this is just about the most arrogant piece I have read in a long time.

[Goldenstar]

Ps that sent last post of mine made no sense
I was trying to say that CF may well have gone home less than happy the performance .
It’s the judging I want to understand better hence wanting to see the horse that was second

 

[shortstuff99]

Ps that sent last post of mine made no sense
I was trying to say that CF may well have gone home less than happy the performance .
It’s the judging I want to understand better hence wanting to see the horse that was second

I posted the second place video on the thread, it was Isabell Werth.

 

[Goldenstar]

Oh I missed it I will have a look

 

[Sossigpoker]

I just read the post and some of the comments. Sickening.
Amber Trainer very eloquently said :
"No disrespect, but you dont have to be able to do something to understand when something is wrong. If you have the intelligence and intellect to understand the sport (no matter what it may be, horses or otherwise) and on this case, the undeniable mechanics if how a horses body works and what has been proven to be damaging to them, then you still can call out an issue when its seen. It can still be done with some tact, but unless people start making some moise about things that ultimately are not good foe the horse, things will never change. I'm not saying harass them, or bulmy them. You just dont have to be able to do something to understand how it works. Those people you claim cant jump a crosspole, maybe they dont have a horse who can jump, the ones who can't get 60% in prelim, maybe they cant even afford a horse at all. That doesnt mean that some of them (certainly not all) don't know what they are talkig about. If nobody is allowed to say anything then how exactly do we expect things to change? Should we just be ok with those who train in rolkur? Must be ok because they compete at the Olympics and therefore know better? Ultimately we all care about the horses, they are always the no1 priority in everyones thoughts."

And of course was called a bully and troll by that woman and her sycophantic followers
I couldn't agree with Amber more.

 

[Hannahkayj]

I was pretty gobsmacked to see someone say the horse doesn’t come first. I certainly do not compete at GP don’t fancy it myself, stress levels would kill me off and my brains about as good as the dodo at remembering tests. But I do know biomechanics of a horse and know that us mere mortals can tell what’s right and wrong.


Fact she openly said she rode her horse BTV so she could “control” him at a medium trot is god dam awful, I’m not one for being pink and fluffy but I do think we need to watch. We need to be seen to not be rewarding BTV, rollkur etc etc. if we want horse sport to continue going.

She’s peeing me off shame some of her posts are spot on, but this one? Yeah bad taste in the mouth

 

[Apercrumbie]

I have met Valegro out hacking when I was out on my (clipped not hairy!) cob - he does indeed hack on a loose rein.

Oh I think I'd have fallen off from being so starstruck, it would be very embarrassing

This vet is just so shouty, I find reading her rants to be very stressful (and just plain wrong). One to avoid for me!

 

[Barklands]

Okay *takes deep breath*, I may be about to put the cat amongst the pigeons here (although I do agree the post this thread refers to does come across as rather arrogant and very belittling) but a real gripe I have with SM at the moment is the constant trolling and negative comments about 1) a horse dropping BTV and 2) "rollkur". I feel that often a lot of these comments are likely posted by very novice riders just starting out who learn the terminology from more experienced sources online but apply it to practically every video bar when a horse is daydreaming with its head in the air (IMO being hollow is just as bad, if not worse for muscle development than a horse dropping behind the vertical every now and then). For a non horsey outsider looking in, this must make the entire sport seem abusive, cruel and calls the social license into question due to the overwhelming amout of these comments.

I don't profess to be a GP rider by any stretch but I think these comments make other riders feel that they must have a horse in a competition frame all the time which is not sustainable, as we all know horses are not machines and as they're schooling they may be a little weak and drop BTV but, I certainly don't think this is abusive as it is often tarnished to be and is more a case of evasion of the contact on the part of the horse. I do often wonder if some of those commenting this type of criticism would rather people rode with zero contact and just allow the horse to work incorrectly. I personally believe this increases the chances of injury however, again a vet I am not.

I wholeheartedly agree that you don't need to be riding at the top levels of the support to critically analyse riders and I expect the majority of folk on here will have a keen eye however, I do think there an awful lot of novices hiding behind keyboards who have yet to master the rising trot, and whom IMHO just don't have the levels of understanding to make many of those sorts comments to both other novice riders and the pros alike. It is a shame that young riders who were once inspired by the top riders (and how lucky are we in GB to have so many of the greats) now prefer to pick fault with everything they see including those who are such a great asset to our sport.

As for the "rollkur" comments that are plastered over far too many videos, this one really grinds my gears for the reasons above particularly as 99% of the time it is clearly not actual rollkur (a method which makes me shudder at the thought). As far as the very heavy criticism over SM regarding Everdale is concerned I think this is a really interesting debate. Ever since he started making waves, I have somewhat disliked his head carriage which as many of you will have also noticed, is very similar in his son, Imhotep which makes it clear in my mind that this is a conformation issue and not a training issue, let alone "abusive" riding (we can just look at the difference in the head carriage of Kjento, Glamourdale and Valegro for that). Which begs the question, should head carriage be penalised more than other elements of the training scale aside from contact such as impulsion, collection, rhythm which those two horses have in spades? I simply do not know, which of course, is why I am not a pro nor a judge

Anyway, I'll get off my soap box now...

 

[ThreeFurs]

Okay I'm now emboldened to *take deep breath* as well, and more, I'm planning to write on the question of keyboard warriors in dressage for a national horse magazine. This thread is interesting - [the arrogant vet] which I'd already seen on Australian Facebook sites in response to the post 28 Jan by South Australian pro GP rider Heather Currie on having had a video shared and then trolled of her recently riding a GP test on her gelding 'Istan', who two years ago as a stallion attacked her so badly she could've died. In her video she talks about her rehab, and how hard it was to get back on him and get back to GP.

I know Heather, not well, but I've seen her ride in real life many times over the last twelve years. I ride dressage as well at a much lower level, so have pencilled for judges on her tests, seen her at clinics etc. I think her teary address direct to camera, telling her story, does raise a lot of issues about trolling, and rider mental health, issues with many shades of grey and no easy answers. She's one of the few riders who've 'spoken back' to the trolls to say how it feels. So its kind of interesting for lots of reasons. - I think Charlotte Dujardin has spoken about this as well? [post Olympics 2012 and post the Freestyle 'blood on the flanks' issue]

Here it is anyway.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=915792693147196

Its interesting to note that KWs are now blaming her 'poor horsemanship' for the stallion attacking her. - [I understand there were mares in heat nearby, she was leading him, he got frenzied - never done this before or since].

 

[Kaylum]

The more posts like that people put on the more hits on their page they get. They love it and I am afraid that fb actually encourages the creator.

Yep I also knew who it was straightway.

These people are actually belittling others rather than the other way round.

 

[cauda equina]

It's a well-known tactic - deflect any criticism by crying "But I'm the victim here!"

And for an actual equine vet, someone whose job is to improve the health and wellbeing of horses, to shout down people who express their concern for horses' welfare is pretty messed up

 

[SEL]

Okay *takes deep breath*, I may be about to put the cat amongst the pigeons here (although I do agree the post this thread refers to does come across as rather arrogant and very belittling) but a real gripe I have with SM at the moment is the constant trolling and negative comments about 1) a horse dropping BTV and 2) "rollkur". I feel that often a lot of these comments are likely posted by very novice riders just starting out who learn the terminology from more experienced sources online but apply it to practically every video bar when a horse is daydreaming with its head in the air (IMO being hollow is just as bad, if not worse for muscle development than a horse dropping behind the vertical every now and then). For a non horsey outsider looking in, this must make the entire sport seem abusive, cruel and calls the social license into question due to the overwhelming amout of these comments.

I don't profess to be a GP rider by any stretch but I think these comments make other riders feel that they must have a horse in a competition frame all the time which is not sustainable, as we all know horses are not machines and as they're schooling they may be a little weak and drop BTV but, I certainly don't think this is abusive as it is often tarnished to be and is more a case of evasion of the contact on the part of the horse. I do often wonder if some of those commenting this type of criticism would rather people rode with zero contact and just allow the horse to work incorrectly. I personally believe this increases the chances of injury however, again a vet I am not.

I wholeheartedly agree that you don't need to be riding at the top levels of the support to critically analyse riders and I expect the majority of folk on here will have a keen eye however, I do think there an awful lot of novices hiding behind keyboards who have yet to master the rising trot, and whom IMHO just don't have the levels of understanding to make many of those sorts comments to both other novice riders and the pros alike. It is a shame that young riders who were once inspired by the top riders (and how lucky are we in GB to have so many of the greats) now prefer to pick fault with everything they see including those who are such a great asset to our sport.

As for the "rollkur" comments that are plastered over far too many videos, this one really grinds my gears for the reasons above particularly as 99% of the time it is clearly not actual rollkur (a method which makes me shudder at the thought). As far as the very heavy criticism over SM regarding Everdale is concerned I think this is a really interesting debate. Ever since he started making waves, I have somewhat disliked his head carriage which as many of you will have also noticed, is very similar in his son, Imhotep which makes it clear in my mind that this is a conformation issue and not a training issue, let alone "abusive" riding (we can just look at the difference in the head carriage of Kjento, Glamourdale and Valegro for that). Which begs the question, should head carriage be penalised more than other elements of the training scale aside from contact such as impulsion, collection, rhythm which those two horses have in spades? I simply do not know, which of course, is why I am not a pro nor a judge

Anyway, I'll get off my soap box now...

I only have this forum and FB as my social media sources (probably makes me a dinosaur!) but comments I've seen on the Everdale test really haven't been from novice riders. One who commented on the angry vet posts trains at GP (no idea if her comment is still there). I think it's a very easy excuse to say that everyone criticising is a novice who doesn't know what they're talking about.

I spent a fair few years bumbling around with a horse who naturally came behind the vertical and it was hard work to get him forward and down (I can still hear that being bellowed at me by my instructor). I was marked down for it though and I expected to be - and I think that's more the issue. If CF had left that test with the marks representing the tension this thread wouldn't be here.

Social media does give bullies an easy route because they can do it safely from behind a keyboard but I think we also can't use that as an excuse to ignore poor horsemanship - in whatever form. We need to get our sport in order or it won't be around and unfortunately SM pressure does tend to influence the relevant authorities.

 

[sbloom]

I'm sorry, too many excuses. So many commenters are knowledgeable,.and very few are making ad hominem attacks and hardly anyone is accused of deliberate abuse/cruelty in the way she thinks. They single out winners of classes where the score did not seem deserved. They select frame after frame of horses diving on their forehand (hers would not be so strong in medium trot if he was pushing up in front) and say they're moments in time, however these too riders just can't SEE that it's about systemic incorrect training. They don't understand why people are so critical but the penny is dropping in a few places.

Note she has restricted who can comment on the post even before she starts deleting unfavourable responses.

 

[Barklands]

I think it depends what SM you are looking at - my eldest has tiktok and the comments that flood practically every rider's video along with even the FEI are quite clearly very novice but the sheer volume is damaging. Instagram is also pretty bad for it in my opinion.

 

[little_critter]

Maybe I’m just not seeing the trolling, but I’ve been pleasantly surprised that the debate I’ve seen on here recently has been reasoned and polite. The comments I read on the vets FB post all sounded polite and were questioning the methods / judging, not hurling personal abuse.

 

[sbloom]

I'm only on FB to be fair where the only ad hominem attacks are by people like Natalie.

 

[SEL]

I think it depends what SM you are looking at - my eldest has tiktok and the comments that flood practically every rider's video along with even the FEI are quite clearly very novice but the sheer volume is damaging. Instagram is also pretty bad for it in my opinion.

Can you turn off comments on those? I wonder sometimes why riders don't do that. If you're expecting undying adulation then I can see why you'd leave comments on but if it's troll central turn them off!

 

[Ambers Echo]

The trolling is real but is a different problem. The answer is to address online abuse in all its forms, not to silence legitimate debate or discussion.

 

[cauda equina]

Another answer is to address horse abuse, but of course one man's abuse is another man's strong riding

 

[ycbm]

I think it depends what SM you are looking at - my eldest has tiktok and the comments that flood practically every rider's video along with even the FEI are quite clearly very novice but the sheer volume is damaging. Instagram is also pretty bad for it in my opinion.

What most discussions on poor mental health caused by reading what's on social media seem to leave out is that it is optional to read it.

Personal attacks are not on, but why do people repeatedly call for free speech to be curtailed when the person who perceives themselves to be a victim of unwarranted criticism can choose not to see it?
.

 

[meleeka]

I see she’s now complaining that she’s been trolled more than the professional rider she was sticking up for. Really?! There’s 300 comments on that post. I wonder how many she deleted?

Thank goodness she’s also deleted the post where she attacked someone’s opinion on a friends profile.

 

[humblepie]

It’s strange but often people who share be kind posts need to look at their own behaviour first. Not referencing the person here as not read her pages.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

The number of comments on said post that say it's just because people are jealous

Stop putting professionals on a pedestal!

 

[Rowreach]

The number of comments on said post that say it's just because people are jealous

Stop putting professionals on a pedestal!

I've been accused of being jealous on here, when I have happened to disagree with someone. It's a lazy accusation arising from a lack of the intelligence needed to have a reasoned discussion about something.

Targeted online attacks against an individual are unacceptable and a world away from a clutch of people recognising that there is a huge problem within a sport, and highlighting it in the hope that the situation will improve.

If anyone from H&H is reading this, it's the adulation between the covers of that magazine of those people who ride obese show horses, win high level dressage competitions on tense, unhappy, "forced" looking horses, finish xc rounds on horses that are dropping with exhaustion, have falls on racehorses that are too tired to gallop and jump in poor conditions etc etc, which is resulting in the outcry from people who, yes, may not be total experts in horsemanship but they have eyes - and that's where the face of horse sport lies and why unless we put our own house in order we run the risk of there being no horse sport, no happy hacking, no breeding whatsoever.

I have also been accused on here of wanting to ban anything that's fun - far from it, I've been so lucky to have had decades of fun with horses, but my idea of fun with them is that they are having a reasonably nice time of it as well (despite having to accede to my choices on occasions rather than theirs).

What we actually need is people at the top of the disciplines to stand up and call for change, to acknowledge that there are issues, to bring other riders along with them. Not to silence the questioning voices. (I don't actually consider NM to be at the top of anything btw so I don't mean her).

 

[Hallo2012]

oh i am now blocked....boo hoo...very sad........!

 

[paddy555]

oh i am now blocked....boo hoo...very sad........!

what was your crime??

 

[Winters100]

What most discussions on poor mental health caused by reading what's on social media seem to leave out is that it is optional to read it.

Personal attacks are not on, but why do people repeatedly call for free speech to be curtailed when the person who perceives themselves to be a victim of unwarranted criticism can choose not to see it?
.

Spot on.

And I see that they don't mind others having an opinion, as long as it is positive. You never hear them saying 'sure I got a lot of positive comments, but none of those people compete at this level, so they don't count, and should not really be commenting at all'.

If one does not have the strength of mind to deal with criticism, whether it is warranted or not, then do not use social media.

 

[meleeka]

what was your crime??

I want to know too!

 

[sbloom]

Lee Pearson has just gone after a dissenting grand prix rider who shared the Australian rant on a group, trawling his FB page and sharing a very old photo of the rider's (of someone he used to work for and whose training approach he now completely rejects). All this leaves a very bad taste.

 

[teapot]

Tit for tat (looking at you BE!) just makes the industry as a whole look even more outdated than it actually it is.

You’d think those at the top - individuals, the veterinary profession, or affiliated bodies would be trying to do what’s right. If your average Joe cares more about social licence and welfare than the professionals, we’re on an extremely steep downhill slope to the end of the industry imho. They seem so unaware of just how precarious it all is now. Yet us lowly peasants get it.


ETS - I saw the comment disagreeing that a horse’s welfare should come first, over the mental health of riders. The person who said is a higher level coach which is a tad concerning. Social media has a lot to answer for, but perhaps the TikTok generation need to learn the art of not posting every single thing to get by in life on fake likes and ‘omg your amazin!’

 

[expanding_horizon]

Her most recent post (today) about the suffering of her elderly horse, I couldnt help thinking wouldnt the kindest thing to have been to made the call, his quality of life over last year hasnt sounded very good. Just because you can throw the kitchen sink at an old horse (if you are the vet owner) doesnt necesssarily mean you should).