They say never meet your childhood hero....

[ycbm]

Were these general public, or military bases?

A mix of both at the same time, I only went to general state schools even when we lived in married quarters. I'm amazed that it wasn't normal for you and your sister to hear the S, M and C words fairly routinely, it certainly was for me. Did you have any brothers or play with boys much? It was normally boys who were saying it.
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[YorksG]

If anyone had used those words at either of the village schools, they would very quickly have been put on their place, as would anyone using them in any of the social groups. we had a mixture of people with intellectual and physical difficulties attend our village school and there was a very strong ethos of inclusivity.
This was common among the pennine mill villages from over a century ago

 

[ycbm]

If anyone had used those words at either of the village schools, they would very quickly have been put on their place, as would anyone using them in any of the social groups. we had a mixture of people with intellectual and physical difficulties attend our village school and there was a very strong ethos of inclusivity.
This was common among the pennine mill villages from over a century ago

I would expect that to be the case in most places now, 50-60 years after the time I was describing. Things have changed.
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[YorksG]

I would expect that to be the case in most places now, 50-60 years after the time I was describing. Things have changed.
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No I am talking about 50 years and more ago!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I'm not going to highlight any particular posts but there have been a few "she's of a certain age she probably doesn't realise" comments, which is what I was referring to. Most of us in and around that age would well remember when words that were commonly used became utterly unacceptable. And have had a few decades since to practise not using them.

And not only that but would not have used those particular words to describe people to whom they were not applicable, as an insult *at any point*.
To get back to OP, whether or not LG knows that those particular words are considered unacceptable, even to describe people living with those conditions, what on earth makes her think that it is acceptable to insult people who are paying for your services?

 

[ycbm]

No I am talking about 50 years and more ago!

That's what I said, it was 50-60 years ago that the bad stuff was happening outside your area and I would expect all areas to be more like yours was by now.
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[Pearlsasinger]

That's what I said, it was 50-60 years ago
.

????????

 

[windand rain]

Under no circumstances is it currently acceptable but 60 years ago it was normal for kids especially boys playing football to call each others these names now it is cruder and just as offensive f*****g T**ts or other such insults. I guess things move on but stay the same. I was brought up in a very sheltered and proper environment but still heard the insults hurled at those who appeared not to understand being called all the disabled names as an insult and yes my disabled downs cousin was referred to as a M***** no one had ever heard of Downs in those days
I will also add that I was never allowed to insult people in any way and would have been belted round the ear if I had another thing that has changed

 

[Sussexbythesea]

I do remember such terms as “spastic” being commonly used in the playground. Kids used to use the word “Joey” said in a slurred kind of way whilst smacking the back one hand with the other to indicate you’d done something stupid. It wasn’t until some years later that I twigged it was in reference to Joey Deacon featured in Blue Peter. I certainly didn’t understand at the time where it was derived from and how awful the usage was. Shameful when I think of it.

These days I am the sort of person who would call out use of offensive language these days but do believe in most cases education is better than vilification.

 

[Annagain]

Those words weren’t used in full when I was a kid in the 80s but shortened versions certainly were and usually to refer to somebody (usually a friend) saying/doind something particularly stupid (in terms of the Downs Syndrome related word) or physically inept (with the cerebral palsy related word). I don’t think we ever realised what they actually were short for (I certainly didn’t) and we would never have used the words in full. As soon as I did work it out (I’d have been in my early teens) I never used them again.

I understand that someone might but uneducated in these matters (my FiL law genuinely though “ethnics” was the correct term until OH told him) but once it’s pointed out to you it is entirely possible to change your habits if you care enough about it.

One of the things that annoys me the most is when somebody says “he/she is Downs Syndrome”. They are not the condition and the condition is not them. “He/she has Downs Syndrome” is no more difficult to say and so much more representative of the person.

 

[milliepops]

A mix of both at the same time, I only went to general state schools even when we lived in married quarters. I'm amazed that it wasn't normal for you and your sister to hear the S, M and C words fairly routinely, it certainly was for me. Did you have any brothers or play with boys much? It was normally boys who were saying it.
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all those words were in common use when i was at school in the 80s/90s.
Round here it was about the time the S word started to feel iffy.
state primary and secondary. I don't think anyone knew that M and C were *wrong* at that point.
I just remembered in the early 2000s working at a place that used the word Flid which is also pretty offensive. Given the context i honestly think no one knew the background.

 

[little_critter]

all those words were in common use when i was at school in the 80s/90s.
Round here it was about the time the S word started to feel iffy.
state primary and secondary. I don't think anyone knew that M and C were *wrong* at that point.
I just remembered in the early 2000s working at a place that used the word Flid which is also pretty offensive. Given the context i honestly think no one knew the background.

I’ve honestly never heard of flid, i had to google to understand that one.

 

[Winters100]

This continued reference to 'older people' and 'things were different in those days' drives me mad! I am 66 and it would never, ever have occurred to me to use words such as 'cretin' and 'spastic' to refer to people in any context. I have been wondering if this is because of my extensive professional training in equality issues etc but then, I thought 'long before I had any such training, I would never have described any-one in those terms'. So no, things were NOT different 'in those days', and it still drives me mad!

100% agree. These may have been words used by some in the past, but they were never acceptable, in the same way that there are many commonly used words today which no polite person would dream of using.

I learned very young that this sort of thing was not acceptable. I don't know how old I was, but younger than 8 as I was still at day school, and my Father heard me laughing with a friend at how bad another child was at tennis, and using an unacceptable word to describe them. He made me walk the 9 miles home from the tennis courts while following in the car to make sure that I was safe. It took a few hours, when we got home I could see how disappointed he was with me, and he just told me that I had no right to laugh at anyone else or to call them names, ever. I still feel ashamed of it to this day, but it was a good lesson, as it has never been forgotten.

 

[windand rain]

I didn'tknow what flid was in my area it means having a temper tantrum

 

[onemoretime]

Oh no.

Feel free to post the name of this person, this really needs to be known.

Belittling participants in front of others is bad enough, but calling them s*astics is totally offensive and appalling .

From wiki

Disabled people in the United Kingdom often consider "s*astic" to be one of the most offensive terms related to disability.

Agree this person needs to be know! what a nasty unkind name to call someone!

 

[onemoretime]

OK here goes.
Sadly it was Lucinda Green.
I'm sure she would say she meant no offence etc etc. But I took offence. As I'm sure others must have. It's not OK.
I was overall just really disappointed with the whole thing.

Wow I would not have believed it of her. What is the matter with her????

 

[onemoretime]

Not at all surprised, Tim Stockdale was the worst of the bunch, Ellen Whittaker a waste of money. The only one how was remotely helpful was Geoff Billington

I went to watch a Tim Stockdale demo once and he was lovely. He was very funny without being offensive and I found him to be a very nice man.

 

[ycbm]

100% agree. These may have been words used by some in the past, but they were never acceptable, in the same way that there are many commonly used words today which no polite person would dream of using.

I learned very young that this sort of thing was not acceptable. I don't know how old I was, but younger than 8 as I was still at day school, and my Father heard me laughing with a friend at how bad another child was at tennis, and using an unacceptable word to describe them. He made me walk the 9 miles home from the tennis courts while following in the car to make sure that I was safe. It took a few hours, when we got home I could see how disappointed he was with me, and he just told me that I had no right to laugh at anyone else or to call them names, ever. I still feel ashamed of it to this day, but it was a good lesson, as it has never been forgotten.

I wish people who lived in areas where the misuse of these terms was uncommon and unacceptable would stop trying to tell those of us who lived in areas where it was common and acceptable that we didn't!

I told my husband earlier that people on the forum were saying that when they grew up the M S and C words were never misused and his jaw dropped almost of his face. Even his adult football trainers used the S and C words to the boys they were training in the early 70's.

ETA it wasn't universal but clearly from other people's posts above it was common. But we are talking 50 years ago. Things have changed since, thankfully.
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[onemoretime]

Reported the post. It's Dun Roamin AGAIN. Don't feed the troll ?

Which one is Dun roamin, the original poster or who?

 

[TPO]

Which one is Dun roamin, the original poster or who?

Dun roamin is minko, ickle pickle and baron samreon (my spelling is wrong). They probably have other user names as theres multiple old users in here under other guises

OP not a troll ?

 

[onemoretime]

Re Tim Stockdale, he was my childhood hero, I loved the way he rode and I watched his videos on repeat. I was lucky enough to meet him and I found him to be a lovely, down to earth guy.

Yes Tim Stockdale was a lovely man and a very good horseman.

 

[onemoretime]

Dun roamin is minko, ickle pickle and baron samreon (my spelling is wrong). They probably have other user names as theres multiple old users in here under other guises

OP not a troll ?

Ah thanks for that. My goodness Dunroamin must have a good memory to keep up all those accounts, I have a job with just one.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

I’ve honestly never heard of flid, i had to google to understand that one.

Flid was commonly used in my teens and still is somewhat I genuinely had no idea until I just looked it up this very day what the etymology was.

 

[spotty_pony]

Blimey! How rude of her! ?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Under no circumstances is it currently acceptable but 60 years ago it was normal for kids especially boys playing football to call each others these names now it is cruder and just as offensive f*****g T**ts or other such insults. I guess things move on but stay the same. I was brought up in a very sheltered and proper environment but still heard the insults hurled at those who appeared not to understand being called all the disabled names as an insult and yes my disabled downs cousin was referred to as a M***** no one had ever heard of Downs in those days
I will also add that I was never allowed to insult people in any way and would have been belted round the ear if I had another thing that has changed

The whole point being that in those days the correct term for the condition was M***** but it was only an insult if applied to those who did not have the condition.
The reason for the term was that the physical characteristics are reminiscent of the 'Mongol Hordes' who lived in a particular part of Asia and were led by Ghengis Khan.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Those words weren’t used in full when I was a kid in the 80s but shortened versions certainly were and usually to refer to somebody (usually a friend) saying/doind something particularly stupid (in terms of the Downs Syndrome related word) or physically inept (with the cerebral palsy related word). I don’t think we ever realised what they actually were short for (I certainly didn’t) and we would never have used the words in full. As soon as I did work it out (I’d have been in my early teens) I never used them again.

I understand that someone might but uneducated in these matters (my FiL law genuinely though “ethnics” was the correct term until OH told him) but once it’s pointed out to you it is entirely possible to change your habits if you care enough about it.

One of the things that annoys me the most is when somebody says “he/she is Downs Syndrome”. They are not the condition and the condition is not them. “He/she has Downs Syndrome” is no more difficult to say and so much more representative of the person.

I had to correct a Headteacher when I was working as SENCo in her school, she honestly thought it was acceptable an wrote it in her minutes of meetings, you do have to wonder! I'm not sure she ever forgave me, tbh.
But then she never forgave me for being the person who was brought flowers by a parent when I realised what was probably causing her daughter's problems and referred her to the correct proessional to get a diagnosis and treatment. H/T was somewhat mifffed! Silly woman


ETA, this was 20 yrs ago.

 

[Boulty]

Firstly really saddened that someone of that standing thinks it's ok to treat paying clients like that (regardless of language as implying someone is going to make a mess of something before they do it is not nice. Have been on the receiving end of that both in the horsey world & outside it)

Oh & just to say that some (usually shortened) form of just about every offensive term listed (plus a few more... For some reason calling everything "gaaaay" was the in thing) were in regular daily use (esp by the boys) when I was at school in the 90s & 00s (well maybe more at secondary school as we weren't even allowed to say bloody at the rather strict Christian primary school!) I don't think any of us knew the origin / actual meaning of most of them but I think we were aware they were offensive as generally that was the point of using them. I wouldn't say my school was particularly bad / in a bad area either. (Although if anyone has seen Ladhood on BBC3 a lot of that rings true & is sort of based on the high school I went to although I don't think any of it was filmed there) I don't intentionally use such words now in day to day life although will admit to calling the horse/cat a cretin on occasion when they have done something especially suicidal without really thinking what it meant

 

[Sossigpoker]

I misheard the offensive work for a corner shop as a child and thought it was a baccy (Ie selling tobacco) shop. I innocently used that word into my twenties. No one EVER called me out on it and when I did eventually learn what I’d been saying I was mortified. And angry that my apparent casual racism was tolerated. There are various words we used as insults as a child. Some now seem offensive and some still seem ok but I’m not sure if my offensive vs ok list is the same as other people’s. Language is tricky. It changes rapidly and is further confused when marginalised groups reclaim a word but the general public still need to recognise it as offensive. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt and focus more on the intent behind the word not the word itself.

English isn't my first language so when i started getting involved with horses about 20 years ago in this country, lots of terms were alien to me.
Like , i thought that a good doer is a horse that tries really hard! ?
I had an instructor who used to say that a horse was having "a sp@zzy" when a horse was freaking out or having a silly moment. And I took it to be another horsey term , like good doer. I actually used it for years without anyone ever correcting me! Perhaps because they were trying to decide between picking someone up over unacceptable language and picking on a foreigner and their English. ?
When someone finally pointed it out , I was mortified. It still makes me cringe, nearly 20 years later! But I'm of course grateful that someone did clarify what it mean to me or goodness know what trouble I could have caused!

So maybe someone should point this out to LG so that she hopefully learns from it? And learns that it's not accepted any more even if in her mind it's OK.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Oh and also , if ant instructor, no matter how famous ,made a derogatory comment about my ability in a lesson/clinic , I would kick off.
Those riders had all paid good money to be there and if one of them was struggling, they didn't deserve to be insulted and offended like that.
The instructor's job is to teach and guide - putting someone down is neither.

 

[DrSeuss]

I would expect that to be the case in most places now, 50-60 years after the time I was describing. Things have changed.

Things haven't changed, not really. The word sp*stic was dropped not just because of developments in medical knowledge (e.g. the fact that there are different subtypes of cerebral palsy) but because the word became such a common insult that there was no way to use it without it sounding horrible. Just the other day I heard a colleague criticising another colleague and describing him as "a bit special". Special needs was intended as a polite term, but people use it to insult others because they see disability as a shameful insulting thing. This for me is the problem. I wouldn't be bothered if a 70 year old woman described me as sp*stic, because I know she might mean it as just a neutral statement of fact. I would mind if someone used it as an insult and prefaced their statement with, "No offence", because that tells me they know exactly what they're doing.

This is not just about words. It's about how disabled people are seen and treated. Despite how we're often viewed, disability =/= being bad at things. There are people with cerebral palsy who are excellent riders, so criticising a rider by saying they look like they have CP makes about as much sense as saying they ride as if they've got red hair, or blue eyes. In cases where someone's disability does affect their skill, that's still not grounds for insult. So I walk like I'm an ambassador for the Ministry of Silly Walks. Why exactly is that a thing to mock me for? It's not hurting anybody. This is me just going about my day. It's not that I need pity over my mobility, I just need people to respect that humans are different and there isn't really any one 'normal' way to do things. If people truly got that, they wouldn't ever be using disability as a term of insult, because the insult would just be meaningless.[/QUOTE]