The coronation carriage, isn't this a bit excessive?

[SEL]

Well I had a great weekend

Managed a very wet ride on Saturday morning before deciding ride #2 wasn't happening because my knickers were soaked so went home and watched the coronation with a hot coffee and a biscuit (or two). I'm a military child so always enjoy watching our armed forces and thought they did a fabulous job. Shame about the fly past though. Went out in the evening to a french restaurant where the very french owner was wishing everyone a happy coronation day and had bunting and flags everywhere.

I'm afraid Sunday was too nice a day to join in the tea party held down the road and I had ponies to ride.

Monday we went to our garden centre in typical bank holiday fashion and it was bursting at the seams. She said they were quiet on Saturday but no more so than any other weekend when it was lashing it down. I think any business who felt they lost out on Saturday would have made it up and more on Sunday / Monday if they were open.

Sooooo much moaning on this thread!

 

[Honey08]

I’m generally pro royalty. I worked for an airline for decades and have seen the tourists coming in to see the monarchy and displays. They loved to talk about the royals (even the negative stuff). Plus I love the pomp and circumstance. Ive watched many ceremonies in many countries, and we really do do it best. Without all that I really don’t see what people would visit for, we haven’t much to offer without that imo.

From a retail side, my teeny tiny coffee trailer has seen a little increased takings due to some themed specials I put on and the decorations /games I did. But not as much as the weekend before. The weather wasn’t on my side this week, and a lot of people went to street parties or events. I also think it was badly timed. Too close to the other bank holidays in May, it would have been better in mid June imo (perhaps they chose it because we’ve had such lovely springs over the last few years). But as it was, people were almost “bank holidayed out” by the end of the weekend!

 

[ycbm]

Not sure about all businesses being closed on the bank holiday Monday. Because it was raining we took a trip out to thesportsbikeshop, like rideaway/derby house for men it was busy, and so was the shop next door

Also, most retail losses will probably be because the shops were shut, and people will still buy the stuff they want and need, but on another day.

 

[criso]

Not sure about all businesses being closed on the bank holiday Monday. Because it was raining we took a trip out to thesportsbikeshop, like rideaway/derby house for men it was busy, and so was the shop next door

The sort of businesses they are talking about when calculating the cost of a bank holiday are offices, manufacturing etc where the staff get a day off so they close and there's a measurable decrease on GDP.

Other businesses will depend where you are, so a country pub will do good trade on any bank holiday with people out for the day; one in an area dependant on local office workers will lose. I can imagine a cycle shop in a rural area doing really well with people out on a ride on Monday but another in a commuter area may have been closed.

The coffee place I use always closes on bank holidays because it's not worth opening and closed earlier than usual on Saturday because it was dead. It was just the owner, so no costs through wages, just his time, power and some unsold pastries so not a massive loss. The one up the road was closed too so I gave up.

Retail generally reported footfall down 20% overall though that will average out areas that did better near the route.

Footfall down 20% on Coronation Day as retailers suffer | Retail Jeweller

Despite this, MRI Springboard data suggests footfall increased in some key shopping locations, such as London’s Knightsbridge, which saw a 57.7% rise

www.retail-jeweller.com

It's about being balanced and looking at the full picture. It's not a reason not to have holidays, coronations or other events.

Too close to the other bank holidays in May, it would have been better in mid June imo (perhaps they chose it because we’ve had such lovely springs over the last few years). But as it was, people were almost “bank holidayed out” by the end of the weekend!

Plus Easter just before, it's ridiculous, we already have really badly clustered bank holidays in spring, then nothing till the end of August. It's not like there's a historical reason why it happened on that date.

 

[blitznbobs]

I do wonder how many of those horses had a tube of sedalin before they went on parade (and how many riders needed a shot of sloe gin)

 

[cauda equina]

Yes I've wondered if any of the horses get ear plugs

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Yes I've wondered if any of the horses get ear plugs

i would think the need for earplugs and sedalin would render the horse unsuitable for the job. I am sure that the initial assessment would identify those horses.

 

[teapot]

The problem you’ve got is that when it comes to State Ceremonial occasions, you have to factor in not only the time needed to rehearse but other commitments already in a very busy diary. Then practicalities of rehearsing overnight - ideally not in winter uniform (which is worn until clocks go forward), and with a bit more light in the mornings too. HCav go on their usual holiday in July/August etc etc. Operationally there were troops on parade that had flown back to do so - that has a knock on effect too.

The first three Saturdays in June are taken up with Colonel’s Review, Major General’s Review and then Trooping the Colour. I’d imagine Charles may well have wanted to have been formally crowned King before attending the first King’s birthday parade.

There’s also potentially the State Opening of Parliament which is usually around this week, but as yet hasn’t been announced…

It’s effectively start of silly season if you’re a royal or a ceremonial part of the Armed Forces, there was never going to be an great day to choose do the coronation on and the subsequent bank holiday.

 

[blitznbobs]

i would think the need for earplugs and sedalin would render the horse unsuitable for the job. I am sure that the initial assessment would identify those horses.

I am always amazed at the ear plugs effect - i had a horse that was a nutter without them but you could’ve led him down the m6 with them in - i would have thought they all had them in as a sensible precaution

 

[Cortez]

Why are so many people supposing that training horses to do their jobs is an impossible task? Horses are selected, trained and evaluated for precisely this, and all but one or two performed wonderfully well, thus proving that everybody did their job.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I am always amazed at the ear plugs effect - i had a horse that was a nutter without them but you could’ve led him down the m6 with them in - i would have thought they all had them in as a sensible precaution

Whereas I have had several horses that could have been led down the M6 without earplugs, I would have thought they and their ilk would have been better candidates for the Cavalry.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Why are so many people supposing that training horses to do their jobs is an impossible task? Horses are selected, trained and evaluated for precisely this, and all but one or two performed wonderfully well, thus proving that everybody did their job.

It’s really interesting, isn’t it… horses were first ridden about 5500 years ago, and the end of the widespread use of horses as transport was only about 100 years ago. Although in some countries, it continues at a larger scale than here, of course.

So for about 5400 years horses were used for warfare, transport, working the land, hunting. And then within 100 years, we seem to have decided that they are unable to cope with change, dogs, noises, other horses, having an imperfectly fitted tack item, certain feeds.

Is it our management? Have we bred horses for the wrong characteristics over the last 100 years so they are more neurotic? Did we have a higher tolerance for napping then than we do now and were just happier to assume the risk?

Or do we have a higher sensitivity to bad behavior now because we understand it as a stress or pain response, so we don’t make horses work through it as much? Or something else?

Total tangent but something that crosses my mind a lot. I wish we had been collecting data on horse behavior, management and expectations for the last 5500 years. Wouldn’t it be fascinating to look at all the factors across the time.

 

[blitznbobs]

Why are so many people supposing that training horses to do their jobs is an impossible task? Horses are selected, trained and evaluated for precisely this, and all but one or two performed wonderfully well, thus proving that everybody did their job.

Its not that i dont think they can be - but

1) im not sure they are

And

2) sometimes small adaptations can act as insurance

 

[stangs]

It’s really interesting, isn’t it… horses were first ridden about 5500 years ago, and the end of the widespread use of horses as transport was only about 100 years ago. Although in some countries, it continues at a larger scale than here, of course.

So for about 5400 years horses were used for warfare, transport, working the land, hunting. And then within 100 years, we seem to have decided that they are unable to cope with change, dogs, noises, other horses, having an imperfectly fitted tack item, certain feeds.

Is it our management? Have we bred horses for the wrong characteristics over the last 100 years so they are more neurotic? Did we have a higher tolerance for napping then than we do now and were just happier to assume the risk?

Or do we have a higher sensitivity to bad behavior now because we understand it as a stress or pain response, so we don’t make horses work through it as much? Or something else?

Total tangent but something that crosses my mind a lot. I wish we had been collecting data on horse behavior, management and expectations for the last 5500 years. Wouldn’t it be fascinating to look at all the factors across the time.

Not saying that all horses across history were in a state of learned helplessness, but I do reckon learned helplessness has a lot to do with it. Just look at how 'well-behaved' some working equids are, with their spiky bits and poorly fitting harnesses. Of course, change in mindset as to what horses are expected to do must have had a major impact - you can afford to give a horse more slack if your livelihood, or indeed your life, isn't dependent on them doing their jobs - and presumably, in prioritising the breeding of sport horses, we've made having a head of their shoulders less of a requirement. But I still think learned helplessness was a major factor (though the extent of this will have differed between the job a horse was expected to do, not to mention countries and horsemanship styles).

Plus more training opportunities - a horse pulling a cab would get much more exposure to traffic than horses do these days, thanks to the modern state of the roads, not to mention being stabled in the city and so having the chance to get used to the sounds. And perhaps also spending more time with more familiar conspecifics, from whom they could take comfort/confidence (thinking cavalry and hunting in particular) also played a role, whereas now there's a big expectation of horses being able to hack out solo, travel alone, go to competitions surrounded by strangers, etc.

It's certainly an interesting topic!

 

[gallopingby]

One of the problems today is that people, especially in the UK, don’t have the knowledge, experience or time to concentrate on anything that doesn’t produce instant results.
We have lost the old stud grooms who passed their extensive knowledge from one generation to the next
Many people now keep their horses at livery and so no longer have the contact with them they would have had, yard ‘gossip’ seems to proliferate but often without constructive learning or even a basic level of education
Breeding horses is not supported or cost efficient in this country and so most of the bigger studs decided to stop breeding years ago.
Some things are better in terms of advanced vet care, equipment etc but until the horse has a much higher profile sadly we’ll continue spiralling downwards.

 

[criso]

Do we also have less tolerance if it goes wrong in a public situation so we need higher standards. When horses were the main source of transport, people would have been knocked down and even killed by carriages in the way they are by cars today. It would have been an unfortunate part of life.

Can you imagine the headlines if someone was badly injured during the parade?

 

[honetpot]

It’s really interesting, isn’t it… horses were first ridden about 5500 years ago, and the end of the widespread use of horses as transport was only about 100 years ago. Although in some countries, it continues at a larger scale than here, of course.

So for about 5400 years horses were used for warfare, transport, working the land, hunting. And then within 100 years, we seem to have decided that they are unable to cope with change, dogs, noises, other horses, having an imperfectly fitted tack item, certain feeds.

Is it our management? Have we bred horses for the wrong characteristics over the last 100 years so they are more neurotic? Did we have a higher tolerance for napping then than we do now and were just happier to assume the risk?

Or do we have a higher sensitivity to bad behavior now because we understand it as a stress or pain response, so we don’t make horses work through it as much? Or something else?

Total tangent but something that crosses my mind a lot. I wish we had been collecting data on horse behavior, management and expectations for the last 5500 years. Wouldn’t it be fascinating to look at all the factors across the time.

I once bought a Belguin Draft X off a dealer, an import put on the lorry to make up the load, it had a wonky front leg, so was obviously an meat horse, and the comment from the dealer was, they eat the bad ones.
When I was a child there we had very few duds, the dealer would but unseen a lorry of ponies from Ireland, and even teenagers in a couple of weeks could ride up along side lorries on a A road, no lessons, no adult supervision and no safe surface to land on. Any that he bought in that were not suitable to be ridden by us, were never sold as ridden, they went on the meat lorry. I know the is perhaps more heavy traffic today, but we could ride in to town and turn right at the traffic lights with traffic either side, cross roundabouts, the only special training, just a lot of hacking as a group.
The ponies that I bought in for my children were trained to go on the main bus route, go through an underpass, windsurfers lake, stand outside shops, used to skate boards, I took the lead rein pony to see a helicopter landed in the school field, but this all takes time and commitment.

 

[planete]

I have used horses for transport and worked them. I more or less lived with them and we were together up to five solid hours a day. We ended up knowing each other inside out and the horses also ended up knowing their job inside out. There was no learned helplessness but a solidly learnt pattern of behaviour reached through many months of training that kept everybody safe. Pulling timber on sloping broken ground required a clever cooperative horse, not an automaton. The difference with a leisure horse is the amount of time spent on the job. Riding a horse to work also meant the horse was ridden twice a day, five days a week plus often used to go visiting friends at the week end. Any new horse who thought he could have his own way was taken out for enough consecutive hours to realise he had better save his energy for getting from A to B from now on. And if we had ever acquired a horse whose temperament made him unsuitable he would not have been kept.

 

[Cortez]

Many things have changed in the UK in regards to horses. Many competencies have been lost, attitudes have softened and horses are now for the most part pets, not working animals. Horses are commonly over fed, and they no longer do anything approaching work. Riders are, how can I say this....often weak, frightened, just not very good in comparison with the past. And we're now overwhelmingly female whereas for most of history women barely rode or drove at all.

 

[Kaylum]

One of the problems today is that people, especially in the UK, don’t have the knowledge, experience or time to concentrate on anything that doesn’t produce instant results.
We have lost the old stud grooms who passed their extensive knowledge from one generation to the next
Many people now keep their horses at livery and so no longer have the contact with them they would have had, yard ‘gossip’ seems to proliferate but often without constructive learning or even a basic level of education
Breeding horses is not supported or cost efficient in this country and so most of the bigger studs decided to stop breeding years ago.
Some things are better in terms of advanced vet care, equipment etc but until the horse has a much higher profile sadly we’ll continue spiralling downwards.

I agree instead of constantly circling around an arena we took them down into town on a very busy road. Ride and lead or an inhand walk. We always said an hour of getting them out seeing things was so much better for the horses than an hours schooling. We started all our homebred youngsters this way. Rush hour was especially good we stood at the end of the drive coaches, tractors, lorries and they got use to them. You take one sense away from anything and it heightens another one.
Our rides out were a 10 miler most days, when I see fun rides of 6 miles I think that's just a stroll round the block.
Sainsburys carpark was the best. Trolleys and loads of people when we nipped to the cash machine. Always a treat to see horses for everyone.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Many things have changed in the UK in regards to horses. Many competencies have been lost, attitudes have softened and horses are now for the most part pets, not working animals. Horses are commonly over fed, and they no longer do anything approaching work. Riders are, how can I say this....often weak, frightened, just not very good in comparison with the past. And we're now overwhelmingly female whereas for most of history women barely rode or drove at all.

We do seem to be much more conscious of safety and harm these days. I know three children between 10 and 12 who have ponies. They are all in hats, hiviz and a body protectors permanently, even just walking on a lead rein around the village. The ponies are all fully booted up, often in strong bits and martingales. I’m sure that’s very safe and sensible in a lot of ways and I’m not saying I disagree with any of the components.

But they are all such a nervous riders. One of them regularly cries with fear. At that age we were riding our horses barefoot in shorts and swimsuits, in only head collars so that we could take them swimming in the river. I do agree with wearing hats but I didn’t wear one then unless we were jumping or I had a lesson. At 11 I had the hottest, maddest 15.2hh chestnut mare. These children are struggling to manage 13hh cob ponies. They have all grown up with horses too, and are from horsey families.

But I think we are like that with any kind of risk. Eating an out of date cauliflower is probably the highest risk we are willing to take these days

I do wonder if we have the balance between safety awareness and fear right.

 

[ycbm]

I do wonder if we have the balance between safety awareness and fear right.

No. In all areas of society. Perversely, it's also made people less safe, because they think it's the responsibility of someone in authority to keep them safe. Try standing for a while and watching a light controlled road crossing. People will stand watching a red man when there is absolutely no chance of them being hurt when crossing the road, then step out without even looking when it turns green, to be almost mown down by the driver who's just jumped a red light.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

they think it's the responsibility of someone in authority to keep them safe.

Gosh, that is so true.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I remember going on an instructional course at Stoneleigh back in 1978 and there was a girl on a semi retired eventer, her brother's horse. She had grown up with horses yet had never ridden bareback. We hadn't had the opportunities she had had but I would not have swapped with her. We had had a lot more fun with our ponies. Our ponies would go anywhere we wanted and were pretty un-shockable just due to our expectations of them really and how much we rode them. So glad we grew up in the times we did.

 

[cauda equina]

When ignorance was bliss!
I'm horrified now at some of the things we got up to when we were kids but at the time we thought nothing of it

 

[criso]

When ignorance was bliss!
I'm horrified now at some of the things we got up to when we were kids but at the time we thought nothing of it

Me too but I knew of a couple of nasty accidents involving cars with two horse deaths and that's without the level of traffic so not everyone got away with it.

I also remember someone who'd fallen off who I realise in retrospect was concussed. They'd lost their memory and we coached her in what to say to cover the accident up. We'd not been wearing hats and she had banged her head.

 

[Indy]

Gosh, that is so true.

I'll go one further and say that most people think their safety is everyone else's responsibility but their own.

 

[Annagain]

Well this thread really has covered a lot of issues hasn't it!

 

[tristar]

modern horses are very often nervous, by nature, well i`d go so far as to say, terrified of their own shadow, and not horses i would breed from for that reason, big movement can be a priority etc., solid, boldness is what i look for, my last two generations of mares passed the test due to helicopters etc landing right next to them, unavoidable when they suddenly decend out of the sky and you are sat there on the road thinking `what the shxte` and the horse just carries on as normal.

maybe its intelligence that enables them to know that running away is the bad option, specially when there is a main road close. a kind of decision to stay calm and be in control of themselves, be present in the moment instead of losing themselves in their own fear.

i can live through tissy fits, rearing on the way to the field, like this morning, due to spring grass, but give me a horse that will take me through hell when mounted and bring me out the other side, a real horse.

i thought it was a good idea to have extra help with the greys, whilst practicing though

 

[criso]

Interesting piece about accidents in rotten row in the 1800s.

Rotten Row Accidents in Hyde Park in the 1800s - geriwalton.com

By the 1800s Rotten Row was a well-established spot and because of its popularity there were plenty of horse related accidents reported. Among them were

www.geriwalton.com

There seems to be a lot of broken reins.