3Beasties
Well-Known Member
*like*
The 'Grand' National?
- Thread starter whiteroom
- Start date
*like*
Baggybreeches
Well-Known Member
I was there, it wasn't hot at all. The conditions were perfect, the temperature was around 8 degrees C with a stiff breeze blowing across from the west.
Smurf's Gran
Well-Known Member
Mmmm I also like racing, and support the view that NH horses (at an elite level) will be cared for, have the best vet attention etc. I'm also aware that there are many other accidents in racing and these tend to go largely unseen by the majority of the public (such as a fatal fall in a seller at Uttoxeter for example)
I love the GN, however....
The article you posted really irritated me, it displayed a certain stance that only serves to polarise arguments and prevent any sort of useful dialogue between disagreeing sides.
1. It was the assumption expressed that the animal rights activists were actually pleased that horses had been injured etc as this proved their point re racing, and that they are more bothered re winning the argument than the fate of the horses
2. And also the view that anyone who is anti NH doesn't understand racing.
I was actually agreeing with the article until I read those comments, it has put me off totally.
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BigBuck's
Well-Known Member
You may not be aware that a proportion of the entry fee for every horse in every UK race is donated to RoR.
BigBuck's
Well-Known Member
I read the article too. I didn't see anything expressed that "anyone who is anti NH doesn't understand racing"? Could you quote which bit that was?
And to be fair, I saw a few comments on the AA and PETA pages on Facebook in the aftermath of the news about Balder Succes that seemed to support the author of the article's stance, some of the comments being made by some of the hardcore antis were distasteful to say the least.
Smurf's Gran
Well-Known Member
"At the same time, the more extreme elements within certain animal rights groups were seizing on the news with what I can only describe as glee. It was hard, if not impossible, to escape the conclusion that they were glad that these horses had died, because it was more ammunition for their cause.
And that’s the point. The point that the antis and an increasing proportion of the general public find hard to understand. The vast, vast majority of those connected to racing, either as industry employees or fans, love the horses."
It is this that puts me off, it does the writer no favours. I love NH racing, but hate the polarisation of the argument. Always the assumption that if someone doesn't agree, its because they dont understand, actually maybe they understand well enough!!
And that’s the point. The point that the antis and an increasing proportion of the general public find hard to understand. The vast, vast majority of those connected to racing, either as industry employees or fans, love the horses."
It is this that puts me off, it does the writer no favours. I love NH racing, but hate the polarisation of the argument. Always the assumption that if someone doesn't agree, its because they dont understand, actually maybe they understand well enough!!
Smurf's Gran
Well-Known Member
What is the proportion please?
Dobiegirl
Well-Known Member
Some of the rhetoric on the AA site was very emotive and the way it was read it looked like 2 horses died in the GN, they tell people that the owners,trainers,jockeys are just in it for the money and dont care about their horses.
Most owners will never earn a penny from their horses, they race their horses because they love racing and if they earn a bit of money then that is seen as a bonus.
Most owners will never earn a penny from their horses, they race their horses because they love racing and if they earn a bit of money then that is seen as a bonus.
Elf On A Shelf
...
The reality of horse racing in monetary terms.
Today we took 6 horses to Kelso. The total sales value they were all bought for £227k - yes two hundred and twenty seven THOUSAND pounds! How mus did they win between them? Just over £1k for a 2nd place.
Break that down for the horse that was 2nd - £22k bought for, on average £1700 a month to train. £80 a month on shoes, £75 racing transport, £30 lads day expenses, £120 jockey fee. Take out the jockeys, trainers and stable staffs percentage of his £1k winnings and the owners are left with about £800. Not much return for what they are paying. That is the reality of your average racehorse.
The only was to make money in racing is to strike lucky and buy yourself a Danedream or Lie Forrit as scraggy worthless youngsters that turn into something fantastic!
Today we took 6 horses to Kelso. The total sales value they were all bought for £227k - yes two hundred and twenty seven THOUSAND pounds! How mus did they win between them? Just over £1k for a 2nd place.
Break that down for the horse that was 2nd - £22k bought for, on average £1700 a month to train. £80 a month on shoes, £75 racing transport, £30 lads day expenses, £120 jockey fee. Take out the jockeys, trainers and stable staffs percentage of his £1k winnings and the owners are left with about £800. Not much return for what they are paying. That is the reality of your average racehorse.
The only was to make money in racing is to strike lucky and buy yourself a Danedream or Lie Forrit as scraggy worthless youngsters that turn into something fantastic!
Nicnac
Well-Known Member
What a wonderfully balanced and knowledgeable article.
tess1
Well-Known Member
hmmm ... this is taken from the facebook page of the Racehorse Rescue Centre, posted on 11th April ... As a registered charity we receive nothing from the racing industry in way of support. They donate 100k to RoR each year which RoR support four horse charities. It is no way near enough to look after the 5,000 horses retired from racing each year. Horses are looked after while in racing and charities like ours are left to pick up the pieces when they leave. There is enough money in the industry for each horse to have a retirement fund that follows it wherever it goes.
https://www.facebook.com/theRRC
Smurf's Gran
Well-Known Member
I did wonder if it was paying lip service as it were
tess1
Well-Known Member
yes, I think that's a reasonable way to put it.
And from the 'wonderfully balanced and knowledgable article' that someone else posted ... "The vast, vast majority of those connected to racing, either as industry employees or fans, love the horses."
So I think it's only fair to say it's time they put their money where their mouth is ...
And by the way ... at least from my experience .. those who may be 'anti' do not take joy in the pain and death of horses. Far from it.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Two points in that article, one completely incorrect and one very misleading.
It is completely incorrect to say that you cannot make a horse which is unwell or unhappy race. Racing is a natural 'lion gets the hindmost' innate reaction for horses and very few will not race if part of a group which are running, even if they are lame. And I believe that the a very large proportion of racers test positive for stomach ulcers due to the way they are kept, so horses which have diseases entirely due to a racing lifestyle can and do race.
It is totally misleading, in the context of writing about the Grand National, to quote a death in racing rate of 0.2 per cent, one in five hundred starters. That figure is for ALL racing, I believe, and the figure for jump racing is, I think, one in 250 starters, twice as high. It means that it is completely expected that a horse will die for every 250 horses that cross a start line. One every few days.
Other than that, I understand where she is coming from.
I see that the odds of 25 to 1 are being offered for Many Clouds to win the National in 2016, And I agree with everyone who says that if the horse runs a race of that length again then there are some very serious welfare issues in his management. I was also slightly saddened to see that instead of relaxing quietly in a paddock full of grass yesterday, he was paraded through the streets of Newmarket.
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AdorableAlice
Well-Known Member
And that comment shows the lack of knowledge so prevalent in this thread. The horse is fit and on a strict nutrition and care routine, a belly full of grass is hardly appropriate, safe or wise.
Moomin1
Well-Known Member
I think you've probably misinterpreted ycbm's meaning there.
I don't think she literally means 'a paddock full of grass'. I think she was probably more getting at the disappointment that the horse wasn't being rested quietly at home. Though maybe I have got that wrong.
bonny
Well-Known Member
he doesn't live in Newmarket !
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
It was my understanding that there are National Hunt yards, although rare, with horses in training which graze for a period every day. If the horse had been in one of those yards, it would not have been unsafe for him to be in a paddock yesterday and I was saddened that he wasn't.
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tess1
Well-Known Member
Well, let's turn him out in an all weather arena then ... shall we, for a roll and a buck and a kick? Because of course parading a horse that nearly collapsed the day before is absolutely the most appropriate thing to do. As is running him next year ...
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I'm not sure if I got that wrong or the Daily Express, but he was paraded through the streets of his home town, wherever that was.
Edited to add.
Apologies, Lambourn, I always confuse the two huge racing centres for each other.
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bonny
Well-Known Member
So many experts on here ! I think Oliver Sherwood knows what he's doing....the horse is fine
3Beasties
Well-Known Member
How do we know he wasn't turned out for a roll and a buck/kick prior to or/and following the parade? I'm sure had they felt that he had not recovered enough from the efforts of the race they wouldn't have paraded him at all.
Also just because they have stated the odds for him next year it doesn't mean he will run.
tess1
Well-Known Member
lol Oliver Sherwood didn't even want the horse to run ... it was the owner who wanted it to happen.
Now they can't wait to run him again ... even though he over-heated so badly this time. Of course, the horse's welfare always comes first ....
bonny
Well-Known Member
It's a year away so who knows .....a lot can happen in that time and I imagine the priority will be the Gold Cup
tess1
Well-Known Member
Surely the priority should be the horse.
Moomin1
Well-Known Member
I imagine Bonny is completely correct. The priority will be the Gold Cup..
tess1
Well-Known Member
surely not ... not in a sport where everyone *loves* the horses so much ...
bonny
Well-Known Member
This is just getting stupid, he is a racehorse not a pet.
teapot
Well-Known Member
He was paraded in his home village, not Newmarket, upon arrival on Sunday, after staying at Aintree Saturday night. I assume they stayed in Liverpool to give him some time post race instead of shoving him straight back on a lorry for a 200 odd mile trip home.
Looks like he'll parade at Sandown in a couple of weeks time and then the summer off as per most NH horses. http://www1.skysports.com/racing/ne...et-to-return-for-2016-crabbies-grand-national
Also, I see Oscar Time has been retired :smile3:
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tess1
Well-Known Member
But what about the well-balanced and informed article that said that almost everyone in racing loved the horses?