a baby bird once and dropped it immediately unharmed. The last one thinks she would like to kill but has not got a clue. Different dogs, slightly different ancestors, different instincts. A dog that has been bred to have the instinct to be aggressive enough to kill is a liability and as dangerous as a loaded weapon no matter how lovely he can be in the right circumstances. I would definitely report, then you will not wonder "what if..." if one of them attacks somebody one day.

This exactly. These dogs are as dangerous as a loaded shotgun.
Have their been less serious dog attacks a year since controls were put in place? (Bans). Or has it made no difference?

 

[splashgirl45]

you have to wonder why a family with a young boy have bought a 15 month old pit bull type . hardly the action of a normal family... i dont know what the answer is, maybe make it more difficult to buy a dog? i could go out tomorrow and buy a large powerful dog which would be ridiculous as i am a 75 yr old female with arthritis and dodgy hips, who is not that strong any more.. but there is no legislation to stop me but i am sensible and now have tiny terriers who i know i can manage in the unlikely event they tried to savage someone..there is no way i could manage the dog in question .. that dog should not have been alone with children. when my nieces were younger they were never left alone with any dogs no matter how good tempered they were, you just cant take a chance as they all have the potential to attack..

 

[fankino04]

I think in a world where humans can't be trusted to think things through and make sensible decisions, instead believing they are entitled to have whatever they want just because, it would probably be sensible to allow some of the breeds with the capacity to cause the most damage to be allowed to die out. I don't think seizing family pets who fit a type and have been assessed as having good temperaments and threatening to PTS is right though, I think breeding certain breeds should be illegal and the breeders prosecuted very strongly so the risk outweighs the financial rewards. How feasible this is I don't know.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Why ? No one is disputing that small dogs can and have killed babies but it’s a bit desperate if you are using a 20 year old case in America. All the cases of children and adults being mauled to death are by dogs of a certain type. The argument should be do we want dangerous dogs living in our midst and I don’t think many people would include dachshunds in that list.

Having spent the day with a Dachshund breeder recently, I learnt a bit about the breed. The breeders view was they are often no good with children and the breeder won't sell to families with children under 12.

 

[Karran]

I was thinking a bit more about this last night. I met a lady at a fete in the summer when we were holding a flyball demo. She bought her dog up to us, it was a lovely obedient waggy thing with one of those i'm friendly collars, it politely said hello to Mrs Spaniel and then me and then sat by owner's side, so I asked why it was muzzled and she openly admitted it was a pit bull (I didn't ask how she acquired it). She expressed some sadness about how she'd love for it to have a go at our demo lane but wasn't allowed to ever take the muzzle off in public.

Comparing that to the man I saw this morning with a brown/white Bitch and a brown dog who was struggling to control them, or the lady with a black and tan cropped earred one that got knocked over and dragged by her dog a few weeks back.
Both owners didn't have a muzzle on their dogs, didn't have any control and quite frankly scare me. I don't know enough about Bull type breeds to say one way or another what they are or that of the other similar looking dogs I see.

I would have no issues with Woman 1 and the way she kept her dog. Bull breeds are definitely not on my radar as a breed i'd want but she clearly put work into her dog. The other two examples, I do. And I would report them if I had any idea where they live. It's not the dogs fault that they have useless owners and I realise what fate the dogs would have but the risk in my eyes is too great.

 

[dunthing]

There is another side to breeding fighting dogs. "Normal" family dogs are sometimes stolen and used as bait dogs. The thought of that is too awful to comtemplate. I really don't think there is a valid reason for owning any dog that's capable of fighting or killing a person or another dog deliberately.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

The thought of that is too awful to comtemplate. I really don't think there is a valid reason for owning any dog that's capable of fighting or killing a person or another dog deliberately.

That's all (of size) dogs though is it not? I know the breed in question have a biological advantage, but I have no doubt that if two labradors for example were intend on taking me down to kill me, there isn't a whole lot I could do about it.

 

[Clodagh]

That's all (of size) dogs though is it not? I know the breed in question have a biological advantage, but I have no doubt that if two labradors for example were intend on taking me down to kill me, there isn't a whole lot I could do about it.

It’s also unlikely. Labradors may have bitten the most people but they are not bred to hold on at all cost.

 

[AmyMay]

There is another side to breeding fighting dogs. "Normal" family dogs are sometimes stolen and used as bait dogs. The thought of that is too awful to comtemplate. I really don't think there is a valid reason for owning any dog that's capable of fighting or killing a person or another dog deliberately.

So the Sharpei’s I met yesterday would be ‘out’ then…. (Although to be honest that would be a definite ? from me).

 

[Cortez]

That's all (of size) dogs though is it not? I know the breed in question have a biological advantage, but I have no doubt that if two labradors for example were intend on taking me down to kill me, there isn't a whole lot I could do about it.

The whole point though is that Labradors are not bred with the intent of them killing....well, anything. Their inbred instincts have been accentuated to retrieve and specifically NOT to kill, whereas the instincts and physical attributes of bull breeds, guarding breeds and attack breeds are what they are.