The SNP and Mrs Nicola Sturgeon

[Countryman]

Wasn't the Housing and Planning Bill subject to EVEL?

In theory, I don't have a problem with English MPs voting on issues which concern England only, which have no knock-on effects on the other countries in the UK. But I don't believe the current EVEL format guarantees this.

Unfortunately there is no current EVEL. Rather, on matters which are England-only, for example, English MP's have an special input on most aspects of new legislation. They cannot repeal old, and they cannot veto anything - everybody can vote on it in the Third Reading (which is what counts and determines whether a law passes).

 

[Judgemental]

Buddy's Mum, all I am suggesting Mrs Sturgeon uses her high profile to advertise Scottish Tweeds.

Are you suggesting NS should not bother with promoting the industry?

 

[Judgemental]

Think it's time you tootled off back under that bridge, eh Judgemental?

Buddy's Mum, all I am suggesting is that Mrs Sturgeon uses her high profile to advertise Scottish Tweeds.

Are you suggesting NS should not bother with promoting the industry?

 

[Buddy'sMum]

Buddy's Mum, all I am suggesting is that Mrs Sturgeon uses her high profile to advertise Scottish Tweeds.

Are you suggesting NS should not bother with promoting the industry?

And here I was thinking you were a raging chauvinist. My mistake.
For the record, the First Minister goes out of her way to support Scottish tweeds and designers
http://www.heraldscotland.com/life_style/13211550.In_pictures__Nicola_Sturgeon_s_style_evolution/

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

The op is surely having a laugh right? No one is that narrow minded!

Op, try living in a country where your vote doesn't count.

Let's imagine the English vote for a Centre right government, but a bigger country next door decide they want a far left government. so you just have to lump it with the far left. Imagine England all vote and wish to remain as is, but The bigger country next door want to join up with a new allegiance with the Far East. You also just have to put up with that. Imagine living in a country where there is no such thing as democracy, where what your fellow countrymen vote for is not what they get, infact the polar opposite. Scotland and England are very different countries, what suits one does not suit the other. The people of Scotland vote to try and do what is best for their country, and yet posters like this seem to think we are just north England.

If you want cohesion, you need to find a solution where each country is given the opportunity to flourish, and not be dictated to by the wishes of another which simply do not fit. A United Kingdom where each country works together on a united front, whilst understanding the needs of the separate entities and not forcing them into a situation where democracy fails.

I am Scottish and have no issues with English votes on things that only matter in England. But in the same respect, Scotland should not be forced against its will to do whatever the hell England wants!

Fabulous post *claps loudly and nods*

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

No but if she is really interested in Scotland, instead of the overly tight fitting pencil line skirts on her derriere, leaving nothing to the imagination, a nice Tweed would be far more appropriate.

Or indeed a pleated Kilt

Short heeled brogues etc.

If you are high profile it is easy to support a primary industry making cloth for which Scotland is famous, by wearing the fabric.

When I see that, we will know there is a measure of sincerity in NS

Wow your a bitter twisted fanatic aren't you? I actually can't take anything you post seriously because it's making me yawn with its childish finger pointing. She did it miss, her that I'm insanely jealous of her wardrobe and how much better she looks in a skirt than I'd do. Honestly, ridiculous.

Pops off back to the (now sane looking ) main areas of HHO

 

[ester]

I love the suggestion that people can be judged on what they wear, WTF is a short-heeled brogue?! In fact I have no idea why what anyone wears really matters so long as bits are covered up .
But yes, clearly she should only be allowed to step out of her house in tweed or tartan......................

 

[Shutterbug]

Nicola Sturgeon is the only MP in the UK who had her **** together following an EU vote result that nobody in the Tory party saw coming. She was not chased away from Brussels and she is neither stupid nor naive enough to believe that going there following the result was going to magically mean Scotland got to stay in the EU. However she resides over a country that voted to remain and she must be seen to be doing all she can to investigate every option and build relationships to ensure the voice of Scotland is heard and that is what she us doing. And she's making the rest look like a shower of bumbling private school boys with no plan A. She entered discussions in Brussels to ensure that the Scottish vote was heard and noticed and she was welcomed. They showed a great deal of sympathy and she has opened avenues of discussion for future relations. You conveniently forget that one of the running campaign promises of the No campaign was that of Scotland wanted to remain in the EU it would have to vote No. Turns out that was a load of *******s. The goalposts have been moved.

And can people not understand that being part of the U.K. Is not and never has been the same as being a member of the EU. I assume you all get that the UK was still an independent country wile part of the EU yeah?

Scotland has an entirely different attitude towards Europe, that much is very clear.

 

[Judgemental]

Scotland has an entirely different attitude towards Europe, that much is very clear.

and seemingly the sense of honor so far as agreements concerning English Votes for English laws, especially the agreement to stand aside from any vote concerning the Hunting Act 2004

Had they the SNP, on the instruction of The Vixen, done a) as she said the party would do during the election campaign and b) honored that pledge, then I for one would not have given the SNP a second thought and I don't suppose the majority of posters here would participate.

In fact they might very well have cheered her on, so far her EU ambitions are concerned.

Furthermore the quite amazing fact of the matter is, that had the vote using the Statutory Instrument taken place and been successful, it would have merely have brought the legislation into line with contemporary legislation in Scotland concerning hunting with hounds.

Cross or Welch on an agreement with hunting folk and you can take it you are finished and they will 'hound' you for evermore.

I guarantee NS and the SNP will never get a sniff of independence and the EU because they cannot be trusted.

 

[Shutterbug]

Haha! If this current government was in a way shape of form upholding its promises to Scotland (remember they said a No vote was the only way to guarantee remaining in EU) then perhaps they will be well placed to point the finger at any other party and accuse them of being untrustworthy.

Why don't you just admit that your pissed because NS threw a spanner in the works as far as the hunting repeal is concerned and get over it.

Incidentally the hunting ban affects the whole
of the U.K. So they were perfectly entitled to take a stand and represent the opinions of their constituents who demanded that they vote on it.

 

[Alec Swan]

……..

And can people not understand that being part of the U.K. Is not and never has been the same as being a member of the EU. ……..

I assume you all get that the UK was still an independent country wile part of the EU yeah?

Scotland has an entirely different attitude towards Europe, that much is very clear.

It is and always has been the intention of the EU moguls that every individual State will lose it's individuality.

The greater the EU control of States so the less the independence of individual States.

Scotland's approach to the EU has been one whereby Brussels has been a benefactor, which explains the 'attitude', and which in turn explains why Brussels won't have them join without being attached to the UK. Too much of a liability.

Had Scotland a vibrant economy and could stand squarely on its feet, Mrs Sturgeon would have been welcomed with open arms. Scotland remains as a dependent upon the rest of the UK. I don't like that fact any more than anyone else, but it's how it is. Were Westminster to invest heavily in Scotland and support their own finance generating abilities, it would be a different matter.

Alec.

 

[Shutterbug]

That's a hypothetical scenario that has been kicking sound since the 1400's and gets brought up constantly yet the EU has no current policy to create either a federation or a confederation. Not one single member state of the EU has lost its independence has since its inception in 1957.

As for Scotland, 2nd largest economy in the UK and 12the largest economy of the 28 member states. Several EU countries have already spoken out in support of Scotland being a member state, Poland, France Germany, Belgium. Two senior EEP members have spoken out in support. The Union of Democrats and Independants have stated the EU should welcome Scotland and a senior Eurozone official has said they would fast rack any application from Scotland to join. That's just the ones I know about

We're Westminster to invest heavily in Scotland we woud not be where we are today. Independants may not happen soon but it will happen.

 

[popsdosh]

Haha! If this current government was in a way shape of form upholding its promises to Scotland (remember they said a No vote was the only way to guarantee remaining in EU) then perhaps they will be well placed to point the finger at any other party and accuse them of being untrustworthy.

Why don't you just admit that your pissed because NS threw a spanner in the works as far as the hunting repeal is concerned and get over it.

Incidentally the hunting ban affects the whole
of the U.K. So they were perfectly entitled to take a stand and represent the opinions of their constituents who demanded that they vote on it.

Get real the legislation is different for scotland luckily it was devolved to them so why stick their beaks into it when it comes to England ,NS actually gave that as the reason when she said they would not interfer in the Vote. However the SNP has this wonderful set up with a leader who is not in westminster so they just play games saying it wasnt me it was him.. When are you going to realise that if England did not subsidise our cousins north of the border NS would not be able to give away all the perks that she has to her electorate at the expense of English tax payers if you dont believe that check out the Barnett formula which means in scotland you get 18% higher government spending per head than England . If I am totally honest I am fed up with the whingeing coming from up there if the vote had gone the other way and the uk stayed in against the English vote we are meant to just accept that and move on which we would have done. You really do sound like spoilt brats sometimes and if not careful one day you may find that you dont need a vote to get your interdependence. As I said before NS thinks christmas has come an excuse for another once in a lifetime referendum on Independence not sure so many north of the border will go along with her. As for Brussels LOL the actual wording was that NS did not represent a legitimate nation state and she got told to B****r off, however she dressed it up for home consumption!

 

[Shutterbug]

Get real the legislation is different for scotland luckily it was devolved to them so why stick their beaks into it when it comes to England ,NS actually gave that as the reason when she said they would not interfer in the Vote. However the SNP has this wonderful set up with a leader who is not in westminster so they just play games saying it wasnt me it was him.. When are you going to realise that if England did not subsidise our cousins north of the border NS would not be able to give away all the perks that she has to her electorate at the expense of English tax payers . If I am totally honest I am fed up with the whingeing coming from up there if the vote had gone the other way and the uk stayed in against the English vote we are meant to just accept that and move on which we would have done. However as I said before NS thinks christmas has come an excuse for another once in a lifetime referendum on indepedance not sure so many north of the border will go along with her. As for Brussels LOL the actual wording was that NS did not respresent a legitimate nation state and she got told to B****r off, however she dressed it up for home consumption!

If you think for one second that Scotland is subsidised by England then you are the one that needs to, as you politely put it, "get real" . Repeat a lie often enough and idiots will buy it indeed. This isn't my creation but I find it handy to provide as a point of education to people who perpetuate this myth.

The Scottish subsidy myth

1979 to 1997 the lifetime of the Tory governments of Thatcher and Major - a table question in parliament revealed during this period Scotland gave £27bn more than was received.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/...eived-1.406190

That's a lot of money Scotland lost. Add to this Scotland having to pay interest on loans and debts it didn't need bumps the figure even higher.



So what about more recent times

The Institute of Fiscal Studies in 2013 provided a breakdown of taxes from each of the 4 parts of the UK and found Scots pay more taxes per head than the other 3 countries.

http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/6881


What is difficult to find is a comparative breakdown of taxes and revenues by region but The Centre for Economics and Business Research have managed top do this and state state Scotland receives no net subsidy

http://www.cebr.com/reports/how-mone...idises-others/


Now The Daily Mail ceased on the figures usefully broken down in the following link to highlight what London pays but what is clear is Scotland is not a subsidised region, in fact, of the 13 regions (including 9 from England) Scotland is only one of 4 that receives no net subsidy.

So the idea that The English taxpayer subsidises the Scots is a preposterous especially when you consider 6 of the English regions receive subsidies Scotland doesn't.

A word on London revenues. Yes it the economic powerhouse and it revenues provide susbsidies around the UK (excluding Scotland) but the tax and revenue spend doesnt includes big capital project spending which London has received lots of but also its prosperity has it roots in the vast oil revenues in the 1980s at the disposal of the UK government being used not spread the wealth across the UK but create an economic boom in the SE of England. The rest of the UK deserves the payback.

 

[Alec Swan]

……..

As for Scotland, 2nd largest economy in the UK and 12the largest economy of the 28 member states. …….. .

Without the support of the rest of the UK, do you honestly think that Scotland's economy would be ranked as 12th. and within the entire EU? Honestly? It doesn't say much for the remaining 16 nations, does it?

Alec.

 

[Alec Swan]

If you think for one second that Scotland is subsidised by England then you are the one that needs to, as you politely put it, "get real" . ……..

OK, separate from the UK, Scotland can stand on its own feet, and we'll see what happens, …….. that is if the EU will accept Scotland as a single entity. Even Brussels aren't that daft.

Alec.

 

[Goldenstar]

OK, separate from the UK, Scotland can stand on its own feet, and we'll see what happens, …….. that is if the EU will accept Scotland as a single entity. Even Brussels aren't that daft.

Alec.

It's a plan but can they pay for their own referendum this time I don't want to fork out again .
I would rather pay a few nurses .

 

[MotherOfChickens]

If you think for one second that Scotland is subsidised by England then you are the one that needs to, as you politely put it, "get real" . Repeat a lie often enough and idiots will buy it indeed. This isn't my creation but I find it handy to provide as a point of education to people who perpetuate this myth.

The Scottish subsidy myth

1979 to 1997 the lifetime of the Tory governments of Thatcher and Major - a table question in parliament revealed during this period Scotland gave £27bn more than was received.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/...eived-1.406190

That's a lot of money Scotland lost. Add to this Scotland having to pay interest on loans and debts it didn't need bumps the figure even higher.



So what about more recent times

The Institute of Fiscal Studies in 2013 provided a breakdown of taxes from each of the 4 parts of the UK and found Scots pay more taxes per head than the other 3 countries.

http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/6881


What is difficult to find is a comparative breakdown of taxes and revenues by region but The Centre for Economics and Business Research have managed top do this and state state Scotland receives no net subsidy

http://www.cebr.com/reports/how-mone...idises-others/


Now The Daily Mail ceased on the figures usefully broken down in the following link to highlight what London pays but what is clear is Scotland is not a subsidised region, in fact, of the 13 regions (including 9 from England) Scotland is only one of 4 that receives no net subsidy.

So the idea that The English taxpayer subsidises the Scots is a preposterous especially when you consider 6 of the English regions receive subsidies Scotland doesn't.

A word on London revenues. Yes it the economic powerhouse and it revenues provide susbsidies around the UK (excluding Scotland) but the tax and revenue spend doesnt includes big capital project spending which London has received lots of but also its prosperity has it roots in the vast oil revenues in the 1980s at the disposal of the UK government being used not spread the wealth across the UK but create an economic boom in the SE of England. The rest of the UK deserves the payback.

thanks for the post shutterbug. unfortunately those posting in opposition to you one here have demonstrated before that they won't, or can't, pay any attention to pesky facts-even when you spoon feed them the data yourself.

 

[ROG]

If Scotland ever split and joined the EU then we would need a land border which would be unenforceable - that is why Ireland will not have one but thats ok because there can be one on the mainland

A water border is needed to be reasonably enforceable without costing loads of tax money

 

[Shutterbug]

It's a plan but can they pay for their own referendum this time I don't want to fork out again .
I would rather pay a few nurses .

The Scottish Government did pay for the referendum last time.

 

[Goldenstar]

If Scotland ever split and joined the EU then we would need a land border which would be unenforceable - that is why Ireland will not have one but thats ok because there can be one on the mainland

A water border is needed to be reasonably enforceable without costing loads of tax money

Other countries all over the world manage this issue .

 

[Judgemental]

Goodness me 5,242 views since I started this thread only yesterday at 10:00 am.

That may be a record for H & H in terms of views in such a short space of time.

Well at least we are doing something useful for H & H's advertising revenue.

5,242 I wonder if the SNP are monitoring this, because they knew that eventually their disgraceful deceit concerning the Hunting Act 2004 would eventually run them to ground. This is a subject they certainly do not want aired at this time.

Normally we only see a dozen views per day on any subject,

Or unless hunting folk are really steamed up about the SNP. I suspect they, the SNP are watching this thread and are in blind panic.

If I lived in Scotland and had voted to remain in the EU, unless the whole of the UK was going to carry the day, I would not want to go anywhere near the EU with the Vixen and SNP in control, because I would not trust them.

For those who do not know, or have forgotten, the amendment to the Statutory Instrument was actually set down for debate in the House of Commons, in the autumn last year. However it had to be 'pulled' at the very last minute because the SNP said they would vote against.

Duplicitous or what!

 

[Goldenstar]

The Scottish Government did pay for the referendum last time.

Really ?

 

[Shutterbug]

OK, separate from the UK, Scotland can stand on its own feet, and we'll see what happens, …….. that is if the EU will accept Scotland as a single entity. Even Brussels aren't that daft.

Alec.

There is no suggestion they won't accept Scotland as an Independant country, in fact all recent signs point to an independent Scotland being welcomed, even fast tracked to the EU as a member state. public opinion in Europe shows the vast majority of their voting public want Scotland to join.

 

[Shutterbug]

Really ?

Yes,

https://fullfact.org/scotland/ask-full-fact-who-paying-scottish-referendum/

 

[Shutterbug]

Sorry if my links don't work I'm on an iPad in hospital and not sure if they are showing correctly - I'm not being lazy honest......well maybe just a little but that's the pain killers lol

 

[Goldenstar]

There is no suggestion they won't accept Scotland as an Independant country, in fact all recent signs point to an independent Scotland being welcomed, even fast tracked to the EU as a member state. public opinion in Europe shows the vast majority of their voting public want Scotland to join.

How you get Spain to vote you in ?
They don't like separatists .

 

[Alec Swan]

thanks for the post shutterbug. unfortunately those posting in opposition to you one here have demonstrated before that they won't, or can't, pay any attention to pesky facts-even when you spoon feed them the data yourself.

It's irritating I understand, when the Mr Macawber aspect stands in the way of those who spout theory and 'claimed' facts.

Even with EU assistance, Scotland cannot stand alone. Truly I wish that it was otherwise, but it isn't. Scotland will remain the poor relative until Westminster steps up and ploughs in the needed nitrogen of finance.

I'm part Scot and part Irish and have feet in both camps. I feel very strongly on the issue which may be obvious, but without the support of the remainder of the UK, FOR NOW, Scotland cannot be independent of us. Again I wish that it was otherwise, but it isn't.

The whole concept of Scottish independence worries me greatly.

Alec.

 

[Shutterbug]

How you get Spain to vote you in ?
They don't like separatists .

Spain have said they will not negotiate with Scotland as an entity, they will only deal with the U.K. Leaders and rightly so as we are part of the U.K. - I don't think they have said they will block an Independant Scotland from joining, as this would be after independence. Spain won't be seen to support any kind of agreement with Scotland while its part on the UK as it doesn't want to encourage Catalonia

 

[popsdosh]

If Scotland ever split and joined the EU then we would need a land border which would be unenforceable - that is why Ireland will not have one but thats ok because there can be one on the mainland

A water border is needed to be reasonably enforceable without costing loads of tax money

There was indeed a joke going around in the army around the last referendum . Why were they all being sent on exercises along Hadrians wall.

However it is indeed a serious question!!! I wonder how many in Scotland would indeed accept the euro as a currency as they would have no choice. What those in Scotland seem not to appreciate is that at the moment they have it all their own way they can at any time suits them screw up any legislation that does not affect them in the slightest . The only thing that NS showed when she sabotaged the hunting bill was that she could be sucked in and be shown to be the fraud she was thought to be. It just brought true devolution for England a step closer .
.