To Stallion or not to Stallion...

amymay said:
Two things spring to mind (well more than two, but two will suffice)

1. You’ve spoken to a livery yard that will accept a stallion - great. What happens if you have to move the horse?

2. If the owner is producing high quality performance horses, they are unlikely to sell to you.
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1) I picked up the phone and called the best yard I know and they said yes. Certainly at some point after should I decide to go with this I will have plans in place should he need to be moved. Starting to feel a little cart before horse here...
2) If there is a willing buyer and a willing seller and he believes me appropriate for his horse, I am not sure I understand why he would not sell it to me? What do you mean by 'if they are performance horses he is unlikely to sell to you'?
 
milliepops said:
why has the current owner not bred from the horse, if the lines are so important or rare that you as a first time stallion owner may do so? just curious.
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I have no answer to this. I have tried to be clear about what I do know, as limited as it is and asked for guidance based on what I do know. I have not even met the horse I am trying to determine why one should, or should not keep a stallion.
 
The owner has a reputation to uphold. If he’s producing horses to a specific high end market he’s unlikely to sell to anyone not able to fulfill his breeding and production objectives - hence his ‘reputation’.
 
milliepops said:
why has the current owner not bred from the horse, if the lines are so important or rare that you as a first time stallion owner may do so? just curious.
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In any case this is no reason not to geld. You can have his semen collected and kept frozen as straws, so that it can be used/sold at any time that seems a good idea in the future.

.
 
HedgePig said:
I have no answer to this. I have tried to be clear about what I do know, as limited as it is and asked for guidance based on what I do know. I have not even met the horse I am trying to determine why one should, or should not keep a stallion.
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That's fair enough, I was just interested based on your answer about possibility mixing breeding duties with ridden work.
 
amymay said:
The owner has a reputation to uphold. If he’s producing horses to a specific high end market he’s unlikely to sell to anyone not able to fulfill his breeding and production objectives - hence his ‘reputation’.
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I shall be happy to ask him why he has deemed me worthy of the opportunity. We have spoken loosely around a sale on terms we both find agreeable.

If you are asking me to tell him he has wildly underestimated my ability and it will subsequently trash his reputation, I'm not sure how I should frame that conversation. Though admittedly I'm starting to feel distinctly talked out of it, Vs into it.

Which I guess is what I asked for.
 
My theory on the breeder thing - if you gf is competing well on a PRE he may see an opportunity to get his bloodlines into Britain and be seen. He probably has siblings to this particular horse and by doing a deal to another country - hoping that either yourself or your gf get the horse out competing doing something to be seen in effect his stud is being seen. It may generate more sales or breeding prospects. Basically he may be using you as a bit of a shop window. No harm in it if he has faith in you and the horse not to screw it all up and make him and his bloodlines look like idiots.

Either that or he is hoping to scam you out of your money and run off into the sunset! It's not unheard of!
 
Personally unless I had my own land and facilities I just wouldn't have a stallion. Most livery yards just aren't set up for them and I'd be very concerned if everything a yard promised fell through I'd be left with very few options of places to move to...
Sorry not your question but, the idea of not riding for 20 years and then buying a flashy stallion as a ridden horse seems bonkers to me!
 
HedgePig said:
I shall be happy to ask him why he has deemed me worthy of the opportunity. We have spoken loosely around a sale on terms we both find agreeable.

If you are asking me to tell him he has wildly underestimated my ability and it will subsequently trash his reputation, I'm not sure how I should frame that conversation. Though admittedly I'm starting to feel distinctly talked out of it, Vs into it.

Which I guess is what I asked for.
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It does all seem a bit odd, he has never seen you ride yet is offering you this horse he has trained for many years to a very high level based on your dedication towards the training of the horse belonging to your girlfriend? not sure if I have missed something but I have no idea how he can estimate your ability as a rider or even as a potential owner when you have very little idea of handling a stallion, you have not ridden any horse for years, have nowhere of your own to keep it, the livery yard may be top class but it is not your home so things could change or it may not be so ideal once the horse moves in, far too many variables that would make me think twice about selling you any horse let alone one I was so invested in.
 
be positive said:
It does all seem a bit odd, he has never seen you ride yet is offering you this horse he has trained for many years to a very high level based on your dedication towards the training of the horse belonging to your girlfriend? not sure if I have missed something but I have no idea how he can estimate your ability as a rider or even as a potential owner when you have very little idea of handling a stallion, you have not ridden any horse for years, have nowhere of your own to keep it, the livery yard may be top class but it is not your home so things could change or it may not be so ideal once the horse moves in, far too many variables that would make me think twice about selling you any horse let alone one I was so invested in.
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This. Something does not add up!
 
EKW said:
My theory on the breeder thing - if you gf is competing well on a PRE he may see an opportunity to get his bloodlines into Britain and be seen. He probably has siblings to this particular horse and by doing a deal to another country - hoping that either yourself or your gf get the horse out competing doing something to be seen in effect his stud is being seen. It may generate more sales or breeding prospects. Basically he may be using you as a bit of a shop window. No harm in it if he has faith in you and the horse not to screw it all up and make him and his bloodlines look like idiots.

Either that or he is hoping to scam you out of your money and run off into the sunset! It's not unheard of!
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The horse for sale isn't a PRE, it's a lippi.
 
EKW said:
My theory on the breeder thing - if you gf is competing well on a PRE he may see an opportunity to get his bloodlines into Britain and be seen. He probably has siblings to this particular horse and by doing a deal to another country - hoping that either yourself or your gf get the horse out competing doing something to be seen in effect his stud is being seen. It may generate more sales or breeding prospects. Basically he may be using you as a bit of a shop window. No harm in it if he has faith in you and the horse not to screw it all up and make him and his bloodlines look like idiots.

Either that or he is hoping to scam you out of your money and run off into the sunset! It's not unheard of!
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It doesn't help to blow ones own trumpet. Particularly when it’s not my trumpet I’m blowing. Yes, my gf certainly is the brains here and I have no doubt were it not for her as a component of all this it would not be a thing.

I must admit it has suddenly taken on a more sinister tone for some reason and I’m trying to determine if it’s just me or something more. I haven’t been asked to fly to Cyprus with uncut diamonds. :)
We are not novices. We are already a PRE ‘family’ if you will and I have been absolutely clear I have taken the offer (nothing has been concluded, I haven’t even met the horse!) as an opportunity I was not expecting. Others seem to suggest this must mean there’s something wrong with me. Or him. Or the horse. I guess this is a risk when you admit you are poorly informed. You get more than you anticipated.

In summary I have clearly got more homework to do. I’m already wanting a horse and this is certainly a horse. I have my doubts if this is the right horse for me but it’s cruel to speculate as to the intent of the parties based on the little information I have.

Though I hear Cyprus is lovely this time of year? ;)
 
be positive said:
It does all seem a bit odd, he has never seen you ride yet is offering you this horse he has trained for many years to a very high level based on your dedication towards the training of the horse belonging to your girlfriend? not sure if I have missed something but I have no idea how he can estimate your ability as a rider or even as a potential owner when you have very little idea of handling a stallion, you have not ridden any horse for years, have nowhere of your own to keep it, the livery yard may be top class but it is not your home so things could change or it may not be so ideal once the horse moves in, far too many variables that would make me think twice about selling you any horse let alone one I was so invested in.
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Without you having been sitting at the table when it came up, it would be hard for me to disagree with you.
Other than it’s a pity you appear determined to frame all of this as sinister.
No deal has been done. He knows I want a horse and he has suggested I look at his.
I am flattered by the opportunity and was hoping for objectivity, which appears to be thinning...

I remain grateful for your take on all this, ill certainly be better positioned should I get to meet the horse this weekend.
 
Bellaboo18 said:
Personally unless I had my own land and facilities I just wouldn't have a stallion. Most livery yards just aren't set up for them and I'd be very concerned if everything a yard promised fell through I'd be left with very few options of places to move to...
Sorry not your question but, the idea of not riding for 20 years and then buying a flashy stallion as a ridden horse seems bonkers to me!
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And bonkers to me. So I thought I’d turn to a community for opinion and I have certainly had some.

I’m excited about meeting him this weekend where I’ll probably have some more information. I’m some way from making any kind of commitment.
 
You said ' he would like you to take ownership' of his stallion that is not a suggestion you look at it or even go and ride it but reads like a nearly done deal, I realise he may not be English so the interpretation may be slightly different to the real meaning, I would be able to understand it more if he had been helping you look for a horse, taken you to try a few and, like many of us are when looking, become disillusioned with what is available on the market thinking it could be a viable option to suit you both.
I don't think it is sinister but it is definitely an unusual situation.
 
be positive said:
You said ' he would like you to take ownership' of his stallion that is not a suggestion you look at it or even go and ride it but reads like a nearly done deal, I realise he may not be English so the interpretation may be slightly different to the real meaning, I would be able to understand it more if he had been helping you look for a horse, taken you to try a few and, like many of us are when looking, become disillusioned with what is available on the market thinking it could be a viable option to suit you both.
I don't think it is sinister but it is definitely an unusual situation.
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I apologise if a single line in my rather lengthy post has caused you to misunderstand.

Nothing has been concluded. No offer has been made nor accepted. Amongst other things we spoke about a year long agreement for training, for both my gf and myself. It was probably clear to him where it has not been to you that I will be taking my horse ownership seriously. With a serious training program. Along with the commensurate investment.

Your speculation beyond that is frankly mildly offensive. I asked for opinions on owning a stallion, not for a keyboard length assessment of my suitably to discuss the ownership of his horse, nor the ability of the several parties involved.

I’d always despaired at the cattiness of some horsey folks and you certainly have not disappointed.

I’ll thank you one last time for your obvious cynicism about it all, ask politely that you stay in your lane in dispensing a wider analysis on both me and my gf and our proficiency and I’ll wish you nothing but the best for your chosen path of horse ownership. Thank you. Hedge.
 
I know you're a new member, OP but be positive is a very level headed experienced person and I very much doubt there was any cattiness intended. It does seem like a highly unusual situation to say the least hence the kinds of replies you're receiving.
Perhaps start a new thread when you've ridden the horse and know more of the details?
 
Hedgepig, I can understand your frustration that this post is not, perhaps, going the way you’d hoped. But, if you stick around the forum you’ll soon find out that BePositive is the least ‘catty’ member you’ll ever come across. Their posts are always considered, helpful and come from a position of experience.
 
milliepops said:
I know you're a new member, OP but be positive is a very level headed experienced person and I very much doubt there was any cattiness intended. It does seem like a highly unusual situation to say the least hence the kinds of replies you're receiving.
Perhaps start a new thread when you've ridden the horse and know more of the details?
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I’m just startled how this has gone from a sincere, legitimate appeal to a community for opinion on owning a stallion and it’s devolved into something fishy because some folks weren’t seated with us at the table when it went to a ‘you might be really good for my horse why don’t you come and meet him sometime?’

It’s hard to be nuanced by text. I have been working hard to accept any obvious issues some may have but I certainly didn’t sign up to be told I’m not worthy of a particular horse and if it’s a serious offer it must be something devious.

I’m just trying to find a horse to love and turn into something special. The question was about stallions. I’m certainly not comfortable where this has ended. But I appreciate your steady response and will work to take it on board.
 
I am well aware people can and do take a long term view and commit to a proper training programme, I have had clients do very much the same but the horses are usually based with me for the duration and I usually have a good idea of their capabilities before I help them find a horse.
My most recent client has PRE's and we have spent the last 6 months on a training plan which this evening proved how far we have come when the young mare jumped 2 super clears on her second outing, it has been a tough few months for her rider who has had a lot to learn but the time and effort is paying dividends now, if only more owners were as committed as you seem to be.
 
amymay said:
Hedgepig, I can understand your frustration that this post is not, perhaps, going the way you’d hoped. But, if you stick around the forum you’ll soon find out that BePositive is the least ‘catty’ member you’ll ever come across. Their posts are always considered, helpful and come from a position of experience.
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I have found everyone to be polite, considered and helpful. It’s unusual for a number of reasons, some of which I don’t have the answers to yet but I’m a willing student and am excited about finding out more.

I guess bp has chosen to take a strong somewhat judgemental position on this and it’s a pity.
Thank you for taking the trouble to reply. I should know more as we go on.
 
HedgePig said:
I’m just trying to find a horse to love and turn into something special.
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The horse is already special, it has been trained right up to capriole, the very highest of the high school arts.

It is extremely difficult to envisage a situation where anyone would offer to sell this horse at a fraction of its market value to someone who hasn't ridden for twenty years, or where someone who hasn't ridden for twenty years and wants a first horse would pay anywhere near its full value.

If you don't understand that that is going to raise questions, then life on an unmoderated forum where you can't control responses may not be for you.

Your thread reminds me very much of a non rider who was intent on getting a racing stables to allow him to learn on a racehorse in training. We never did find out how that ended. I hope you will keep us updated?

.
 
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ycbm said:
The horse is already special, it has been trained right up to capriole, the very highest of the high school arts.

It is extremely difficult to envisage a situation where anyone would offer to sell this horse at a fraction of its market value to someone who hasn't ridden for twenty years, or where someone who hasn't ridden for twenty years and wants a first horse to pay anywhere near its full value.

If you don't understand that that is going to raise questions, then life on an unmoderated forum where you can't control responses may not be for you.

Your thread reminds me very much of a non rider who was intent on getting a racing stables to allow him to learn on a racehorse in training. We never did find out how that ended. I hope you will keep us updated?

.
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At the risk of repeating myself the framework for any such trade has several components. Being a public forum as you agree I didn’t feel it would be appropriate to go over the numbers with strangers. I think I’m being offered a good opportunity. It may turn out I’m being ripped off.

For now I was hoping to get some more information on owning a stallion.

The longer I spend here the more I am convinced it was a terrible idea. I would be happy to keep anyone and everyone involved with progress but given this first run at a forum you’ll accept my caution.

Thank you though for taking the time to follow and reply to this thread. I have read it and reread it today with my gf and I’ll be leaving better informed than when I arrived. Again thank you.
 
Just add my two pennies worth, I got a native pony stallion on loan this year, for breeding purposes, he is a near perfect gent and has been as well behaved as I was told he would be. However, we have our own place, which has caused a lot of extra fencing as we also have mares. And more fencing as my neighbour breeds Welsh ponies 😐
My point is he is happy and so am I in this controlled environment. There is no way I would keep him on a livery yard, it's not just you and the owners it's everybody else 🙄 please read all the posts about livery yard issues, it's a jungle out there!
Hope you get to ride him soon to see if you are a match x
 
You seem to be taking what you want from posts and replying with lengthy wordy replies, but blatantly ignoring the main points.

Keeping a stallion on a livery yard is beyond difficult. I am stunned that you managed to ring up, find a yard that takes stallions AND has a space available all in a couple of hours. The one person I know stupid enough to try and keep a stallion on livery struggles massively. Yards dont want the extra hassle involved.

There is no need to keep this horse entire. You seem to have some weird romanticised notion of what this horse will be. Its just a horse thats has some schooling. It may indeed carry outstanding and rare blood lines, but I cant imagine there is any call for them given there are only 250 pure and part bred lippizaners in total in the UK. If they are highly desirable then collect semen and then geld.

And whether you like it or not this situation is fishy. In fact its downright unbelievable.

A very experienced trainer with a much loved and precious horse who he has invested huge amounts of time and effort in likes you so much has chosen you to buy it, even though it wasnt for sale.

Hes turned down other homes, but decided your home, which doesnt even exist as of yet and may never exist due to the aforementioned livery yard issue, is so perfect, and you are such an absolutely perfect match for this horse, even though he has no idea if you can even ride, and this is all because you get on really well.

I get on really well with lots of people. I wouldnt sell them my horse though. I certainly wouldnt do it having never seen them ride or handle a horse. You havent ridden for 20yrs, which would mean I wouldnt even consider you for my bombproof safe little cob I'm afraid, never mind a highly schooled stallion

This just doesnt ring true.
 
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