Thoughts on these Hooves

[ycbm]

Mmmm... you don't say how long you've had this horse or how long your current farrier has been shoeing him.

I would say that if you have any concerns to speak to your farrier directly; TBH whilst appreciating that some of us on here have a great deal of experience, we are not farriers!

You've missed post number 8 . Owned, and shod by this farrier, since December 19.

It would be very interesting to see what the feet were like back then, and if they are getting better, or worse. My guess is better, the shoeing looks pretty decent to me.

 

[Dyllymoo]

Mmmm... you don't say how long you've had this horse or how long your current farrier has been shoeing him.

I would say that if you have any concerns to speak to your farrier directly; TBH whilst appreciating that some of us on here have a great deal of experience, we are not farriers!

I have said previously I have had him since October 2019 and Farrier has shod him since December 2019. I am just after some general views about hooves as mentioned I don't have any real knowledge (I know I should do) but would of course speak to my farrier if I had any actual concerns as such.

 

[Dyllymoo]

Ok so I managed to take some photos this morning but forgot his sole pics (sorry!). he was being a fidget as well as he wanted his breakfast but I think they are better though (please ignore the awful scissor job I did on his legs hahaha!)

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I think the shoes are too short. No heel support.

Does he pull them off if he's shod longer at the heel?

I stick by what I said before, if he was mine I'd be pulling the shoes instead of having him reshod next time.

I understand that other people have very good reasons for waiting for the ground to be softer but that's what I would do. Maybe having done it before at the wrong time of year, I'm a bit less concerned about that?

 

[Dyllymoo]

I think the shoes are too short. No heel support.

Does he pull them off if he's shod longer at the heel?

I stick by what I said before, if he was mine I'd be pulling the shoes instead of having him reshod next time.

I understand that other people have very good reasons for waiting for the ground to be softer but that's what I would do. Maybe having done it before at the wrong time of year, I'm a bit less concerned about that?

I've no idea if he pulls them off if he is shod longer as we only had someone else shoe him once since I have had him and this is the way my farrier does him. He did come to me with toe clips so I did wonder if that was an issue in his previous home.

Thank you, will need to have a think as I don't want to risk him getting too fat as I wont be able to do much work with him. We are hacking only at the minute and I would hate to loose the last bit of summer to then spend the next 4 months not seeing him in daylight.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

He's your horse and you need to balance all the little things that I have no clue about and decide the best way forwards. It's so easy for me to say what I would do when I'm not the one who needs to put the time in.

If you decide that you want to keep him shod for now, do that. I do strongly suggest though that you keep taking photos of his hooves regularly so you have a record of any changes (good and bad). This removes doubt and dodgy memories from the equation.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I think the shoes are too short. No heel support.

Agree.

 

[Dyllymoo]

Agree.

Hmmm that's not ideal then. What could this lead to? Would this give you cause for concern, especially if I took his shoes off later rather than his next shoeing (end of August).

 

[Tiddlypom]

This shoe definitely looks too short to me, and is not supporting the heel. Farriers often shoe short as the horse is less likely to pull the shoe off.



Been through this with mine. My vet is very hot on unsupportive shoeing. It’s easy for me to say, but I’d be getting a set of foot balance X rays to see what is going on. Vet can then suggest how to tweak the foot balance if necessary, and the plates are a good record of ongoing progress.

This may be more complicated if the horse is insured.

 

[Dyllymoo]

This shoe definitely looks too short to me, and is not supporting the heel. Farriers often shoe short as the horse is less likely to pull the shoe off.

Been through this with mine. My vet is very hot on unsupportive shoeing. It’s easy for me to say, but I’d be getting a set of foot balance X rays to see what is going on. Vet can then suggest how to tweak the foot balance if necessary, and the plates are a good record of ongoing progress.

This may be more complicated if the horse is insured.

Horse is insured. Would you still get xrays even if you have no immediate worries (apart from the tripping)? I'm all for making sure he is ok so I'm not thinking "I cant be bothered" but I'm just not sure what my reasoning would be? I completely get the "no hoof no horse" saying I'm just trying to understand.

 

[IrishMilo]

Hmmm that's not ideal then. What could this lead to? Would this give you cause for concern, especially if I took his shoes off later rather than his next shoeing (end of August).

If the branches are too short at the back they'll exacerbate underslung heels which is what your horse has. A bit more depth to his heel would be good. Pics of the feet taken from behind the foot and pics of the frog and sole would be great, ideally once the shoes are off.

 

[IrishMilo]

Horse is insured. Would you still get xrays even if you have no immediate worries (apart from the tripping)? I'm all for making sure he is ok so I'm not thinking "I cant be bothered" but I'm just not sure what my reasoning would be? I completely get the "no hoof no horse" saying I'm just trying to understand.

This is a good article to explain why X rays would be useful: https://www.gravelproofhoof.org/low-plantar-angle although personally I'd take the shoes off and see how he goes after a few months.

 

[Tiddlypom]

If it was me, I would be taking the horse to the vets because of the tripping. The tripping could be caused by any number of things, several of which could be pretty minor and easily sorted. Vet would do a basic workup and take it from there.

The problem if you are insured is that the insurance co can be very wary of that approach and may start putting exclusions on, even if nothing is found.

Other folk may well think that there is no need to involve the vets at this stage, though. It’s just the way I do things .

 

[Dyllymoo]

Ok so I have a call in with the vets to see what they think. I'm concerned about getting xrays and it affecting my insurance in the future. I've had 2 horses with serious lameness issues that racked up a lot of vets bills so I'm a bit twitchy if the insurance would then start to exclude all sorts. Going to speak to my farrier as well.

 

[HashRouge]

Tripping was the first indication my mare had developed arthritis. I think talking to the vet is a good idea.

 

[ycbm]

I would want some x rays. There looks to be a bull nose on the right one, which might indicate a poor coffin bone angle.
.

 

[Dyllymoo]

I would want some x rays. There looks to be a bull nose on the right one, which might indicate a poor coffin bone angle.
.

Vet receptionist just called me back and said I could go in for a work up or wait for an orthopedic vet to call me back either later today/ tomorrow so I have gone with the vet call, just as a first port of call. Potentially I could send the pictures of his feet over and see what they recommend but I do think for peace of mind I will probably end up having xrays.

 

[ester]

They look quite a lot like Frank's feet when he was slightly lame, short shod (intentionally but I hadn't understood the ramifications), heel had underun, bullnosed albeit his toes were a bit longer.
I found it interesting (and much more clear) seeing his shoes off.

 

[Dyllymoo]

Spoke to the vet. He said it could be any manor of things and recommended a lameness work up (vet to come to us to do an initial assessment). I asked about xrays of his feet and he said that was another route. Ive booked the xrays and the earliest date is 17th August (for them to come to us). I dont know where I would stand to go to a lameness specialist vet who has gone independent. Would this be allowed as she may do it sooner?

Ugh. Feeling pretty flat now if im honest

 

[Tiddlypom]

Do you have a decent equine horsepital that you could take him to? That what I do, and it is quicker and cheaper than faffing around with call outs.

It can often get sorted out on the day - the workup and then any blocks/scans/x rays done at the same time as required.

 

[Hallo2012]

Just to echo that BF isnt always a daunting mission-Raf is BF and will trot and canter over anything! will happily jog over really rough rocky ground and self trims 99% so it can actually be super easy

 

[Meowy Catkin]

It would be interesting to see if the tripping lessened or stopped if the horse was allowed to bring their toes back themselves. So by taking the shoes off and working the horse (within its capabilities) the breakover point can change due to the natural wear of the hooves.

 

[Hallo2012]

Spoke to the vet. He said it could be any manor of things and recommended a lameness work up (vet to come to us to do an initial assessment). I asked about xrays of his feet and he said that was another route. Ive booked the xrays and the earliest date is 17th August (for them to come to us). I dont know where I would stand to go to a lameness specialist vet who has gone independent. Would this be allowed as she may do it sooner?

Ugh. Feeling pretty flat now if im honest

i think before all this i would take shoes off, and allow a few months to grow the foot HE wants and see if it affects the tripping for better or worse.

 

[Hallo2012]

It would be interesting to see if the tripping lessened or stopped if the horse was allowed to bring their toes back themselves. So by taking the shoes off and working the horse (within its capabilities) the breakover point can change due to the natural wear of the hooves.

agree with this.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I think that it would be a good idea to get X rays now, though, as a starting point.

 

[milliepops]

you said he trips more than others you've ridden, but how much is he tripping? is it daily? or just occasionally? IIRC he's a young horse so if it's only occasionally it might just be a balance thing and not that significant a sign of anything.

not that that should particularly dictate next steps, but i'm not sure it's been clarified so could be a bit of a red herring.

 

[Dyllymoo]

you said he trips more than others you've ridden, but how much is he tripping? is it daily? or just occasionally? IIRC he's a young horse so if it's only occasionally it might just be a balance thing and not that significant a sign of anything.

not that that should particularly dictate next steps, but i'm not sure it's been clarified so could be a bit of a red herring.

It is at least once a ride. Sometimes its a bigger trip than others. The one on his knees was just under 2 weeks ago and I'm.probably noticing it more as it was worrying. Physio said the video shows he is just lazy after the poles. He has done it since I have had him but I dont know really how often it was then as I wasn't as aware I guess.

 

[milliepops]

worth looking into then. was just clutching at straws for you!

 

[Dyllymoo]

worth looking into then. was just clutching at straws for you!

But then maybe I'm being ott?

 

[milliepops]

well as always you're going to end up with 10 different answers because it's so often the case when you're just going on what someone posts on the internet. it's never wrong from the horse's POV to ask the vet for advice, and if he's tripping quite a lot then something is probably not quite right, but it might be something big or something very minor.

Have you spoken to your farrier about this yet? i think you said he's on your yard. as he's someone who has seen the horse in real life and it's probably hands on experienced people that you need guiding you at this stage (which it's totally appropriate to use the vet for, too). If he's the sort that you can ask questions - as some are just not open to discussion and they are a PITA i think - then I'd ask him why he's shod quite short, and whether he can improve the feet and whether he has a view about the tripping and so on.

there's a big supportive group of barefoot folk here, and I'm not disputing that might well be the right route, but if you've got one of the kind of knowledgeable farriers that is interested in more than just whacking shoes on then it might also be useful to have some input from someone who knows him IRL.
does he watch him walk/trot up ever? would he? my OH is a farrier and has a good eye for stuff going on elsewhere, which is just why I'd ask his opinion if your farrier is similar. might just give you more of a clue (and also tee him up for the potential of working with his feet to x rays in the future if it gets to that).