Thinking about buying a PRE

[Flowerofthefen]

A lady I know bought one 4 years ago. It had competed up to a good level. Lady is an experienced rider and hasn't managed to increase her scores in 4 years. They are very marmite with judges. One came off the box next to me at a dressage comp a few weeks ago. It warmed up with me and it's action was like a sewing machine, it was awful. As a few have said, if your looking to climb the ranks in dressage maybe look at other breeds.

 

[Cortez]

A lady I know bought one 4 years ago. It had competed up to a good level. Lady is an experienced rider and hasn't managed to increase her scores in 4 years. They are very marmite with judges. One came off the box next to me at a dressage comp a few weeks ago. It warmed up with me and it's action was like a sewing machine, it was awful. As a few have said, if your looking to climb the ranks in dressage maybe look at other breeds.

Awful to you perhaps; different certainly. I completely agree that if you desire dressage stardom a purpose bred WB is a better choice, but you couldn't pay me to ride one these days (in the past I was paid quite a lot to ride WB's. Now I won't ride anything other than an Iberian).

 

[Burnerbee]

Matt Harnacke (on YouTube) as mentioned above also sheds light on how many yards have poor welfare standards and the importance of visiting them / having a good agent

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Awful to you perhaps; different certainly. I completely agree that if you desire dressage stardom a purpose bred WB is a better choice, but you couldn't pay me to ride one these days (in the past I was paid quite a lot to ride WB's. Now I won't ride anything other than an Iberian).

Looking at it from the dressage point of view. I love to see lovely forward flowing paces for dressage. I'm sure they are lovely horses but perhaps more suited to other disciplines. But again it depends how far you want to go in your chosen field.

 

[milliepops]

you can still go far, if you aren't tremendously bothered about winning everything. People should ride the horse they enjoy, given the choice, i feel this about my welshie who learned all the GP work in a fairly correct way, we were never going to go to the nationals but just because they are *different* does not mean they can't do the sport. I suppose it depends on how an individual measures success, for me it's much more about ascending a training ladder rather than trying to beat CDJ

I now ride a KWPN with dressage royalty breeding but the welsh was much more of a fun horse.

 

[shortstuff99]

Looking at it from the dressage point of view. I love to see lovely forward flowing paces for dressage. I'm sure they are lovely horses but perhaps more suited to other disciplines. But again it depends how far you want to go in your chosen field.

Bit unfortunate when Iberians and baroque horses were the original dressage horses to now be told it is not for them ?.

I could get into a whole debate how the judging of moves has been altered to suit warmbloods...

If you are watching the world dressage champs take a look at Quincalo de Indalo's test who has certainly beaten a lot of warmbloods.

 

[Palindrome]

Looking at it from the dressage point of view. I love to see lovely forward flowing paces for dressage. I'm sure they are lovely horses but perhaps more suited to other disciplines. But again it depends how far you want to go in your chosen field.

Yes, their trot often look a bit like a sewing machine, particularly the front legs, but it's lovely to ride. They have excellent rythm and come naturally into an outline and on the bit. They are fantastic dressage horses, but more for collection than extension.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I know many (including my own) that don't trot like a sewing machine. He did have a tendency toward being a sewing machine as a young nervous horse, but we've greatly improved his trot over the years. His way of going is still Iberian-like but different from when we started. Some have way more knee action than others. There's variation within the breed.

I've had a heck of a time training trot extensions with him, because "bigger not faster or bigger but not necessarily knees higher" can be a harder concept for this type to grasp. However, I've seen many with great extensions.

What I've mostly grown to love about mine is that you can go out and compete at Advanced Medium, dabble in the 80cm jumpers, fly around (well, he's not all that fast) a 80-90cm cross country course, go for a hack, do liberty work, do a trail course, or do absolutely nothing and it's all fun because while he's a bit of a weirdo, he's such a lovely person. He 100% requires the right rider and has little tolerance for anything less.

 

[littleshetland]

I have so many kind offers from people to ride their lovely horses -all sorts, but it's my PRE that really makes me smile. I wish I'd 'discovered' them years ago.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Bit unfortunate when Iberians and baroque horses were the original dressage horses to now be told it is not for them ?.

I could get into a whole debate how the judging of moves has been altered to suit warmbloods...

If you are watching the world dressage champs take a look at Quincalo de Indalo's test who has certainly beaten a lot of warmbloods.

I'm not saying they are not for dressage at all. Most horses, schooled correctly, can do a decent test. I'm just saying I don't enjoy watching them. I agree about the judges. Certainly the PRE round here get scored very low even in unaff dressage.

 

[Cortez]

I'm not saying they are not for dressage at all. Most horses, schooled correctly, can do a decent test. I'm just saying I don't enjoy watching them. I agree about the judges. Certainly the PRE round here get scored very low even in unaff dressage.

You need to go somewhere where they're being ridden properly, (hint: not the UK).

 

[Flowerofthefen]

You need to go somewhere where they're being ridden properly, (hint: not the UK).

I've seen videos etc of them being ridden in a different setting to dressage and yes, they are stunning.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I will say that working equitation is more appealing to me and my horse in comparison to dressage. There are some overlaps between the two, but WE feels more purposeful with obstacles and whatnot. Plus, no extended trot ?

 

[planete]

Some breeders of PREs are trying to breed for more extravagant warmblood like movement and size, but it is not a move popular with most breeders.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Some breeders of PREs are trying to breed for more extravagant warmblood like movement and size, but it is not a move popular with most breeders.

I have seen some very tall PRE's and Lusitanos lately. I have no desire or interest in this. Some are 1.70m or more! Mine is 1.60m and I don't want or need anything taller. I always thought that the PRE should be a sturdy medium type.

If you want the warmblood movement then buy/ride a warmblood. If you want the warmblood movement with the PRE brain, I suppose that could be interesting for some. We definitely suffer a bit with competitive dressage because my horses movement is quite plain in comparison to the big warmbloods we are surrounded by. We're often the only PRE or only non warmblood, and some judges have been vocal about Baroque horses having no place in dressage here, so it's an uphill battle. I've mostly competed for his education, and just to see and adapt to different settings. So when we get a placement, it's just icing on the cake. He's actually very nice to compete, in that all of our at home training has payed off and he's a very civilized citizen. I can have a nice day out with him, so I try not to focus on that.

 

[littleshetland]

I don’t really compete anymore ( at dressage) I’m just enjoying schooling mine. I occasionally get persuaded to go to a comp, but the big WBs are definitely favoured by judges, but that’s fine with me…. I’m just about enjoying my lovely boy.

 

[Caol Ila]

Hermosa doesn't have choppy, sewing machine movement at all. She's not as extravagant as warmbloods, but she is fluid and forward. This isn't the best video because I wanted her to keep the trot small, so she wasn't unbalanced on the small circle, but you kind of get the idea.

 

[j1ffy]

I do think the warmblood v non-warmblood debate is increasingly a red herring when talking about dressage and Iberians. Yes, they're different to warmbloods and yes, the FEI rules are based on German cavalry horses and yes, warmbloods have been bred for competitive dressage for decades.

However it's interesting that we're having this discussion (yet again) while a World Champs is ongoing that sees more Iberian representation than at any time since I took an interest, though admittedly I only started paying attention when Fuego was on the scene which coincided with me buying my first PRE!

In the current world champs, there were 11 Iberians in total in the team comp or 11.8% of all entries - 7 Lusitanos, 3 PREs and 1 Portuguese cross - three of which (two PREs and one Luso) have made it to the GPS. I've not watched the Lusos but the three PREs are all very type-y, they don't look like some of the leggy 'warmbloods with a big neck' that you occasionally see advertised on PRE pages. Also I'm happy to be corrected but I believe Luso and PRE are the only 'closed' studbooks represented at the Champs.

As others have said on the post, it's about finding the right PRE but above all it's about training. My youngster can go like a 12.2hh on acid (my trainer's words) if he's tense but has lovely length of stride if he's working properly - there's a video on the 5/6yo thread in Competing & Training if anyone's interested. You get a lot of complaints on the GBPRE page on FB about biased judges who 'don't understand PRE movement' but when you see videos of those same horses, they are tense and not using their bodies at all but just going round with knees up and nose tucked in.

OP - I hope you find a wonderful horse and enjoy your PRE dressage journey!

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I do think the warmblood v non-warmblood debate is increasingly a red herring when talking about dressage and Iberians. Yes, they're different to warmbloods and yes, the FEI rules are based on German cavalry horses and yes, warmbloods have been bred for competitive dressage for decades.

However it's interesting that we're having this discussion (yet again) while a World Champs is ongoing that sees more Iberian representation than at any time since I took an interest, though admittedly I only started paying attention when Fuego was on the scene which coincided with me buying my first PRE!

In the current world champs, there were 11 Iberians in total in the team comp or 11.8% of all entries - 7 Lusitanos, 3 PREs and 1 Portuguese cross - three of which (two PREs and one Luso) have made it to the GPS. I've not watched the Lusos but the three PREs are all very type-y, they don't look like some of the leggy 'warmbloods with a big neck' that you occasionally see advertised on PRE pages. Also I'm happy to be corrected but I believe Luso and PRE are the only 'closed' studbooks represented at the Champs.

As others have said on the post, it's about finding the right PRE but above all it's about training. My youngster can go like a 12.2hh on acid (my trainer's words) if he's tense but has lovely length of stride if he's working properly - there's a video on the 5/6yo thread in Competing & Training if anyone's interested. You get a lot of complaints on the GBPRE page on FB about biased judges who 'don't understand PRE movement' but when you see videos of those same horses, they are tense and not using their bodies at all but just going round with knees up and nose tucked in.

OP - I hope you find a wonderful horse and enjoy your PRE dressage journey!

There still are some biases out there, it may depend on your neck of the woods.

It's not that my horse is tense and not using his body well, but when you're in a class od 19 Warmbloods, you stand out and some judges have their preferences. Not all. This is what I've personally experienced and heard first hand, please don't discount my experience or everyone else's. Mostly it's from older judges so maybe they're a bit "set" I'm not sure. We've done quite well at competitions so it's not like it's that bad, but it's not like it isn't totally a thing either.

I actually agree with many of your points re training and what's going on re the Internarional scene and at the World Champs.

Edited to add: my earlier statement about buying the movment applies to Warmbloods and other breeds too. Even some "big names" have said that they buy the movement. It can definitely make life a little bit easier when your horse naturally moves with some form of suspension/isn't so economical ? not that training can't improve things.

 

[milliepops]

There still are some biases out there, it may depend on your neck of the woods.

It's not that my horse is tense and not using his body well, but when you're in a class od 19 Warmbloods, you stand out and some judges have their preferences. Not all. This is what I've personally experienced and heard first hand, please don't discount my experience or everyone else's. Mostly it's from older judges so maybe they're a bit "set" I'm not sure. We've done quite well at competitions so it's not like it's that bad, but it's not like it isn't totally a thing either.

I actually agree with many of your points re training and what's going on re the Internarional scene and at the World Champs.

Edited to add: my earlier statement about buying the movment applies to Warmbloods and other breeds too. Even some "big names" have said that they buy the movement. It can definitely make life a little bit easier when your horse naturally moves with some form of suspension/isn't so economical ? not that training can't improve things.

I don't think jiffy was trying to silence your opinion, but in the UK particularly we have had an explosion of different types, almost directly encouraged by BD with the various specific "non WB" championships available. So assuming OP is not aiming for world domination, the baroque type horses have opportunities not open to WBs and also judges are accustomed to seeing them regularly. given the reference to GBPRE i was assuming jiffy was talking about british dressage riders complaining rather than elsewhere.

 

[j1ffy]

There still are some biases out there, it may depend on your neck of the woods.

It's not that my horse is tense and not using his body well, but when you're in a class od 19 Warmbloods, you stand out and some judges have their preferences. Not all. This is what I've personally experienced and heard first hand, please don't discount my experience or everyone else's. Mostly it's from older judges so maybe they're a bit "set" I'm not sure. We've done quite well at competitions so it's not like it's that bad, but it's not like it isn't totally a thing either.

I actually agree with many of your points re training and what's going on re the Internarional scene and at the World Champs.

Edited to add: my earlier statement about buying the movment applies to Warmbloods and other breeds too. Even some "big names" have said that they buy the movement. It can definitely make life a little bit easier when your horse naturally moves with some form of suspension/isn't so economical ? not that training can't improve things.

CC - I think you've misread my post as I was in no way discounting your experience. I explicitly said "complaints on the GBPRE page on FB" in reference to biased judging v poor training. I'm very aware of the challenges you've faced and the correct way that you've trained your own PRE (and thank you MP for also clarifying!).

 

[milliepops]

i experienced it myself in BD, the PRE i rode was not particularly of the baroque type but did a bit of hair flinging spanish walk short neck stuff when tense (wonder why i felt at home on the welshie after that, haha, all quite familiar especially the hair flinging) so we would get hammered then, on the days when he could show the work we got in training then he got some good scores and pleasing remarks.

 

[palo1]

I have nothing constructive to add to this (sorry) but I just wanted to say that for expression, fun and a bit of hair flinging as well as just about any other scenario a PRE is divine. I wish I could have one but I can't so I have the home grown version (Welsh D) which also does very well on expression, fun, hair flinging and other dreamy activities. The most important things to remember are to aim for the sort of horse that you want to enjoy (whatever the discipline) and then choose the horse you feel you can really develop a partnership with. Or just the fanciest looking one lol!! Good luck shopping

 

[DabDab]

I do think the warmblood v non-warmblood debate is increasingly a red herring when talking about dressage and Iberians. Yes, they're different to warmbloods and yes, the FEI rules are based on German cavalry horses and yes, warmbloods have been bred for competitive dressage for decades.

However it's interesting that we're having this discussion (yet again) while a World Champs is ongoing that sees more Iberian representation than at any time since I took an interest, though admittedly I only started paying attention when Fuego was on the scene which coincided with me buying my first PRE!

In the current world champs, there were 11 Iberians in total in the team comp or 11.8% of all entries - 7 Lusitanos, 3 PREs and 1 Portuguese cross - three of which (two PREs and one Luso) have made it to the GPS. I've not watched the Lusos but the three PREs are all very type-y, they don't look like some of the leggy 'warmbloods with a big neck' that you occasionally see advertised on PRE pages. Also I'm happy to be corrected but I believe Luso and PRE are the only 'closed' studbooks represented at the Champs.

As others have said on the post, it's about finding the right PRE but above all it's about training. My youngster can go like a 12.2hh on acid (my trainer's words) if he's tense but has lovely length of stride if he's working properly - there's a video on the 5/6yo thread in Competing & Training if anyone's interested. You get a lot of complaints on the GBPRE page on FB about biased judges who 'don't understand PRE movement' but when you see videos of those same horses, they are tense and not using their bodies at all but just going round with knees up and nose tucked in.

OP - I hope you find a wonderful horse and enjoy your PRE dressage journey!

Absolutely. Unfortunately their tendency when confused/anxious/unbalanced to tuck their noses in, tense through their toplines and move their legs real quick is what a lot of people think Iberian movement is. But there are some beautifully ridden and trained PREs out there at all levels of both WE and Dressage.

 

[shortstuff99]

Did everyone watch the absolutely stunning Quincallo de Indalo in the GP Special today? Finished in the top 15 best horses in the world and will be in the freestyle on Weds ?

 

[Connie7373]

Thank you so so much everyone for your replies, definitely lots of good information from you all. It's great to hear that @visa_bot and @littleshetland you have had good experiences and your horse's have settled well. I think I was worried that importing could be really difficult. Has anyone heard of or used Andalusian horses direct? I have been in contact with Dawn from there about a lovely horse and she has been super helpful but wanted to know if anyone has used/knows anything about her?

I have yes.

Pm me if you want.

 

[Emma_1994]

Did everyone watch the absolutely stunning Quincallo de Indalo in the GP Special today? Finished in the top 15 best horses in the world and will be in the freestyle on Weds ?

Wasn't he just amazing! I loved watching every minute of his performance!

 

[Emma_1994]

Absolutely. Unfortunately their tendency when confused/anxious/unbalanced to tuck their noses in, tense through their toplines and move their legs real quick is what a lot of people think Iberian movement is. But there are some beautifully ridden and trained PREs out there at all levels of both WE and Dressage.

I have noticed when looking at videos of horses that some are ridden very tightly and in sitting trot when they are so young. Also doing lateral work and even piaffe before they can really hold themselves properly.

 

[Emma_1994]

Still on my journey to finding a lovely PRE! I saw one who I was about to get vetted but unfortunately his original x-rays showed that he has OCD in both hocks. So disappointing.

Also I was sent a horse by an agent in Spain of a 5yo, 164cm stallion. Just looking through Facebook and I saw the exact same horse advertised as a 3yo, 168cm and with a different name! I can't understand why? I am definitely going to be a bit more careful now. Anybody else had the same experience at all?

 

[Cortez]

Still on my journey to finding a lovely PRE! I saw one who I was about to get vetted but unfortunately his original x-rays showed that he has OCD in both hocks. So disappointing.

Also I was sent a horse by an agent in Spain of a 5yo, 164cm stallion. Just looking through Facebook and I saw the exact same horse advertised as a 3yo, 168cm and with a different name! I can't understand why? I am definitely going to be a bit more careful now. Anybody else had the same experience at all?

Well, since all registered horses in Spain are microchipped it would be very easy to see if it is indeed the same horse, and verify the age.
Oh, and many horses do piaffe in the pillars before they are ridden, it strengthens the back and gets horses light in front. Have you ever ridden a (properly trained) Spanish horse?