ycbm
Overwhelmed
HP, being a new poster you may need to know that H2012 owns a stallion and her previous horse was also a stallion. She speaks from experience most of us don't have.
.
.
To Stallion or not to Stallion...
- Thread starter HedgePig
- Start date
dorsetladette
Well-Known Member
I wasn't going to post on this thread for reasons that I won't go into, but I for one will jump to the defence of stallions who are handled correctly and with the respect they deserve. My parents ran a very successful stud until the break up of their marriage (business more successful then relationship) and I was luck enough to ride a lot of incredibly well schooled and educated stallions. The youngest stallion was kept after the stud was disolved for me to ride. I had him from being 18 months old until 24 when a field accident meant he was PTS. He was kept out on a livery yard and in later years on land I rented with a friend. He was respectful of fences and was kept in close proximity to mares and gelding. My daughter learnt to ride on him, he was like a donkey on the beach with her. He had his quirks and was handled carefully by experienced people.
I took him to local shows and county shows and he behaved impeccably at all (even tho he was welsh!!
) - I wouldn't expect it any other way. We won a championship at a show, while the judges were deciding (it took ages) he fell asleep in the line up. The 2 judges didn't even realise he was entire until the prize giving. I might add that my old boy was used at stud and knew exactly what it was all about, but also knew wish bridle meant 'ladies' and which bridle meant 'work'
But its horses for courses, and when all said and done OP you have said you haven't ridden for 20 years even tho when you did you were competent. If I were in your shoe's I would jump at the chance of the ride of this amazing sounding animal, but I would be cautious of the day to day care. Stallions need to be handled by people with experience the same as youngster do.
TheMule
Well-Known Member
We had a novice livery import a 6yr old stallion from Portugal. The guy was a bit too heavy for the horse and far too unbalanced due to his lack of riding experience. He worked really hard on improving, he only rode the horse in lessons initially, the horse was schooled regularly by us and he did improve, but the horse became gradually more difficult to manage as his whole world had changed dramatically. In the end he was given to us and he brought a lovely generous mare instead which was a much better fit for everyone.
Hallo2012
Well-Known Member
cheers
i would hasten to add that i AM lucky with the cyrrent one, and even the previous big lad...........both would have settled on a quiet livery yard with no issues and the current boy especially is very biddable and easily handled by anyone, and even if put i a tricky situation he would never put a toe out of line.
BUT.....we owned both since 2yo and they were extremely well socialised and used to full body contact with other horses, and being towed around and tied up right next to them, being allowed to touch and sniff and groom..........you may find yours has not had the same upbringing (i dont know) and thus isnt so safe to allow that degree of interaction-accidental or otherwise.
which brings me to my next point....we dont know what we dont know. we all have to learn. but i am not sure a mature stallion on a livery yard is the place to be making mistakes.
I only have to watch my OH handle my pony stallion to know that a bigger horse, on a busy yard and a handler with no stallion experience would be annoying at best and dangerous at worst............and he has the benefit of a very forgiving stallion and a very strict trainer (me!) but still after 4 years wouldnt be able to handle a 16hh+ stallion in public.
HedgePig
Well-Known Member
Hi H2012,
The short answer is until I meet him and ride him I have absolutely no idea.
Over the years I have ridden horses that freeze when you fall off, others that head home no matter what (usually at a high rate of knots), other bounce around a bit then settle. So for the moment I have no idea but I expect at some point I am going to fall off and will need to have thought about this, as might any sensible rider, before I get there. So much depends on one thing which then determines the next its all speculation until I get there. Happy to let you know how it goes when we meet.
HedgePig
Well-Known Member
Hi again H2012,cheers
i would hasten to add that i AM lucky with the cyrrent one, and even the previous big lad...........both would have settled on a quiet livery yard with no issues and the current boy especially is very biddable and easily handled by anyone, and even if put i a tricky situation he would never put a toe out of line.
BUT.....we owned both since 2yo and they were extremely well socialised and used to full body contact with other horses, and being towed around and tied up right next to them, being allowed to touch and sniff and groom..........you may find yours has not had the same upbringing (i dont know) and thus isnt so safe to allow that degree of interaction-accidental or otherwise.
which brings me to my next point....we dont know what we dont know. we all have to learn. but i am not sure a mature stallion on a livery yard is the place to be making mistakes.
I only have to watch my OH handle my pony stallion to know that a bigger horse, on a busy yard and a handler with no stallion experience would be annoying at best and dangerous at worst............and he has the benefit of a very forgiving stallion and a very strict trainer (me!) but still after 4 years wouldnt be able to handle a 16hh+ stallion in public.
Your last paragraph is probably the one that I am drawn to the most. He is not a small horse by breed standard and has a neck like a tree trunk. If your husband, under your expert tutelage is still unable to safely manage a stallion after 4 years of guidance, the bottom line is with the best will in the world I will simply not be able to handle him even if he is mild-mannered, as you have described your own horse. That REALLY scares me. And I do not want to start my relationship with any horse in a state of fear. In my own mind if I get the sense I am just making too many schoolboy errors from the start (despite not being a complete novice) then I doubt again I shall follow through. If I walk into the stall with him and the owner gives me more than perhaps a handful of 'corrections' I MUST accept that this horse is beyond me for the moment. If your husband can't crack it, I'm screwed.
How on earth do people even start with these animals? No wonder there are such opposing positions on what one might expect.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Not many people do, as there’s simply no need. However those with the most experience are those who, like you, have worked at studs.
HedgePig
Well-Known Member
It was a TB stud. And as someone else correctly joined the dots it was for the track. At the risk of oversimplifying, the aim was to get them steady enough that they wouldn't go completely bonkers when they carried a load and they were happy to run like mad. I kept two of my own horses at the facility who were trained for eventing and I was very, very fortune to be surrounded by highly qualified people. Both geldings. But, as I have said a few times, when it came to the stallions they were only ever really around when it was time to cover and my take on them was not the same as I have seen subsequently. Ergo my question: I clearly have a lot to learn. We didn't 'keep' stallions at the yard (there was a breeding shed if thats the right term where we would take mares to be serviced by Stallions that were trucked in, or sometimes we would take the mares to the stallion) but I want to be clear, I have not worked around them where they were a regular fixture at the yard.
AShetlandBitMeOnce
Well-Known Member
This is an interesting consideration re: Stallion ownership that I have never thought about.. And I have been around plenty and have ridden a couple of them (although never owned one myself). Just goes to show that it really is the small details that don't cross your mind that can make a huge difference!
HedgePig
Well-Known Member
I chuckled at your username. That makes you already more qualified than me, I have not been bitten by a Shetland.
It's a good question and while not scientific, I have had horses do any number of things when I fell off. It would depend on the fall, how badly I fell, where I fell. In an area, no big deal. Outside the paddock, tricky unless I managed to retain a reign in a hand. If I was thrown clear it would often mean the horse bolted all the way home. Others would just stop and graze. I have no idea if a stallion is more or less likely to do all or any of these things. Other than gaining the knowledge roughly 0.3 seconds AFTER I needed it.
Bs_mum
Well-Known Member
I don’t care how well trained he is, he’s still a horse, he’s an animal. Not a robot. He’ll have good days and he’ll have bad days like any horse, & if he decides one day he really likes the look of that mare that’s in season, he’ll be there, and there will be very little you can do to stop him. And if you can stop him, you’re then faced with a cross stallion at the end of a lead rope & believe me, that’s terrifying. By your own admission, you haven’t ridden for 20 years, I would assume your interaction with horses during that time have been minimal. It’s an amazing opportunity I agree, but he’s not the right horse for you in your current situation.
HedgePig
Well-Known Member
Hi BS_m and thanks for your thoughts. You are right of course and given you sound like you have been on the business end of a lead reign with a cranky stallion I must take your experience into consideration. I have tried to explain that its not quite as 'green' a setup as I may have initially described, but I can't be almost pregnant here I am either experienced or I am not. And as of right now you are correct, I am not. And certainly where stallions are concerned I am a complete and certifiable novice. Again, a fact.
You have been (politely) added to the rather more lengthy 'no' column in my list. Thank you again. Hedge.
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
Hi H2012,
The short answer is until I meet him and ride him I have absolutely no idea.
I don't know, but i would think H2012 is thinking less about the practicalities of whether said horse will stand there and look at you or not, but the potential liabilities of a stallion running away loose and the issues that presents that are in addition to those when a mare or gelding runs off.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Yes, that’s what I thought too.
HedgePig
Well-Known Member
I actually smiled at that. It did cross my mind that he might tear off in search of a good time. But I must admit I dismissed it as unlikely. Again, not something I had considered, that the moment they are set free they will run off looking to get laid. Got to appreciate that sort of tenacity of course!
But absolutely right, not something you are likely to be able to stop if thats what he has in mind. I wonder if anyone has any experience of their stallion running off and what happened?EDIT: If keeping a stallion means you can't ever expose him to the outside world then that's not really the life I would want for my horse, or any horse.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
Its a huge consideration.
I was at Gatcombe this year when a stallion fell in the sj warm up and got loose. He jumped the ropes and had access to the lorry park / main sj ring / Xc course, depending on which direction he fancied (and he wasn’t seeking to be caught).
luckily he was cornered pretty quickly and I caught him amid screeches from afar ‘he’s a stallion he’s a stallion’ - I’ve done plenty of stud work and was the best place to get hold of him, but his poor connections didn’t know me from adam so probably had mild heart failure at Joe bloggs cornering their boy
Bs_mum
Well-Known Member
I’ve been at then end of many lead reins attached to cranky stallions and its frightening, even for the most experienced owner.
Get a horse by all means, but get something you can enjoy. All horses have their moments, difference being that if a stallion gets away from you as a handler, you could potentially be in a whole word of trouble if it decides to cover a mare, or a fight breaks out if that mare decides she doesn’t want to be covered by said stallion. I can’t imagine any owner would be particularly happy if an accident was to occur!
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
Might make you smile but there'd be a lot of hot water if he found his way to mares and potential for a nasty & expensive accident if their handlers were around at the same time.
Those of us who've been around horses long enough know that if something can go wrong, eventually it will go wrong
Those of us who've been around horses long enough know that if something can go wrong, eventually it will go wrong
HedgePig
Well-Known Member
You are right. It sounds awful to be planning all of this with the worst case scenario in everything, but I need to be realistic. I had a good friend get thrown on a hack (small fluffy dog dashed out while she was actually changing the length of a stirrup) and he was left standing on the ground. The horse bolted, across a busy road and was struck by a truck. Horse survived but it did cause a great deal of drama. In her case her insurance paid out but it changed her attitude to hacking out permanently. So its a fair point.
HedgePig
Well-Known Member
I was trying to inject a little brevity in an otherwise serious topic. I did not mean to make light of it. Is it fair to say you are probably in the 'no' column Millie? HedgeMight make you smile but there'd be a lot of hot water if he found his way to mares and potential for a nasty & expensive accident if their handlers were around at the same time.
Those of us who've been around horses long enough know that if something can go wrong, eventually it will go wrong
Asha
Well-Known Member
Im curious now Hedge, how many nos and how many yes's have you tallied up, and what is your plan ?
HedgePig
Well-Known Member
Hi IHW and thanks for joining the thread.
So in your experience stallions are almost certain to seek out a mare if they break free? I understand there are several variables at play here, a hack in a remote forest v a show ring but I am interested in your answer please? Hedge.
HedgePig
Well-Known Member
No's outnumber yes by a ratio of 7:1
And that's giving any 'yes' a bounce to the column when the answer has been something like 'it takes a lot and its probably not a good idea but you have got to start somewhere'.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
I think my response is you can never accurately predict what a stallion (or any horses) response is going to be if they are in a situation that is adrenaline fuelled / they are scared etc. In those situations they are more likely to act out of character. The thing is you then need an added layer of skill on hand to deal with a loose stallion as opposed to a loose gelding.
ETA: I’ve got a pipe dream where I’d have an Iberian stallion. I’m confident in my own ability to ride and handle but I’m reliant on livery. I’m afraid I just couldn’t guarantee giving a stallion a suitable quality of life on livery hence the pipe dream, and am in the no camp.
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
Not for me to say one way or the other. Can only speak personally, which is that without my own land I wouldn't even consider a stallion. my own field is full of mares so that's no use and I'd have to pay through the nose for suitable specialist livery.
If you want the edginess of an entire animal then mares offer plenty but without the drawbacks. I'd love the opportunity to obtain a highly trained horse so that would appeal but tbh the additional faff would make it a no for me on a personal level.
If you want the edginess of an entire animal then mares offer plenty but without the drawbacks. I'd love the opportunity to obtain a highly trained horse so that would appeal but tbh the additional faff would make it a no for me on a personal level.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
I’ve wrangled a loose stallion before, it does up the heart rate a bit
. A young Fellow Fuego got loose at an affil dressage competion in the lorry park at Field House. He then legged it out onto the main road outside the venue and carried on away up the road. I’d just mounted my lad and set off after him. I can remember the screeches of ‘Stop him, he’s a stallion’. I’m very glad that I was riding a gelding and not a mare, as when I managed to catch FF we ended up nose to tail, me half out of the saddle to hold both set of reins and FF started sniffing my lad’s nethers to see if he was in luck 
. I have never been so relieved to have someone take a horse off me.So don’t underestimate the danger of a loose entire. ETA And in retrospect it was damn silly of me to try. It could easily have ended up with two loose horses and a squashed would be rescuer.
Last edited:
Equi
Well-Known Member
Can’t be bothered with a big reply. No from me based solely on the fact you have no knowledge of handling stallions in a mixed sex uk livery yard.
HedgePig
Well-Known Member
Thank you.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Will we get a graph, I'd like a good bar chart with error bars
AShetlandBitMeOnce
Well-Known Member
A bit off topic but I remember being present when a huge Charolais bull got loose at the South of England show when they were being unloaded, luckily the day before the public arrived. I remember how scary that was as it careered up the side of the lines tents as we all hid inside, and was eventually enticed to an enclosed space by a brave, older Young Farmer with a hefer.
Entire animals of any species can be pretty scary.