Thoughts on these Hooves

[Dyllymoo]

Hi All

Any immediate thoughts on Js feet in photos below at all?

He was shod 20th July, due again 31st August.

I'm not very knowledgeable with feet.

 

[Dyllymoo]

Follow on

 

[Gloi]

Have you sole pictures?
On the front hooves the heels are starting to collapse as can be seen by the curve in the event lines towards the heel, seen best on the front foot with the black spot.

 

[Dyllymoo]

Have you sole pictures?
On the front hooves the heels are starting to collapse as can be seen by the curve in the event lines towards the heel, seen best on the front foot with the black spot.

I haven't but can get some tonight if that's ok?

That doesn't sound great I am literally a dunce when it comes to feet so just wondering what would cause that and what the effects would be?

Thank you

 

[ycbm]

Are you asking for any particular reason?
.

 

[Dyllymoo]

Are you asking for any particular reason?
.

He trips on his fronts. Its more than any other horse I have ridden (which isn't many). I'm just interested to see if it could be hoof related or is indeed due to his schooling etc.

 

[ycbm]

Can you take some pictures of the fronts from exactly side on, with the camera down almost on the floor. It's difficult to see the angles of the feet from the shots you've posted.

Your farrier is shoeing to bring the toe right back which should help with the tripping. How long has he been shoeing him for you?
.

 

[Dyllymoo]

Can you take some pictures of the fronts from exactly side on, with the camera down almost on the floor. It's difficult to see the angles of the feet from the shots you've posted.

Your farrier is shoeing to bring the toe right back which should help with the tripping. How long has he been shoeing him for you?
.

I will take some better ones tonight, sorry I wasn't sure how best to take them but that does make sense.

He has been shoeing him since I got him (bar the first shoeing), so December 2019/ January 2020.

 

[holeymoley]

The heels are contracted which is not really what you want. However he’s not overly long at the toe which is good.

 

[holeymoley]

I would actually say too that he has a bit of an imbalance especially on the off fore.

 

[ycbm]

The heels are contracted which is not really what you want. However he’s not overly long at the toe which is good.

You see, I think he is, but the farrier is doing a great job removing it and bringing the breakover back, but we need the pix from the floor to check.
.

 

[holeymoley]

You see, I think he is, but the farrier is doing a great job removing it and bringing the breakover back, but we need the pix from the floor to check.
.

Yes I agree that the toe’s possibly been too long and that’s gradually getting brought back. That would certainly answer the tripping problems and marry up with the under run heel.

 

[Red-1]

The angles of the photos are not great, but from what I can see the farrier is doing their best.

A spell without shoes in Autumn, with road walking, would improve them stacks IMO.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

I’m with Red about removing the shoes in the autumn, it will improve the heels and allow him to self balance.

 

[Dyllymoo]

Thanks all. I really rate my farrier, he is really knowledgeable and helpful, and easy to approach as well (as I said I know next to nothing and he explains things to me) but I was just concerned about the tripping, especially after a tumble last week where he landed on his knees.

I will take some better photos tonight.

With regards to taking his shoes off, will he cope with that? I have no idea how to feed for a barefoot life though either, and being a cob he can put on weight looking at thin air. I guess that's something to speak to the farrier about as well.

 

[jnb]

My cob is barefoot and always has been, he has white feet and I thought once broken in, I'd at least need fronts on but he's fine so far (I have boots now, but haven't needed to use them - yet)
You'd be surprised how they cope, no horse was born shod.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

He wasn't born with shoes so you you know that he has managed without them in the past.
Secondly, you can always put the shoes back on again at any time.

Some horses step out of shoes without any issues, some get a bit footy a few weeks after being deshod as their hooves 'wake up' and some need boots to help them transition. The occasional horse (rare IME) has hooves or metabolic issues that mean it is a real task getting them comfortable without shoes. Shoeing a horse like this can be the best way forwards.

Most horses can cope with easy surfaces with a bit of thought. Easy surfaces include grass and flat tarmac, so generally giving a horse a break from shoes and taking them out on the road for walking hacks should be achievable.

RE diet, a good barefoot diet is actually a sensible diet for all horses. So cut out molasses (molgo) and keep to high forage/low sugar feeds with added balanced vits and mins plus salt. Good vit and mins includes Pro Hoof, Equi Vita and Forage Plus.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

Low sugar and low starch feed which is good for a good doer anyway. I have two ponies, my WB with the thinnest soles ever is barefoot and booted all round to be ridden. I couldn’t in my wildest dreams remove the shoes off my Connie, he would have no feet left in 5 minutes so it doesn’t work for every horse.

 

[Dyllymoo]

He has a handful of Thunderbrooks chaff and Equimins Advance balancer, milk thistle and gut balancer. We have mostly road/ country park hacking, so hopefully he would be ok. I will have a chat with my farrier I guess. When you say Autumn, do we mean Sept/Oct?

 

[Meowy Catkin]

If he was mine, I would be tempted to have the shoes removed on the 31st Aug. I would make sure that they weren't trimmed in any way, just shoes off.

Then I would start to walk out in-hand on tarmac to see how he's doing. Is he comfortable? Are there any spots where gravel driveways have deposited gravel on top of the tarmac (I'd be back with a broom to sweep it)? Is he landing toe first, flat or heel first?

If I then thought, OK he's comfortable on the roads, I would then ride but would build up the distances slowly. This gives the hooves a chance to respond to the new wear level. They will grow more if they need to but it doesn't happen immediately. Then you get to the point where you ride the bleddy thing for hours and hours, you're trotting, cantering, going up and down massive hills and it still needs trimming! Can you tell that I never achieved the holy grail that is the 'self trimming' horse?

 

[Dyllymoo]

If he was mine, I would be tempted to have the shoes removed on the 31st Aug. I would make sure that they weren't trimmed in any way, just shoes off.

Then I would start to walk out in-hand on tarmac to see how he's doing. Is he comfortable? Are there any spots where gravel driveways have deposited gravel on top of the tarmac (I'd be back with a broom to sweep it)? Is he landing toe first, flat or heel first?

If I then thought, OK he's comfortable on the roads, I would then ride but would build up the distances slowly. This gives the hooves a chance to respond to the new wear level. They will grow more if they need to but it doesn't happen immediately. Then you get to the point where you ride the bleddy thing for hours and hours, you're trotting, cantering, going up and down massive hills and it still needs trimming! Can you tell that I never achieved the holy grail that is the 'self trimming' horse?

Ok sounds like an idea, I just worry though as I'm not very knowledgeable about feet, my farrier might ask my reasons and then I would be stumped, do you see what I mean?

Plus J isn't great at walking in hand (well he bolted home twice at the last yard walking in an open field so I guess slightly different to walking on the roads). Its definitely food for thought.

Then I wonder if I would be able to tell when he needed a trim before he needs it....

As you can tell... .I'm a worrier!

 

[Meowy Catkin]

If you have a yard, you could walk him around there to see how he's coping. Rough concrete is a less comfortable/easy surface than smooth tarmac, so if he is OK with concrete, tarmac should be fine. Safety must come first, so definitely take his quirks into account.

Traditionally most horses had a break from shoes during the year, so if the farrier asks, wanting to give him a break from shoes is perfectly valid reason in itself.

You can always put photos on here and people will help. Plus look at the Rockley farm blog. You'll learn a lot from it and you'll soon get your eye used to looking at and assessing hooves. I was plunged into BF, right in the deep end with my mare and I managed not to wear her hooves down to little nubs so I'm sure you'll be OK.

 

[Dyllymoo]

Thank you. I literally worry myself silly about EVERYTHIJNG, which is really tiring (for me and others around me I think!).

 

[ihatework]

If you are going to remove shoes is leave it until later in the autumn after the flush of grass has gone and the ground has softened.

Id plan to have to reduce workload and would do it in line with daylight going etc.

I presume you have riding plans over the next few weeks, so therefore I’d leave him shod until a time it will be easier to back off and it’s a time of year when weight management is easier too.

 

[Dyllymoo]

Yep I am planning on getting a few more miles under our belt before winter sets in and it becomes a struggle with daylight and work. I've got some reading to do and will mention to my farrier as he is on the same yard as me (total coincidence!), so can mention in passing and see what he thinks, but I would think he would suggest at least a couple of months time if not longer.

 

[milliepops]

yes, echo IHW, having read about the progress you've been making with your lovely pony lately I think it would be better from that POV to wait a while, if you want to take shoes off. be a shame if he was one that found it a difficult transition at this time of year and you were sort of grounded by it, while the weather is nice and there's plenty of daylight.

 

[PapaverFollis]

I had a forced transition to barefoot with MrT. He pulled a shoe within a week if him arriving with me and took enough wall off with it that I wasn't happy to have it nailed back on so I went with it and took all of them of. He ended up having the winter completely off while his feet sorted themselves out. Then brought back into work. His feet have completely transformed and he feel more and more sure-footed. We have got boots because we have rough roads but he's working barefoot on the dirt track round the field.

His feet had a similar look to your chaps in shoes. Just looked a bit tight and tired somehow. Not that that makes any sense but it does in my head! I would give yours a break from shoes over winter and see what happens.

Nutrition wise I've had to go down the grass analysis route to get it right but I'd start with minimal feed and Equimins Advance Complete or a Progressuive Earth or a Forage Plus balancer if I was in livery and there was nothing obvious amiss.

 

[Dyllymoo]

Thanks MP that's made me smile. I forget how much progress and fun we have been having recently, J seems to be enjoying it too (even stood by the gate last night asking to come in and looked disappointed when I didn't get any tack out just gave him a groom!)

I'm happy to give him any time off he needs, I just am aware that I don't want him to get too porky before spring next year, but I guess we can cross that bridge.

The farrier does take off quite a lot of hoof each time he does him (6 weekly) so I just worry his feet would get massive, but I guess if I keep an eye on him he will hopefully be ok.

I already do Equimins so that's good. Thank you

 

[Reacher]

Barefoot sounds daunting but don’t be! I missed your thread about what riding plans you have - if you have competitions planned I would wait removing shoes until they are over as other have suggested. Hacking can easily be done in boots, anything done in an arena should be fine, you might struggle competing on grass when it is wet.

I maybe missed something re your comment in previous post about being concerned his feet may become too big but sounds like you have a great setup with your farrier on the same yard. He will probably still need to trim him every 6 weeks or so, just ask if he can bevel the walls as this reduces mechanical leverage on the walls. There is lots of info available and some useful websites are listed here. Scroll down past the first post as there are notebook further down

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/barefoot-info-websites.760014/

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Mmmm... you don't say how long you've had this horse or how long your current farrier has been shoeing him.

I would say that if you have any concerns to speak to your farrier directly; TBH whilst appreciating that some of us on here have a great deal of experience, we are not farriers!