The coronation carriage, isn't this a bit excessive?

[criso]

Criso, did you eventually get to where you needed to be?

Thanks for asking, I did, I go to the yard by train and weekends have to be there as I'm on 5 day livery so was going to wait as long as it takes.

The people who work at the station know me as a regular and they have discretion to order a taxi if so many are cancelled in a row, so there was an alternative. It's just frustrating when a 30 minute journey ends up taking 90 minutes or more. Cancellations on the way back too

The train company forced in different terms and conditions a few years ago removing incentives to work weekends/holidays and overtime so they struggle to run a service at weekends. The current strikes are partly about similar proposals in other companies.

Bringing it back to the coronation, I got home about 8:30 and put the TV on when I got in and the coronation was on, pretty much the same pictures as when I left. First thought was, surely it's finished by now but it was just the news.

 

[criso]

Something else did strike me. A lot of people are referring to it as once in s lifetime but Charles is in his 70s and men tend to die earlier than women. So statically, a lot of us here will around for the next change of monarchy to compare.

 

[palo1]

I loved all the armed forces marching. And I know I’m Scottish but the pipe band gets me every time.
The mounted band were really impressive and the horses were so cool.

I struggle not to be happy when you see that many folk having a good time.

Did anyone see the interview with Emma May-Miller who wouldn’t leave her bedroom for anxiety but after being involved with the Princes Trust was now able to give an interview on TV? If that’s not a light at the end of a tunnel for someone I don’t know what is.

There is literally nothing more stirring than the pipes and drums (and I am not Scottish).

 

[Barton Bounty]

There is literally nothing more stirring than the pipes and drums (and I am not Scottish).

Every new year it always gives goosebumps.. Hogmany… pipes

 

[dogatemysalad]

Yesterday was such a lovely day. We visited my daughters village, where the green was bordered by the stalls that come for the monthly market. A large screen in front of rows of deck chairs, showed the whole coronation. Small children wearing crowns played with flags, while parents brought along bubbly and carefully carried champagne glasses. Everyone was there, a mix of people in age, race, religion. Eccentrics and Conservative characters all mingled together in an atmosphere of generosity and goodwill. And of course, all the dogs were loved and admired as they hopefully, but politely watched the picnics and food from the market stalls.
Nicest of all, were the conversations that sprung up amongst strangers around me. No one was shy yesterday, there was a bond that united us all.

 

[AmyMay]

Something else did strike me. A lot of people are referring to it as once in s lifetime but Charles is in his 70s and men tend to die earlier than women. So statically, a lot of us here will around for the next change of monarchy to compare.

True. But my feeling is that this is the last ‘great’ coronation. I think William either won’t have one, or there will be a significantly smaller event.

 

[fetlock]

Something else did strike me. A lot of people are referring to it as once in s lifetime but Charles is in his 70s and men tend to die earlier than women. So statically, a lot of us here will around for the next change of monarchy to compare.

Once in a lifetime as in watching it or experiencing the day with family who may or not be around for the next one, whenever that may be.

I had plans to watch it with my parents, perhaps the last opportunity to watch a huge and historic event together, due to their ages and infirmities. Unfortunately Covid skuppered that plan.

 

[Orangehorse]

Britain tried doing without the monarchy once, but called the King back.

An elected head of state wants the job, and will do what is required to get elected. A monarch is just handed the job and does it from a sense of duty.

I expect Charles did not want to hand over to William, to give him more time with his young family before having to take the Crown one day.

 

[Burnttoast]

Britain tried doing without the monarchy once, but called the King back.

To be fair, that was 370+ years ago and things were rather different then. Not that I necessarily want an elected head of state, but I don't think we can use the events of the seventeenth century as an argument against one now.

 

[Annagain]

It’s not a straight choice between a monarch and a US style elected president though, is it? There are many models in between, from a much more low key constitutional monarchy like the Dutch or the Danish or an elected but non-political president like in Ireland, where the role is purely ceremonial.

While I’m not a massive fan of a monarchy (I use the term generally as I have nothing against the people involved) given the relative abilities of the two roles to affect legislation in practice, I’d prioritise the reformation of the House of Lords over the monarchy. A man upper chamber that is truly reflective of society is far more important in my opinion.

That’s not to say I agree with the monarchy though. Part of my objection is based on the fact that the people involved have absolutely no say in their own lives…or if they do decide to live their own life they get hounded for it. For no other reason than their ancestors were bigger bullies than ours. The idea of your whole life being mapped out from the day you’re born until the day you die - military service (as a man, so far, although it’s been a while since a woman has been directly in line to the throne) get married (at least they have more freedom to choose their own partner these days) have kids, working royal, king - is horrible to me, despite the immense riches and privilege that go with it.

Our whole society today is supposed to be (don’t get me started on whether it actually is) based on everyone making a contribution and anyone being able to achieve what they want if they apply themselves well enough and anyone being able to be who they want to be. Except for the head of state who’s got the job from the day they’re born. I know abolishing the monarchy won’t address the issues directly but its very existence is a symbol of the inequality we’re striving to eradicate. Until George was born less than 10 years ago, it even told girls they’re less equal than boys.

 

[honetpot]

I think they should all have 'real' jobs, pay all tax from any income inheritance tax etc, and a bit like you get taxed/paid for working/living in a pub, and paid per 'performance'. So someone like Princess Anne, would perhaps work out better off.
A bit like the stock of a pub, and thing that belongs to Crown estates should be run like any other business, and personal estate should be taxed like everyone else. If the general vote was we need a head of state, we should have transparently who owns and who pays for what, and none of the lobbying that goes on so they can avoid laws that everyone else has to follow.

 

[AmyMay]

I think they should all have 'real' jobs, pay all tax from any income inheritance tax etc, and a bit like you get taxed/paid for working/living in a pub, and paid per 'performance'. So someone like Princess Anne, would perhaps work out better off.
A bit like the stock of a pub, and thing that belongs to Crown estates should be run like any other business, and personal estate should be taxed like everyone else. If the general vote was we need a head of state, we should have transparently who owns and who pays for what, and none of the lobbying that goes on so they can avoid laws that everyone else has to follow.

I don’t quite follow you. They work, they pay tax. The Crown Estate is a business.

 

[Lexi 123]

As an Irish person I think it’s crazy in 2023 the royal family is allowed to spend that much money on a party. I also think it’s crazy how they have so much power they really shouldn’t in other countries royal family’s don’t have any power a lot of them live normal life’s.

 

[DressageCob]

I'm not a monarchist (but I'm also afraid of the alternative) but I had a really lovely day on Saturday. I drove across the pennines to see my grandparents. My grandma has dementia and my granddad has already outlived his kidney failure prognosis. My granddad is too poorly to care for my grandma so she's in a care home. I went to their home with my mum, auntie and uncle (as well as my dog) and my grandparents held hands as they watched Charles be crowned. They reminisced about the old days, we admired the procession, had a nice meal, watched some more and then my grandma was taken back and we drove home. It was a lovely family day and one I will cherish, particularly as I am more aware than ever that such days are finite.

 

[AmyMay]

As an Irish person I think it’s crazy in 2023 the royal family is allowed to spend that much money on a party. I also think it’s crazy how they have so much power they really shouldn’t in other countries royal family’s don’t have any power a lot of them live normal life’s.

The Government spent the money. They have symbolic power only.

 

[honetpot]

I don’t quite follow you. They work, they pay tax. The Crown Estate is a business.

They do not pay as much tax as they should.

King Charles will not pay tax on inheritance from the Queen

Monarch is exempt under 1993 agreement but Charles will pay income tax as his mother did

www.theguardian.com

They are also exempt from some Employment Laws

Revealed: Queen’s sweeping immunity from more than 160 laws

Guardian investigation finds monarch enjoys extraordinary exemptions in laws ranging from animal welfare to taxation

www.theguardian.com

Queen secretly lobbied Scottish ministers for climate law exemption

Monarch used secretive procedure to become only person in country not bound by a green energy rule

www.theguardian.com

Hopefully KC will modify the last one, but really they shouldn't have the opportunity to pick and choose.

 

[ycbm]

As an Irish person I think it’s crazy in 2023 the royal family is allowed to spend that much money on a party. I also think it’s crazy how they have so much power they really shouldn’t in other countries royal family’s don’t have any power a lot of them live normal life’s.

The Royal Family didn't pay, tax payers did. In return, the event is probably going to generate additional tax on hospitality, souvenir products, TV rights and future tourism than it cost. I pointed above to an article where a souvenir plate manufacturer has sold a million pounds worth of plates, which will collect 20% vat on UK sales, income tax and NI on the overtime their staff and others in the supply chain have worked. That's just the one company. Every hotel in London was probably full at a daily rate of many times what they could normally charge. People will have paid vat on buying red white and blue clothes to wear to street parties, the drivers who worked extra time to deliver them will pay tax and NI. DVDs of the Coronation and the concert are already on sale, with 20% vat. It just goes on and on.

As a taxpayer, I'm happy with the investment. I'm hoping somebody will do a full analysis of the costs and likely income soon. I can't find one at the moment.

 

[ycbm]

The only other figure I can easily find is that the hospitality industry was estimating a boost of £350m. That's £70 million in VAT, heaven knows how much in duty on alcohol (not including duty on stuff bought in shops), and not including income tax and NI on the extra hours worked by staff.
.

 

[eahotson]

I was talking to the mother of my YO. She was 9 at the time of the late Queen's coronation and remembers it well. They went round to a neighbour to watch and had a party with 3 cottages the following day. She said it was absolutely pouring the day of the coronation.

In 1953 rationing was still in force for many things and reconstruction after the war was still taking place. There was high inflation and what was available was expensive. So not really that much different to the hard times we're in now. The Queen and PP obeyed rationing the same as others (and farmers were much more appreciated for providing food than they are now!!)

As above there are 'standing costs' associated with the armed forces, etc which is money that would be spent normally. The biggest cost of the coronation is not the ceremony but the security costs associated with having foreign royalty, world leaders and their representatives in London.

We need something to enjoy. Let those who want to (myself included) enjoy the day. If you don't want to watch the ceremony that's also OK - just enjoy the extra bank holiday. What I find sad in today's society is the fact that people need to be so angry with opposing views and that has polarised society so badly. Live and let live is a much more comfortable existence and I wish more people would adopt it.

Agree.

 

[dogatemysalad]

Husband made the Cornation quiche for the Sunday garden party in the village and can happily report that it was all eaten within the first 10 minutes.
I'm not a lover of broad beans, but it really was lovely. Its interesting that recipes can have ingredients that work well with the right combination of flavours.

 

[criso]

somebody will do a full analysis of the costs and likely income soon. I can't find one at the momen

They've started to but will have to wait till the end of the month to get the full picture.

Was reported yesterday hospitality was up but retail was down nationally as people stayed in to watch on Saturday instead of going out. That was comparing to last year but they didn't put an actual figure.

Businesses were closed on Monday so that's down. I found this which has an estimate of £2.3b per average bank holiday.

How much does a bank holiday cost the UK economy?

Bank holidays offer workers a chance to unwind over a long weekend. But with almost the entire nation taking time off work, how does it impact the economy?

www.ns-businesshub.com

Not a reason not to have a bank holiday as there are effects that are difficult to measure in terms of morale and general wellbeing that are worth the financial cost but we can't pretend there isn't a financial cost.

There was also a feeling from hospitality that with the cost of living crisis, May won't support 3 bank holidays so while revenue was up this weekend, they expect the other bank holiday to be down at the end of the month. I couldn't find any figures comparing the Monday the week before to see if those receipts were down if people saved their money for the coronation weekend.

Not saying there won't be overall profit but you have to look at the full picture.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

They've started to but will have to wait till the end of the month to get the full picture.

Was reported yesterday hospitality was up but retail was down nationally as people stayed in to watch on Saturday instead of going out. That was comparing to last year but they didn't put an actual figure.

Businesses were closed on Monday so that's down. I found this which has an estimate of £2.3b per average bank holiday.

How much does a bank holiday cost the UK economy?

Bank holidays offer workers a chance to unwind over a long weekend. But with almost the entire nation taking time off work, how does it impact the economy?

www.ns-businesshub.com

Not a reason not to have a bank holiday as there are effects that are difficult to measure in terms of morale and general wellbeing that are worth the financial cost but we can't pretend there isn't a financial cost.

There was also a feeling from hospitality that with the cost of living crisis, May won't support 3 bank holidays so while revenue was up this weekend, they expect the other bank holiday to be down at the end of the month. I couldn't find any figures comparing the Monday the week before to see if those receipts were down if people saved their money for the coronation weekend.

Not saying there won't be overall profit but you have to look at the full picture.

The financial cost of the day itself has to be weighed up against all the extra spending on memorabilia etc before the BH

 

[criso]

The financial cost of the day itself has to be weighed up against all the extra spending on memorabilia etc before the BH

Agreed though I don't how comfortable I am with the disposability of plastic flags and bunting that will be straight to landfill even if someone does make money out of it. Some of the bunting I saw had a date and picture of Charles, so unlikely to be reused, it's not like Christmas decorations where hopefully they get used next year.

Plus who is actually benefitting from stuff bought on Amazon made overseas.

 

[dogatemysalad]

Agreed though I don't how comfortable I am with the disposability of plastic flags and bunting that will be straight to landfill even if someone does make money out of it. Some of the bunting I saw had a date and picture of Charles, so unlikely to be reused, it's not like Christmas decorations where hopefully they get used next year.

Plus who is actually benefitting from stuff bought on Amazon made overseas.

Our plastic bunting has just had its third outing in a year. Our community loves celebrating, not only for Royal occasions, but for WW2 remembrance events.
We just carefully dry and roll it up in a drawer. It'll probably end up having more outings than the banners loved by the Eco warriors.

 

[criso]

Our plastic bunting has just had its third outing in a year. Our community loves celebrating, not only for Royal occasions, but for WW2 remembrance events.
We just carefully dry and roll it up in a drawer. It'll probably end up having more outings than the banners loved by the Eco warriors.

That's good but not sure if everyone else is as conscientious. I've kept my horse in the same area for 8/9 years and not seen that level of flags and bunting in that time even for the jubilee, so nothing to suggest they will going forward. Much of it had Charles face and a date so less reusable. For remembrance, they go in for plastic poppies and wreaths not flags.

 

[MagicMelon]

Huh? Horses work pulling carriages every day, in every situation. It's the handlers job to train the horses, and they will have done it many times before, most recently at the Queen's funeral. There have always been crowds, cheering, etc. throughout history for thousands of years, it's nothing new or different.

A bus? Pathetic.

I believe the horses that were at the funeral where all black, so these greys didnt get a practice run at that. Of course its their job to train and prepare the horses but I feel theres some occasions where you cant prepare them enough such as the coronation - especially when you had protestors threatening to throw rape alarms at the horses etc. Why take that risk? To me, the horses didnt exactly look relaxed. Neither did a lot of the black horses either. Its high risk to spectators too, Im sure most of us saw the footage of the horse reversing at high speed into the spectator barriers? That could have ended very badly. Just because its been done for years, doesnt mean some thing shouldnt change! Yes a bus! A bright red London bus, very iconic!

Anyway, the coronation was over the top, as expected but I dont mind that as Im sure it made a lot of money for the businesses in London. Ultimately though, I really wish Charles had handed the crown to William, Charles looked SO old and doddery. Why not inject some nice enthusiastic young blood!

 

[Indy]

Maybe one of the reasons Charles took it on rather than handing direct to William was to allow his young family the opportunity to continue a life in what they see as normal.

 

[Annagain]

Ultimately though, I really wish Charles had handed the crown to William, Charles looked SO old and doddery. Why not inject some nice enthusiastic young blood!

Because that's not how it works. They genuinely (have been brought up to) believe they have been born to do that role and it is their lifelong duty. For the same reason the Queen didn't step down when she was clearly not well enough to be doing the job. It's ridiculous that they feel they have no say in the matter (and if Harry's treatment by the media for stepping down is anything to go by, so do a lot of the public). My judgement is reserved for the system not the people.

 

[Clodagh]

Abdication is a last resort and not to be taken lightly. You can’t have the tradition of the monarchy and then discard bits that don’t suit you.
There’s a lot of people on here who are definitely glass less than half full types!

 

[tda]

Not sure about all businesses being closed on the bank holiday Monday. Because it was raining we took a trip out to thesportsbikeshop, like rideaway/derby house for men it was busy, and so was the shop next door