Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
The smallest of gardens which fall within the curtilage of the average semi-detached bungalow should be exempt then!
Alec.
The SNP and Mrs Nicola Sturgeon
- Thread starter Judgemental
- Start date
The smallest of gardens which fall within the curtilage of the average semi-detached bungalow should be exempt then!
Alec.
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
Those who are fortunate to own these vast areas are already taxed upon the earnings derived from the land and for what ever purpose it's managed, but it seems that this isn't enough.
I wonder if Sturgeon has actually thought this through, or do we suppose that as she's floundering in the popularity polls, that she's making a last ditch attempt by appealing to the radical element, those who I suspect care little for their heritage.
Alec.
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
This thread has hit 79,097 visits and represents more visits than any other non-sticky thread.
That said, Hunting Terms for Beginners, a sticky is only marginally over 80,000 visits.
Whilst not taking any personal satisfaction as the OP, it does go to show that Ms Sturgeon and the SNP are a source of interest, concern and worry, especially as she would happily do away with our nuclear deterrent.
That said, Hunting Terms for Beginners, a sticky is only marginally over 80,000 visits.
Whilst not taking any personal satisfaction as the OP, it does go to show that Ms Sturgeon and the SNP are a source of interest, concern and worry, especially as she would happily do away with our nuclear deterrent.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Hate to tell you Judgemental, but I only look at this thread to see what daft thing you've said now. I'll give you credit though, tis an amusing thread.
Crugeran Celt
Well-Known Member
As for English votes for English laws, yeah, you can have that. Just as soon as Scots get a government they actually voted for!![/QUOTE]
Isn't it ironic that as the EU are trying to tie all of Europe together with one set of laws for all one currency for all and an unvoted in government to rule over it Scotland want more say in their little part of the world, England want to be able to vote on their own as do Wales and now Spain is joining in to split as well. I am a bit confused that the SNP support staying in the EU but want out of Britain. They don't mind having their lives ruled by a government that they will probably have no influence over in Europe but hate the idea of a government they can have a say in based in London.
Isn't it ironic that as the EU are trying to tie all of Europe together with one set of laws for all one currency for all and an unvoted in government to rule over it Scotland want more say in their little part of the world, England want to be able to vote on their own as do Wales and now Spain is joining in to split as well. I am a bit confused that the SNP support staying in the EU but want out of Britain. They don't mind having their lives ruled by a government that they will probably have no influence over in Europe but hate the idea of a government they can have a say in based in London.
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
I'm not too sure of the validity of that claim J-m, when half of the visits are from you! :wink3::biggrin3:
Alec.
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
I'm not too sure of the validity of that claim J-m, when half of the visits are from you! :wink3::biggrin3:
Alec.
Alec what a caution you are LOL :clap: Where that the case I would not have time to service and give acres of advice on my Twitter page with 22K of Followers, who are considerably more respectful than some on this forum that I could name. Present company excepted. (Thinks plotting appropriate tweet)
Bet there are some who will race off and do a search of Judgemental on Twitter LOL x 20
Feel sorry for anybody who has a Judgemental handle - ha
Good grief, just checked there are hundreds of them and only one on Horse and Hound. One could lay a serious Social Media Heel Line.
Better keep quiet about my Facebook page, then I could be unmasked and that would be really embarrassing. Facebook, Unmasked, OK well I thought it was funny.
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Judgemental
Well-Known Member
In light of the developments in Catalonia and the Spanish government, branding the separatists revolutionaries, one wonders where that leaves our separatist brethren in Scotland.
Messrs Juncker and Tusk have stated that they do not want the EU bothered by 'fractures' and yet, it is the Scottish separatists who want to be part of the EU.
Plainly they will not and never will set an acceptable example in the EU.
This thread now exceeds all other hunting threads in terms of views.
For anybody new to the forum, it was started because the SNP and Mrs Sturgeon welched and or reneged, on a deal for English Votes for English laws. In particular not to interfere with an amendment to the Hunting Act 2004 by Statutory Instrument which could have easily passed through the Commons and Lords.
Thereby making life easier for farmers in the West Country and elsewhere, so far as the damage and economic depreciation created by the large herds of red deer, feasting off valuable dairy, beef and sheep grassland and meadows.
Messrs Juncker and Tusk have stated that they do not want the EU bothered by 'fractures' and yet, it is the Scottish separatists who want to be part of the EU.
Plainly they will not and never will set an acceptable example in the EU.
This thread now exceeds all other hunting threads in terms of views.
For anybody new to the forum, it was started because the SNP and Mrs Sturgeon welched and or reneged, on a deal for English Votes for English laws. In particular not to interfere with an amendment to the Hunting Act 2004 by Statutory Instrument which could have easily passed through the Commons and Lords.
Thereby making life easier for farmers in the West Country and elsewhere, so far as the damage and economic depreciation created by the large herds of red deer, feasting off valuable dairy, beef and sheep grassland and meadows.
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Judgemental
Well-Known Member
Interesting how European countries deal with SEPARATISTS :clap:
It makes a number of instructive points to our brethren north of the border. The same would happen in the UK!
Perish the thought there might be a sintillia of schadenfreude in this post
"Eight sacked Catalan officials are JAILED as European arrest warrant is issued for ousted leader after he defied Spanish call to hand himself in
The Deputy First Minister and seven of his senior colleagues have been jailed
A European arrest warrant is expected to be issued against Carles Puigdemont
His lawyer in Belgium says 54-year-old intends to fight any extradition request
Nazi salutes and jeers greeted Catalan politicians as they arrived to hand themselves into police in Madrid
By JAKE WALLIS SIMONS, ASSOCIATE GLOBAL EDITOR, IN BARCELONA & PAUL THOMPSON IN BRUSSELS, FOR MAILONLINE
PUBLISHED: 10:36, 2 November 2017 | UPDATED: 18:12, 2 November 2017
A judge in Madrid has jailed eight former Catalan regional ministers behind the failed independence bid over fears they will attempt to flee the country.
The Deputy First Minister and seven of his senior colleagues were taken to a jail on the outskirts of the capital Madrid after appearing before the Spanish High Court to answer charges of sedition and rebellion.
The region's former leader Carles Puigdemont – who fled to Brussels with four of his colleagues on Monday – remains at large but has yet to comment on the action taken against his ministers.
A European arrest warrant has now been issued for Puigdemont along with the four others who failed to turn up in Madrid, newspaper La Vanguardia said. A spokeswoman for the High Court could not confirm the warrant had been issued.
Carles Puigdemont, the former president of Catalonia, and four other ex-Cabinet members are in Belgium and ignored court summonses to appear for questioning
The Catalan ministers were sacked from their positions after the Spanish Government invoked Article 155 to seize control of the regional Government following an illegal referendum on independence.
Those jailed overnight include the vice president Oriol Junqueras, Home Affairs Minister Joaquim Form, Foreign Affairs Minister Raul Romeva, Governance, Meritxell Borras, Presidency Jordi Tull, Social Affairs Minister Dolores Bassa, Justice Minister Carles Mundo and Terrotory Mnister Josep Rull.
Ex-Catalan president 'is planning to copy Julian Assange and...
'She doesn't know if she will ever see her husband again':...
Deposed Catalan President 'to return to face the music in...
Only Santi Vila, the former head of the Catalan business department, was granted bail and ordered to pay a bond of 50,000euro to stay out of jail.
The jailed ministers were taken from the court to the Soto del Real penitentiary outside Madrid".
It makes a number of instructive points to our brethren north of the border. The same would happen in the UK!
Perish the thought there might be a sintillia of schadenfreude in this post
"Eight sacked Catalan officials are JAILED as European arrest warrant is issued for ousted leader after he defied Spanish call to hand himself in
The Deputy First Minister and seven of his senior colleagues have been jailed
A European arrest warrant is expected to be issued against Carles Puigdemont
His lawyer in Belgium says 54-year-old intends to fight any extradition request
Nazi salutes and jeers greeted Catalan politicians as they arrived to hand themselves into police in Madrid
By JAKE WALLIS SIMONS, ASSOCIATE GLOBAL EDITOR, IN BARCELONA & PAUL THOMPSON IN BRUSSELS, FOR MAILONLINE
PUBLISHED: 10:36, 2 November 2017 | UPDATED: 18:12, 2 November 2017
A judge in Madrid has jailed eight former Catalan regional ministers behind the failed independence bid over fears they will attempt to flee the country.
The Deputy First Minister and seven of his senior colleagues were taken to a jail on the outskirts of the capital Madrid after appearing before the Spanish High Court to answer charges of sedition and rebellion.
The region's former leader Carles Puigdemont – who fled to Brussels with four of his colleagues on Monday – remains at large but has yet to comment on the action taken against his ministers.
A European arrest warrant has now been issued for Puigdemont along with the four others who failed to turn up in Madrid, newspaper La Vanguardia said. A spokeswoman for the High Court could not confirm the warrant had been issued.
Carles Puigdemont, the former president of Catalonia, and four other ex-Cabinet members are in Belgium and ignored court summonses to appear for questioning
The Catalan ministers were sacked from their positions after the Spanish Government invoked Article 155 to seize control of the regional Government following an illegal referendum on independence.
Those jailed overnight include the vice president Oriol Junqueras, Home Affairs Minister Joaquim Form, Foreign Affairs Minister Raul Romeva, Governance, Meritxell Borras, Presidency Jordi Tull, Social Affairs Minister Dolores Bassa, Justice Minister Carles Mundo and Terrotory Mnister Josep Rull.
Ex-Catalan president 'is planning to copy Julian Assange and...
'She doesn't know if she will ever see her husband again':...
Deposed Catalan President 'to return to face the music in...
Only Santi Vila, the former head of the Catalan business department, was granted bail and ordered to pay a bond of 50,000euro to stay out of jail.
The jailed ministers were taken from the court to the Soto del Real penitentiary outside Madrid".
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Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
Christ JM do you have a life? Or do your kids or grandkids have just as little time to listen to your waffle as most of us do on here?
Honestly you drag this thread to the top as it’s probably the only attention you get in life
Honestly you drag this thread to the top as it’s probably the only attention you get in life
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
Christ JM do you have a life? Or do your kids or grandkids have just as little time to listen to your waffle as most of us do on here?
Honestly you drag this thread to the top as it’s probably the only attention you get in life
"Christ", yes if that's your perception, who am I to argue.
You sound like a very frightened separatist, busy chopping up your SNP membership card.
Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
you are very misguided Was never a member
well I’m not allowed to say **** the right way but I wouldn’t even name you as the poop off that guys shoes so definitely not regardless of what your sizeable ego says to the contrary.Judgemental
Well-Known Member
Was never a member
One said "you sound like", not you are.
That said, it's all over for the SNP and all their wild aspirations to separatism.
The EU will never never entertain Ms Sturgeon and her merry band of separatists. Do they really want a bunch of folk akin to the Catalans. Of course not.
The rank and file of the SNP will evaporate. An EU member state (Spain) have set
a precedent and jailed a group of separatists.
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
This is the result of separatism and will be mirrored in Scotland in the event Ms Sturgeon and the SNP separate from the UK. UNEMPLOYMENT! :eek3: :eek3:
This thread would have never been originated, had Ms Sturgeon and the SNP not reneged on their deal with the government, concerning the amendment to the Hunting Act 2004.
For folk reading this, in the Opinion of the OP it is very unwise to renege on anything to do with hunting and horses. Folk never forget or forgive.......
"Catalonia crisis leaves 15,000 out of a job :eek3:
Graham Keeley, Barcelona
November 3 2017, 12:00pm,
The Times
Nearly 2,000 companies have moved their legal headquarters out of the region since the independence vote
SERGIO PEREZ/REUTERS
Almost 15,000 people lost their jobs in Catalonia last month as political instability eroded business confidence and triggered redundancies and hiring freezes.
The unemployment rate in Catalonia, Spain’s wealthiest region, rose at the highest rate in the country in October, a stark contrast to the same month last year when it fell by 43,000.
The numbers emerged as a judge prepared to issue a European arrest warrant today for the detention of Carles Puigdemont, the renegade former Catalan leader who is in Belgium."
This thread would have never been originated, had Ms Sturgeon and the SNP not reneged on their deal with the government, concerning the amendment to the Hunting Act 2004.
For folk reading this, in the Opinion of the OP it is very unwise to renege on anything to do with hunting and horses. Folk never forget or forgive.......
"Catalonia crisis leaves 15,000 out of a job :eek3:
Graham Keeley, Barcelona
November 3 2017, 12:00pm,
The Times
Nearly 2,000 companies have moved their legal headquarters out of the region since the independence vote
SERGIO PEREZ/REUTERS
Almost 15,000 people lost their jobs in Catalonia last month as political instability eroded business confidence and triggered redundancies and hiring freezes.
The unemployment rate in Catalonia, Spain’s wealthiest region, rose at the highest rate in the country in October, a stark contrast to the same month last year when it fell by 43,000.
The numbers emerged as a judge prepared to issue a European arrest warrant today for the detention of Carles Puigdemont, the renegade former Catalan leader who is in Belgium."
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
Well, I never thought I would agree with the SNP or Ms Sturgeon, about anything.
Yet we are as one on the subject of Fracking which makes me very uncomfortable and the Scottish ban is in my opinion welcome. I sincerely hope the attempt by INEOS to have the ban overturned by the Court of Session is unsuccessful.
It always intrigues me that the owner of INEOS and the Oil Refinery at Grangemouth is a Mr Jim Ratcliff who lives on the Beaulieu River in Hampshire and has his office in Lyndhurst in the middle of the New Forest all about as far from Grangemouth and Scotland as possible. Interestingly INEOS also has an office in Rolle Switzerland.
Also interestingly INEOS recently bought the oil pipeline from BP from the 40's field which has had to be immediately shut down because it is leaking.
Good on you Ms Sturgeon and the SNP, just for once you have your eye on the ball and you are doing the right thing.
There is far far more to this subject collectively!
Energy group Ineos to challenge Scotland's ban on fracking
Elisabeth O'Leary
EDINBURGH (Reuters) - Energy group Ineos has applied to launch a legal challenge to the Scottish government’s ban on onshore unconventional oil and gas development in Scotland, known as “fracking”, arguing the ban was imposed unlawfully.
FILE PHOTO: A logo is pictured in the headquarters of INEOS chemicals company in Rolle, Switzerland, November 13, 2017. REUTERS/Denis Balibouse
Scotland decided to outlaw fracking in October after a public consultation found overwhelming opposition to it.
However, Ineos said that decision flew in the face of other expert reports conducted several years earlier which concluded that shale gas could be produced safely and has applied for a judicial review.
The application will be heard at the Court of Session, Scotland’s supreme civil court, and the company expects a decision on whether there is a case to be heard within a couple of months, INEOS Shale operations director Tom Pickering told Reuters.
Yet we are as one on the subject of Fracking which makes me very uncomfortable and the Scottish ban is in my opinion welcome. I sincerely hope the attempt by INEOS to have the ban overturned by the Court of Session is unsuccessful.
It always intrigues me that the owner of INEOS and the Oil Refinery at Grangemouth is a Mr Jim Ratcliff who lives on the Beaulieu River in Hampshire and has his office in Lyndhurst in the middle of the New Forest all about as far from Grangemouth and Scotland as possible. Interestingly INEOS also has an office in Rolle Switzerland.
Also interestingly INEOS recently bought the oil pipeline from BP from the 40's field which has had to be immediately shut down because it is leaking.
Good on you Ms Sturgeon and the SNP, just for once you have your eye on the ball and you are doing the right thing.
There is far far more to this subject collectively!
Energy group Ineos to challenge Scotland's ban on fracking
Elisabeth O'Leary
EDINBURGH (Reuters) - Energy group Ineos has applied to launch a legal challenge to the Scottish government’s ban on onshore unconventional oil and gas development in Scotland, known as “fracking”, arguing the ban was imposed unlawfully.
FILE PHOTO: A logo is pictured in the headquarters of INEOS chemicals company in Rolle, Switzerland, November 13, 2017. REUTERS/Denis Balibouse
Scotland decided to outlaw fracking in October after a public consultation found overwhelming opposition to it.
However, Ineos said that decision flew in the face of other expert reports conducted several years earlier which concluded that shale gas could be produced safely and has applied for a judicial review.
The application will be heard at the Court of Session, Scotland’s supreme civil court, and the company expects a decision on whether there is a case to be heard within a couple of months, INEOS Shale operations director Tom Pickering told Reuters.
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Judgemental
Well-Known Member
Ledgered twice in error
Well, I never thought I would agree with the SNP or Ms Sturgeon, about anything.
Yet we are as one on the subject of Fracking which makes me very uncomfortable and the Scottish ban is in my opinion welcome. I sincerely hope the attempt by INEOS to have the ban overturned by the Court of Session is unsuccessful.
It always intrigues me that the owner of INEOS and the Oil Refinery at Grangemouth is a Mr Jim Ratcliff who lives on the Beaulieu River in Hampshire and has his office in Lyndhurst in the middle of the New Forest all about as far from Grangemouth and Scotland as possible. Interestingly INEOS also has an office in Rolle Switzerland.
Also interestingly INEOS recently bought the oil pipeline from BP from the 40's field which has had to be immediately shut down because it is leaking.
Good on you Ms Sturgeon and the SNP, just for once you have your eye on the ball and you are doing the right thing.
There is far far more to this subject collectively!
Energy group Ineos to challenge Scotland's ban on fracking
Elisabeth O'Leary
EDINBURGH (Reuters) - Energy group Ineos has applied to launch a legal challenge to the Scottish government’s ban on onshore unconventional oil and gas development in Scotland, known as “fracking”, arguing the ban was imposed unlawfully.
FILE PHOTO: A logo is pictured in the headquarters of INEOS chemicals company in Rolle, Switzerland, November 13, 2017. REUTERS/Denis Balibouse
Scotland decided to outlaw fracking in October after a public consultation found overwhelming opposition to it.
However, Ineos said that decision flew in the face of other expert reports conducted several years earlier which concluded that shale gas could be produced safely and has applied for a judicial review.
The application will be heard at the Court of Session, Scotland’s supreme civil court, and the company expects a decision on whether there is a case to be heard within a couple of months, INEOS Shale operations director Tom Pickering told Reuters.
Well, I never thought I would agree with the SNP or Ms Sturgeon, about anything.
Yet we are as one on the subject of Fracking which makes me very uncomfortable and the Scottish ban is in my opinion welcome. I sincerely hope the attempt by INEOS to have the ban overturned by the Court of Session is unsuccessful.
It always intrigues me that the owner of INEOS and the Oil Refinery at Grangemouth is a Mr Jim Ratcliff who lives on the Beaulieu River in Hampshire and has his office in Lyndhurst in the middle of the New Forest all about as far from Grangemouth and Scotland as possible. Interestingly INEOS also has an office in Rolle Switzerland.
Also interestingly INEOS recently bought the oil pipeline from BP from the 40's field which has had to be immediately shut down because it is leaking.
Good on you Ms Sturgeon and the SNP, just for once you have your eye on the ball and you are doing the right thing.
There is far far more to this subject collectively!
Energy group Ineos to challenge Scotland's ban on fracking
Elisabeth O'Leary
EDINBURGH (Reuters) - Energy group Ineos has applied to launch a legal challenge to the Scottish government’s ban on onshore unconventional oil and gas development in Scotland, known as “fracking”, arguing the ban was imposed unlawfully.
FILE PHOTO: A logo is pictured in the headquarters of INEOS chemicals company in Rolle, Switzerland, November 13, 2017. REUTERS/Denis Balibouse
Scotland decided to outlaw fracking in October after a public consultation found overwhelming opposition to it.
However, Ineos said that decision flew in the face of other expert reports conducted several years earlier which concluded that shale gas could be produced safely and has applied for a judicial review.
The application will be heard at the Court of Session, Scotland’s supreme civil court, and the company expects a decision on whether there is a case to be heard within a couple of months, INEOS Shale operations director Tom Pickering told Reuters.
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Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
So with much of the decision making for the Scots devolved to the Scottish parliament, their decision that they don't want fracking and-or they've refused a quote, is illegal?
So by the same level of lunacy, a window salesman can come to my house, offer to quote for replacement windows, I turn him down and he can sue me?
We're in a world of madness, that we know, but if there is any case to answer, **** **. It all rather smacks of Trump and golf courses, doesn't it?
Alec.
So by the same level of lunacy, a window salesman can come to my house, offer to quote for replacement windows, I turn him down and he can sue me?
We're in a world of madness, that we know, but if there is any case to answer, **** **. It all rather smacks of Trump and golf courses, doesn't it?
Alec.
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
Alec this is a unique subject which will I suggest, may become very significant.
Bear in mind Ineos declared Force Majeure on all oil contracts being pumped out of the Forties field, the moment they purchased the aging pipeline from BP because of an alleged leak. Curious very.
However, folk need to remind themselves of the following:
"Ineos writes down Grangemouth assets to zero - Telegraph
www.telegraph.co.uk › Finance › News by Sector › Pharmaceuticals and Chemicals
4 Oct 2013 - Ineos has cranked up pressure on the unions by writing down the value of its Grangemouth chemicals plant from £400m to zero and warning that it will close the facility unless it can cut costs".
Whilst I have consistently lamented matters where the SNP are concerned.
However, I feel very sorry for the people of Scotland and the SNP if the Fracking comes to pass.
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
Since the following report in The Scottish Daily Record, a) Ineos purchased the Forties Oil Pipe Line, shortly before Christmas 2017 which was promptly closed on the basis of an alleged leak b) there has been a general election and a weakened government has been returned.
Folk in Scotland would do well to ask a huge number of questions?????????
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk › News › Scottish News › FPS
Scottish News
FPS
Fury at billionaire Jim Ratcliffe 'bringing North Sea oil and gas pipelines under his control'
If the deal goes ahead the fracking supporter and owner of Grangemouth Refinary will have control of the pipeline system bringing in one million barrels a day from offshore fields.
By
Annie Brown &
Charlie Gall,
18:38, 16 MAR 2017
Updated18:40, 16 MAR 2017
News
Billionaire boss of petrochemical giant Ineos Jim Ratcliffe has the pipelines which bring North Sea oil and gas ashore within his grasp, the Daily Record can reveal.
The owner of the Grangemouth Refinery is in talks with oil giant BP to buy the Forties Pipeline System (FPS) which would give him control over potentially more than one million barrels a day from offshore fields.
Fury erupted last night (Thurs) at the prospect of fracking supporter Ratcliffe, with his history of bad industrial relations, seizing the reins of such a strategic network.
Ratcliffe has been the driving force behind bringing the shale gas industry - onshore drilling known as fracking - to Scotland but has so far been thwarted by a Scottish Government ban.
One shocked oil industry source who fears putting the pipelines in Ratcliffe’s control said: “Holy *****. This would be like giving a monkey a machete.
“Letting Jim Ratcliffe loose on all the operators who feed into that pipeline is a dangerous, dangerous ploy.
“He could at a stroke just cull that whole region with ownership of that pipeline by increasing tariffs. Oil operators pay tariffs to put their product into the pipeline.
“If he were to start messing companies about with increased tariffs and everything else it could make their operations uneconomical.”
Another source said: “Rafferty already has one major bit of national infrastructure in his hands which he threatened to close in 2015, now he’s going to get another if this deal goes ahead - and that’s a concern.”
Last night both BP and Ineos confirmed to the Record that they were in discussions “regarding a potential sale”.
BP owns all of the Forties pipeline system and the oil that flows through the system is critical in setting the price of Dated Brent, an international crude benchmark.
Ratcliffe is notorious for the tough line he took in 2013 with workers at Grangemouth, Scotland’s biggest industrial site.
After a dispute over the suspension of a shop steward, he closed the plant and vowed to walk away for good unless workers accepted major cuts to their pensions and conditions.
Last night a Government source moved to allay fears that Ratcliffe could hold the country to ransom by gaining control of the FPS.
The Whitehall insider said that such large deals can be referred to the UK government for review and if there were any serious risk to the UK infrastructure Ministers could intervene.
They pointed out: “The UK Oil and Gas Authority issue permits to operate the pipeline infrastructure and operators in the North Sea are obliged to comply with their policy of ‘maximum economic recovery’. If they do not the Authority can stop the permit and re-issue it to another operator.”
In effect, if Ineos were to “turn off the tap”, the Government could strip the company of its pipeline control and award it elsewhere.
The Government insider added: “Also, there are so many contracts with suppliers coming on and off the pipeline that the commercial consequences of a close down would be disastrous for an operator.”
However an industry insider said: “There’s still the spectre of someone like Ratcliffe who’s pushing the fracking agenda being able to cause problems by holding such control over a key element of our energy industry.
“Despite the safeguards, he could still make life difficult to bring pressure to bear on Government and who’s to say he couldn’t absorb any losses incurred during that time.”
Folk in Scotland would do well to ask a huge number of questions?????????
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk › News › Scottish News › FPS
Scottish News
FPS
Fury at billionaire Jim Ratcliffe 'bringing North Sea oil and gas pipelines under his control'
If the deal goes ahead the fracking supporter and owner of Grangemouth Refinary will have control of the pipeline system bringing in one million barrels a day from offshore fields.
By
Annie Brown &
Charlie Gall,
18:38, 16 MAR 2017
Updated18:40, 16 MAR 2017
News
Billionaire boss of petrochemical giant Ineos Jim Ratcliffe has the pipelines which bring North Sea oil and gas ashore within his grasp, the Daily Record can reveal.
The owner of the Grangemouth Refinery is in talks with oil giant BP to buy the Forties Pipeline System (FPS) which would give him control over potentially more than one million barrels a day from offshore fields.
Fury erupted last night (Thurs) at the prospect of fracking supporter Ratcliffe, with his history of bad industrial relations, seizing the reins of such a strategic network.
Ratcliffe has been the driving force behind bringing the shale gas industry - onshore drilling known as fracking - to Scotland but has so far been thwarted by a Scottish Government ban.
One shocked oil industry source who fears putting the pipelines in Ratcliffe’s control said: “Holy *****. This would be like giving a monkey a machete.
“Letting Jim Ratcliffe loose on all the operators who feed into that pipeline is a dangerous, dangerous ploy.
“He could at a stroke just cull that whole region with ownership of that pipeline by increasing tariffs. Oil operators pay tariffs to put their product into the pipeline.
“If he were to start messing companies about with increased tariffs and everything else it could make their operations uneconomical.”
Another source said: “Rafferty already has one major bit of national infrastructure in his hands which he threatened to close in 2015, now he’s going to get another if this deal goes ahead - and that’s a concern.”
Last night both BP and Ineos confirmed to the Record that they were in discussions “regarding a potential sale”.
BP owns all of the Forties pipeline system and the oil that flows through the system is critical in setting the price of Dated Brent, an international crude benchmark.
Ratcliffe is notorious for the tough line he took in 2013 with workers at Grangemouth, Scotland’s biggest industrial site.
After a dispute over the suspension of a shop steward, he closed the plant and vowed to walk away for good unless workers accepted major cuts to their pensions and conditions.
Last night a Government source moved to allay fears that Ratcliffe could hold the country to ransom by gaining control of the FPS.
The Whitehall insider said that such large deals can be referred to the UK government for review and if there were any serious risk to the UK infrastructure Ministers could intervene.
They pointed out: “The UK Oil and Gas Authority issue permits to operate the pipeline infrastructure and operators in the North Sea are obliged to comply with their policy of ‘maximum economic recovery’. If they do not the Authority can stop the permit and re-issue it to another operator.”
In effect, if Ineos were to “turn off the tap”, the Government could strip the company of its pipeline control and award it elsewhere.
The Government insider added: “Also, there are so many contracts with suppliers coming on and off the pipeline that the commercial consequences of a close down would be disastrous for an operator.”
However an industry insider said: “There’s still the spectre of someone like Ratcliffe who’s pushing the fracking agenda being able to cause problems by holding such control over a key element of our energy industry.
“Despite the safeguards, he could still make life difficult to bring pressure to bear on Government and who’s to say he couldn’t absorb any losses incurred during that time.”
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Judgemental
Well-Known Member
There are many reasons to ban Fracking.
One very good reason is the matter of Private Water supplies and Ground Surface water that horses inevitably drink. Where mains water is not supplied.
I say inevitably because 'inevitably' water that has come into contact with Fracking and the chemicals that are used, inevitably and eventually comes to the surface.
Why the equine world and industry has not been far more proactive is a mystery.
One very good reason is the matter of Private Water supplies and Ground Surface water that horses inevitably drink. Where mains water is not supplied.
I say inevitably because 'inevitably' water that has come into contact with Fracking and the chemicals that are used, inevitably and eventually comes to the surface.
Why the equine world and industry has not been far more proactive is a mystery.
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
Equally the same applies to drinking water in streams, ponds and burns for cattle, sheep and deer.
Particularly considering the deep aquifers.
Aquifer - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquifer
An aquifer is an underground layer of water-bearing permeable rock, rock fractures or unconsolidated materials (gravel, sand, or silt) from which groundwater can be extracted using a water well. The study of water flow in aquifers and the characterization of aquifers is called hydrogeology.
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Judgemental
Well-Known Member
From The Rotherham Advertiser:
'Bypassed' planners accuse fracking firm of arrogance
By Gareth Dennison | 25/01/2018
'Bypassed' planners accuse fracking firm of arrogance
Cllr Alan Atkin
ROTHERHAM’S planning board chairman held back tears as he defended council officers from criticism by fracking firm Ineos.
Emotional Cllr Alan Atkin said the way RMBC staff had been treated by the chemical company was “appalling”.
Ineos appealed against non-determination, claiming the council had taken too long to make a decision on the Harthill drilling application.
The move came weeks after RMBC stated that it was minded to refuse the application because of fears about road access.
The planning board met today to discuss what evidence it will take to the Planning Inspectorate’s public inquiry, where the decision will be made.
Cllr Atkin said: “Our planning officers are some of the best in Britain. They have been treated badly by Ineos and, quite frankly, it’s shameful.
“We’ve got many testimonials from people up and down the country to say that our officers bend over backwards to help developers.”
Vice chairman Cllr Simon Tweed told the meeting: “I’m very sorry to the people of Harthill that we’re not here as a planning board, being able to make the decision.
“These planning officers, to say they delayed this application is absolutely rubbish. All they did was give Ineos more time.
“Ineos didn’t want the planning board members to make this decision.”
Cllr Jenny Whysall said: “Ineos have denied public democracy. I think they have acted very badly on that score.”
And Cllr Richard Price added: “I’m quite shocked by what appears to be contempt by Ineos for local democracy. It kind of stinks of corporate greed and arrogance.”
'Bypassed' planners accuse fracking firm of arrogance
By Gareth Dennison | 25/01/2018
'Bypassed' planners accuse fracking firm of arrogance
Cllr Alan Atkin
ROTHERHAM’S planning board chairman held back tears as he defended council officers from criticism by fracking firm Ineos.
Emotional Cllr Alan Atkin said the way RMBC staff had been treated by the chemical company was “appalling”.
Ineos appealed against non-determination, claiming the council had taken too long to make a decision on the Harthill drilling application.
The move came weeks after RMBC stated that it was minded to refuse the application because of fears about road access.
The planning board met today to discuss what evidence it will take to the Planning Inspectorate’s public inquiry, where the decision will be made.
Cllr Atkin said: “Our planning officers are some of the best in Britain. They have been treated badly by Ineos and, quite frankly, it’s shameful.
“We’ve got many testimonials from people up and down the country to say that our officers bend over backwards to help developers.”
Vice chairman Cllr Simon Tweed told the meeting: “I’m very sorry to the people of Harthill that we’re not here as a planning board, being able to make the decision.
“These planning officers, to say they delayed this application is absolutely rubbish. All they did was give Ineos more time.
“Ineos didn’t want the planning board members to make this decision.”
Cllr Jenny Whysall said: “Ineos have denied public democracy. I think they have acted very badly on that score.”
And Cllr Richard Price added: “I’m quite shocked by what appears to be contempt by Ineos for local democracy. It kind of stinks of corporate greed and arrogance.”
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
A visit to Twitter and enter either Jim Ratcliffe and/or Ineos in the search box is to say the least, frightening!
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
102544 views. That must be some sort of a record on this Forum?
Fracking and all that it entails will become a highly vexed subject.
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
Undoubtedly Fracking is a complete disaster for water supplies!
From The Sheffield Telegraph 13 February 2018.
"Ron Coyle, new CEO of Ineos Shale made one really scary remark. This former US army captain stated that there is enough gas underground to “meet the UK’s energy demands for over 100 years”. Up to now the frackers’ propaganda has been to reassure the authorities that shale gas is for short-term energy security, to bridge a supposed 20 – to 40-year gap between the end of North Sea oil and renewable sources. Coyle’s promise of 100 years of fracking is a very different ball game. Do the maths? A fracking Licence Area is a 6x6 mile block. Within each block, 15 to 30 well pads could be built in the next few years. To take the Marsh Lane ‘test’ site as an example, picture the countryside and villages between Norton to Staveley, or Mosborough to Dronfield infected by a pox of such ‘pads. Each well up to two miles deep and capable of penetrating horizontally for another mile. It would then be ’fractured’ with a high pressure blast’ of a water/chemical mix to get the gas to flow. Eight to 12 wells could be sunk from each pad, say 150 per block. Ineos has purchased rights to 20 such licence blocks within 30 miles of Sheffield and another 40 within 60-80 miles. You do the maths. The company boasts an ambition to become the major player in fracking across England, snapping up weaker competitors as they fail. This tactic has been repeated again and again in the last 20 years to make Coyle’s ultimate boss, rags-to-riches Jim Ratcliffe, one of the richest men in Britain at £6 billion. Fracking will not reduce our gas bills. Some of the shale gas from here will be piped to Ineos’s massive petro-chemical works in Scotland. There they are the leading UK manufacturer of non-recyclable plastics. Plastic pollution starts at Grangemouth. Sir David Attenborough should be told. A turning point? Within the UK only England remains open to fracking. Wales, Ireland, France, Germany, and several states in the USA have already banned it. Four months ago Ineos were kicked in the teeth by the Scottish government’s vote for a moratorium on fracking, despite the company’s near stranglehold over Scotland’s fuel economy. Ratcliffe, Coyle and Co are desperate to secure an advanced toehold in the Sheffield region before the political tide turns against them in England under a weakened Tory government. Last week in the Derbyshire County Planning Committee, Tory and Labour councillors united nine to one, not to support the application to sink a ‘test’ shale gas well at Marsh Lane. Short-term victory, but Ineos is determined to bulldoze over local opinion. Battle resumes in four months with the government’s Planning Inspectorate. This is a question of democracy and who has the power. It is not just NIMBY moaning, or ‘lefty-green’ environmental fantasy. It is about how much power can private firms be allowed to wield for their own profit in the face of public opinion? England should follow the lead of the nations around us – the whole UK should be frack-free"
Read more at: https://www.sheffieldtelegraph.co.u...king-epidemic-to-last-for-100-years-1-9015598
From The Sheffield Telegraph 13 February 2018.
"Ron Coyle, new CEO of Ineos Shale made one really scary remark. This former US army captain stated that there is enough gas underground to “meet the UK’s energy demands for over 100 years”. Up to now the frackers’ propaganda has been to reassure the authorities that shale gas is for short-term energy security, to bridge a supposed 20 – to 40-year gap between the end of North Sea oil and renewable sources. Coyle’s promise of 100 years of fracking is a very different ball game. Do the maths? A fracking Licence Area is a 6x6 mile block. Within each block, 15 to 30 well pads could be built in the next few years. To take the Marsh Lane ‘test’ site as an example, picture the countryside and villages between Norton to Staveley, or Mosborough to Dronfield infected by a pox of such ‘pads. Each well up to two miles deep and capable of penetrating horizontally for another mile. It would then be ’fractured’ with a high pressure blast’ of a water/chemical mix to get the gas to flow. Eight to 12 wells could be sunk from each pad, say 150 per block. Ineos has purchased rights to 20 such licence blocks within 30 miles of Sheffield and another 40 within 60-80 miles. You do the maths. The company boasts an ambition to become the major player in fracking across England, snapping up weaker competitors as they fail. This tactic has been repeated again and again in the last 20 years to make Coyle’s ultimate boss, rags-to-riches Jim Ratcliffe, one of the richest men in Britain at £6 billion. Fracking will not reduce our gas bills. Some of the shale gas from here will be piped to Ineos’s massive petro-chemical works in Scotland. There they are the leading UK manufacturer of non-recyclable plastics. Plastic pollution starts at Grangemouth. Sir David Attenborough should be told. A turning point? Within the UK only England remains open to fracking. Wales, Ireland, France, Germany, and several states in the USA have already banned it. Four months ago Ineos were kicked in the teeth by the Scottish government’s vote for a moratorium on fracking, despite the company’s near stranglehold over Scotland’s fuel economy. Ratcliffe, Coyle and Co are desperate to secure an advanced toehold in the Sheffield region before the political tide turns against them in England under a weakened Tory government. Last week in the Derbyshire County Planning Committee, Tory and Labour councillors united nine to one, not to support the application to sink a ‘test’ shale gas well at Marsh Lane. Short-term victory, but Ineos is determined to bulldoze over local opinion. Battle resumes in four months with the government’s Planning Inspectorate. This is a question of democracy and who has the power. It is not just NIMBY moaning, or ‘lefty-green’ environmental fantasy. It is about how much power can private firms be allowed to wield for their own profit in the face of public opinion? England should follow the lead of the nations around us – the whole UK should be frack-free"
Read more at: https://www.sheffieldtelegraph.co.u...king-epidemic-to-last-for-100-years-1-9015598
fburton
Well-Known Member
Fracking updates appreciated, Judgemental. It's a worrying issue.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
OH does a neutral presentation to local groups about fracking.
The essence of the presentation can be summed up as follows.
Fracking has a high impact on the local area while it is operation but this is associated with a local economic boom.
Fracking has a high visual impact on the local area when compete, with concrete beds and storage tanks close together in largely rural areas.
There are a number of concerns about potential pollution but they are much lower than activists would have you believe. Lower does not mean non-existent. Wells are, for example far below the aquifers and in theory cannot contaminate them - unless the cladding on the drill hole fails higer up (Deepwater Horizon).
On a national level, we may in future be unable to power and feed the country without it, in which case it would be a necessity which overrides all local planning and environmental considerations.
Fracking is not currently economically viable. Even in the vast shale beds in the US, wells are failing earlier than expected, and new wells are being financed with new investment, not with any profit (because there is none) from existing operations.
Hope that helps. Any mistakes are OHs, not mine but I can provide the presentation and data if anyone wants a copy. PM your email address. If you are local, he doesn't charge for the presentation to charities.
PS we are right on the Cheshire basin fracking area and can see the lorries going into a test drill site that is being kept quiet.
The essence of the presentation can be summed up as follows.
Fracking has a high impact on the local area while it is operation but this is associated with a local economic boom.
Fracking has a high visual impact on the local area when compete, with concrete beds and storage tanks close together in largely rural areas.
There are a number of concerns about potential pollution but they are much lower than activists would have you believe. Lower does not mean non-existent. Wells are, for example far below the aquifers and in theory cannot contaminate them - unless the cladding on the drill hole fails higer up (Deepwater Horizon).
On a national level, we may in future be unable to power and feed the country without it, in which case it would be a necessity which overrides all local planning and environmental considerations.
Fracking is not currently economically viable. Even in the vast shale beds in the US, wells are failing earlier than expected, and new wells are being financed with new investment, not with any profit (because there is none) from existing operations.
Hope that helps. Any mistakes are OHs, not mine
but I can provide the presentation and data if anyone wants a copy. PM your email address. If you are local, he doesn't charge for the presentation to charities.PS we are right on the Cheshire basin fracking area and can see the lorries going into a test drill site that is being kept quiet.
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Judgemental
Well-Known Member
The geography of the British Isles is far too small and condensed to cope with contamination of water supplied due to Fracking.
Whereas the geography and topography of the United States and huge distances, mitigates the damage and risk.
Anybody with a private water supply should automatically oppose Fracking
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
There is a remarkable paradox contained in the issue of Fracking, The National Trust and the latter's issue when it comes to hunting. Wake up folks, your land is no longer your land or the water thereon or thereunder.
"Ineos given permission to take High Court action for fracking survey
By Press Association
Published: 16:53, 22 February 2018 | Updated: 16:53, 22 February 2018
A bid by energy giant Ineos to carry out a fracking survey on National Trust land is to be heard in court.
The company has been granted permission to pursue its application to undertake a geophysical survey in Clumber Park, Nottinghamshire, to the High Court.
Lynn Calder, commercial director of Ineos Shale, said: “Legal action has been the last resort and we have used powers which prevent landowners from blocking projects which benefit the wider community and the nation as a whole.
Ineos to take legal action to allow access for shale survey at Clumber Park (National Trust/PA)
Ineos to take legal action to allow access for shale survey at Clumber Park (National Trust/PA)
“These surveys are both routine and necessary across the UK, including on National Trust land.
“The National Trust’s position is very disappointing as we have had positive relationships with a range of stakeholders and landowners during surveys.
“We have addressed a variety of stakeholder concerns in the past and are sorry the National Trust wouldn’t even have discussions with us in this case owing to a political objection to shale gas.”
The National Trust said: “Our founding principle is to protect the beautiful places in our care, and we believe Ineos has not yet followed the proper planning process, which would involve them fully considering the potential environmental impacts.
“Clumber Park is a Grade I listed park and gardens, much of which is a Site of Special Scientific Interest, and visited by over half a million people each year.
“In our view, Ineos haven’t demonstrated to the Trust why it is necessary to carry out any surveys here or address our other reasons for refusing to grant access.
“We have no wish for our land to play any part in extracting gas or oil. We are already seeing the impacts of climate change at many of our places, and we have launched a programme to dramatically cut our own fossil fuel usage at our properties.”
Ineos said if shale gas proves to be successful it provides the UK economy with competitive energy as well as investment and jobs in the North of England.
Guy Shrubsole, Friends of the Earth campaigner, said: “A huge fracking firm suing the National Trust to test for shale gas within the historic Sherwood Forest area will make people wonder what is sacred any more.
“The spirit of Robin Hood will be bridling at these bully-boy tactics.”
"Ineos given permission to take High Court action for fracking survey
By Press Association
Published: 16:53, 22 February 2018 | Updated: 16:53, 22 February 2018
A bid by energy giant Ineos to carry out a fracking survey on National Trust land is to be heard in court.
The company has been granted permission to pursue its application to undertake a geophysical survey in Clumber Park, Nottinghamshire, to the High Court.
Lynn Calder, commercial director of Ineos Shale, said: “Legal action has been the last resort and we have used powers which prevent landowners from blocking projects which benefit the wider community and the nation as a whole.
Ineos to take legal action to allow access for shale survey at Clumber Park (National Trust/PA)
Ineos to take legal action to allow access for shale survey at Clumber Park (National Trust/PA)
“These surveys are both routine and necessary across the UK, including on National Trust land.
“The National Trust’s position is very disappointing as we have had positive relationships with a range of stakeholders and landowners during surveys.
“We have addressed a variety of stakeholder concerns in the past and are sorry the National Trust wouldn’t even have discussions with us in this case owing to a political objection to shale gas.”
The National Trust said: “Our founding principle is to protect the beautiful places in our care, and we believe Ineos has not yet followed the proper planning process, which would involve them fully considering the potential environmental impacts.
“Clumber Park is a Grade I listed park and gardens, much of which is a Site of Special Scientific Interest, and visited by over half a million people each year.
“In our view, Ineos haven’t demonstrated to the Trust why it is necessary to carry out any surveys here or address our other reasons for refusing to grant access.
“We have no wish for our land to play any part in extracting gas or oil. We are already seeing the impacts of climate change at many of our places, and we have launched a programme to dramatically cut our own fossil fuel usage at our properties.”
Ineos said if shale gas proves to be successful it provides the UK economy with competitive energy as well as investment and jobs in the North of England.
Guy Shrubsole, Friends of the Earth campaigner, said: “A huge fracking firm suing the National Trust to test for shale gas within the historic Sherwood Forest area will make people wonder what is sacred any more.
“The spirit of Robin Hood will be bridling at these bully-boy tactics.”