Ugly Dressage

[horsesense]

I used to be quite interested in dressage as a demonstration of harmony and understanding in the an affectionate relationship between horse and rider.

I have just been watching the dressage from the London International Horse Show, available on the BBC, having not seen it for several years, and I am shocked at the sight of the poor horses being forced into the most unnatural sequences of exaggerated movements, by a combination of spurred leg aids and tightly held reins, attached to mouthfuls of bits combined with restrictive nosebands. Whilst supporters of dressage will say that all the elements performed are natural movements for the horse when at liberty, the combined sequences are not, and the horses' movements and strides are stultified and restricted, and in particular, the horses' neck and head carriages are unnatural, many of them "behind the vertical".

As a rider with an affection and respect for the horse as a sentient animal, I find such displays of dressage repulsive, and I am surprised that there is not more opposition to the practices employed from the horse loving fraternity.

I am just expressing my perception of what I see, perhaps to stimulate others to criticise these idols of the horse world, but having said my piece I do no not intend to engage in lengthy exchanges on the subject.

 

[Cortez]

I'll save you the effort of engaging with us, just search innumerable threads on here on the same subject.

 

[Ratface]

I agree with the opinions written in the first post.
I watched a small part of the dressage today. I shan't be watching any more.
Disheartening, to say the least.

 

[ycbm]

As a rider with an affection and respect for the horse as a sentient animal, I find such displays of dressage repulsive, and I am surprised that there is not more opposition to the practices employed from the horse loving fraternity.

I am just expressing my perception of what I see, perhaps to stimulate others to criticise these idols of the horse world, but having said my piece I do no not intend to engage in lengthy exchanges on the subject.

it would seem that you haven't read the forum much in the 15 years you've been on it as well as not posting. There is masses of criticism of modern dressage on here, "others" weren't waiting for your stimulation to discuss it.
.

 

[Bonnie Allie]

As with all negative sentiment and criticism of what we see that we disagree with in the horse world - if you don’t like it, show us what it should look like. Get on your horse, do those same movements and demonstrate how it best done.

I don’t think anyone sets out to ride in an ugly manner or harm their horse, but they are doing the best they can with the knowledge and resources they have.

My hubby (who is a trainer) has a favourite saying when people start criticising others. “They are out there doing it, you are not”. ”Show us how you would do it”.

 

[Sossigpoker]

As with all negative sentiment and criticism of what we see that we disagree with in the horse world - if you don’t like it, show us what it should look like. Get on your horse, do those same movements and demonstrate how it best done.

I don’t think anyone sets out to ride in an ugly manner or harm their horse, but they are doing the best they can with the knowledge and resources they have.

My hubby (who is a trainer) has a favourite saying when people start criticising others. “They are out there doing it, you are not”. ”Show us how you would do it”.

I haven't watched the latest,.but in general,.if you're out there "doing it" and it is forced , tense , not harmonious with unhappy horses ,.then perhaps you shouldn't be out there "doing it"

 

[Bonnie Allie]

I haven't watched the latest,.but in general,.if you're out there "doing it" and it is forced , tense , not harmonious with unhappy horses ,.then perhaps you shouldn't be out there "doing it"

Apologies - I’ve not not been clear enough. The point is not about whether it is right, wrong or otherwise. It’s about getting people to hear themselves bagging out others without an active or demonstrative action in place to show what good looks like.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Apologies - I’ve not not been clear enough. The point is not about whether it is right, wrong or otherwise. It’s about getting people to hear themselves bagging out others without an active or demonstrative action in place to show what good looks like.

Well I can't ride advanced dressage moves and neither can my horse but I can and will call out cruel training and poor/unkind riding.
Animals don't have a voice so I shall be more than happy to speak up for them.

 

[mle22]

Why is everybody piling on to the OP?

 

[Dave's Mam]

Why is everybody piling on to the OP?

They're not all.

I also cannot ride advanced dressage, I can just about cobble a prelim together, but I can recognise an unhappy horse.

 

[alexomahony]

There are some out there and doing it - but sadly the judges aren’t marking open frames and empathetic riding well enough, which is encouraging the more common, tense frame we’re seeing too much of… Lewis Carrier was a great example tonight and hopefully as a young rider, will be strong enough in his ethics to continue allowing his horses to go in the frame we saw last night

 

[Glitterandrainbows]

There are some out there and doing it - but sadly the judges aren’t marking open frames and empathetic riding well enough, which is encouraging the more common, tense frame we’re seeing too much of… Lewis Carrier was a great example tonight and hopefully as a young rider, will be strong enough in his ethics to continue allowing his horses to go in the frame we saw last night

This

 

[silv]

There are some out there and doing it - but sadly the judges aren’t marking open frames and empathetic riding well enough, which is encouraging the more common, tense frame we’re seeing too much of… Lewis Carrier was a great example tonight and hopefully as a young rider, will be strong enough in his ethics to continue allowing his horses to go in the frame we saw last night

Just looked him up on YouTube, what a lovely rider, such soft hands and a happy looking horse.

 

[Ratface]

I've just had a look at him and his elegant bay horse doing zoomies past the judges' box and then a pic of them not! Nice, calm rider with kind hands and a relaxed seat. It will be interesting to follow his career.

 

[ycbm]

Why is everybody piling on to the OP?

Because of the sanctimonious tone of the last paragraph when "others" of us have been saying this about modern dressage on this forum for the last ten years and more. The last time I wrote about this was in the last week, with a photograph as well. I also don't like the style of online debate where someone throws a rock into a pond to make ripples but won't take part in the result, which is also openly declared in that paragraph. It got my goat, I'm sorry if you were upset by it but I felt I made a fair reply to the bumptious comment made.
.

 

[eahotson]

I agree with the opinions written in the first post.
I watched a small part of the dressage today. I shan't be watching any more.
Disheartening, to say the least.

Agree.

 

[canteron]

As an aside, if you are a very regular poster and have been for (in many cases) well over a decade, there will be very few new, truly different, or truly different threads.
So I can respectfully suggest, that if someone posts something that has been asked before don’t do a grumpy ‘this has just been done before’ post, unless your aim is to kill the forum. It would be nice to encourage a new generation of posters, if it doesn’t interest you, maybe just pass on by.
If your rules are that you have to do a search before posting anything, then this form will totally discourage anyone new ….. actually I think that is happening anyway!
Sorry for hijacking OP - I just thought your post got an unnecessarily grumpy response from some very regular posters who spend a lot of time on here!!

 

[Goldenstar]

Perhaps Op lives far removed from civilisation and does read the forum much .

 

[alexomahony]

Just looked him up on YouTube, what a lovely rider, such soft hands and a happy looking horse.

I’d not seen him ride before watching the freestyle and the difference between him and the other ‘noisey’ riders was very obvious. It’s a shame he wasn’t marked higher!

 

[splashgirl45]

I have been criticising some modern dressage riders but much of the fault lays with the judges, while they still are marking unhappy horses highly those riders won’t change. Lewis rode beautifully but parts of his test weren’t correct, once he changes that he should be marked higher. Becky Moody rode a fabulous test, very harmonious and I felt she should have been 2nd not 3rd. I would hope the the ones who weren’t marked well look at the top 2 and see how they perform and emulate them.

 

[coblets]

I have been criticising some modern dressage riders but much of the fault lays with the judges, while they still are marking unhappy horses highly those riders won’t change. Lewis rode beautifully but parts of his test weren’t correct, once he changes that he should be marked higher. Becky Moody rode a fabulous test, very harmonious and I felt she should have been 2nd not 3rd. I would hope the the ones who weren’t marked well look at the top 2 and see how they perform and emulate them.

He was also marked down for having 'too open' a frame which it obviously wasnt'. Posted about it on IG.

I went. There were some good bits, some bad bits, but Lottie Fry's test falls under the category of bad bits and no one should be trying to emulate how she rides Everdale. Very tense and restricted, lots of tail swishing just not to the extent of the male French rider's horse.

 

[eahotson]

Apologies - I’ve not not been clear enough. The point is not about whether it is right, wrong or otherwise. It’s about getting people to hear themselves bagging out others without an active or demonstrative action in place to show what good looks like.

The London Horse show has some "Top" dressage riders and should be show casing some really good (not perfect,no one is perfect) riding.Overall it did not.

 

[eahotson]

As with all negative sentiment and criticism of what we see that we disagree with in the horse world - if you don’t like it, show us what it should look like. Get on your horse, do those same movements and demonstrate how it best done.

I don’t think anyone sets out to ride in an ugly manner or harm their horse, but they are doing the best they can with the knowledge and resources they have.

My hubby (who is a trainer) has a favourite saying when people start criticising others. “They are out there doing it, you are not”. ”Show us how you would do it”.

I am in the camp of "Should anyone be doing it really". There is this "pushing the envelope".Making tests ever more technical and difficult and it ends up with stiff miserable horses and riders often.Why not simpler tests ridden well?

 

[Birker2020]

My hubby (who is a trainer) has a favourite saying when people start criticising others. “They are out there doing it, you are not”. ”Show us how you would do it”.

This in bucket loads.

Easy for people to sit on the mounting block in the collecting ring or arena slagging you off but they don't know the struggles you might have with your horse.

People used to say my horse was very good on the roads but there were periods of time when she'd plant, rear, spin and spook and we had many, many battles over our years together although we got there in the end and had a few years when she was literally bomb proof too.

Dressage wise she'd do a half decent novice or elementary test as she had nice paces and was fairly well schooled but not as well as she could have been as she had an owner (me) who never had lessons lol. But she'd also bug*er off in the dressage arena every now and then with her head up so high you could see her blaze from where you were sat!

 

[eahotson]

This in bucket loads.

Easy for people to sit on the mounting block in the collecting ring or arena slagging you off but they don't know the struggles you might have with your horse.

People used to say my horse was very good on the roads but there were periods of time when she'd plant, rear, spin and spook and we had many, many battles over our years together although we got there in the end and had a few years when she was literally bomb proof too.

Dressage wise she'd do a half decent novice or elementary test as she had nice paces and was fairly well schooled but not as well as she could have been as she had an owner (me) who never had lessons lol. But she'd also bug*er off in the dressage arena every now and then with her head up so high you could see her blaze from where you were sat!

No reasonable person would say you have to be perfect or have a perfect horse.When you are watching what is supposed to be top class dressage though you should be able to see some very nice riding.Sadly, too often you do not.

 

[Burnerbee]

It’s all so robotic and must be so so boring and numbing for the horses. I used to defend dressage by telling non horsey people that dressage movement is just what horses do naturally, encapsulated. But now… it’s all gone a bit weird and uncomfortable to watch.

(been reading H&H 40 years in case I’m called a newbie).

 

[Goldie's mum]

I didn't see much of it. (My own version of being one of those who "are out there and doing it" seems mostly to involve being knackered, cold, muddy and no where near a TV.)

What I did see reminded me of the Olympic walking race, where following a set of rules over the decades has caused a completely new way of walking to evolve, that only happens in that specific competition.

 

[Goldie's mum]

Why is everybody piling on to the OP?

The last sentence.
Comes over rude and superior, like the teacher is going out of class for a while but is giving the kiddies some work to get on with.

 

[Goldie's mum]

There are some out there and doing it - but sadly the judges aren’t marking open frames and empathetic riding well enough, which is encouraging the more common, tense frame we’re seeing too much of… Lewis Carrier was a great example tonight and hopefully as a young rider, will be strong enough in his ethics to continue allowing his horses to go in the frame we saw last night

Didn't catch that bit but off to look it up now.

 

[paddy555]

So I can respectfully suggest, that if someone posts something that has been asked before don’t do a grumpy ‘this has just been done before’ post, unless your aim is to kill the forum. It would be nice to encourage a new generation of posters, if it doesn’t interest you, maybe just pass on by.
If your rules are that you have to do a search before posting anything, then this form will totally discourage anyone new ….. actually I think that is happening anyway!
Sorry for hijacking OP - I just thought your post got an unnecessarily grumpy response from some very regular posters who spend a lot of time on here!!

totally agree. I thought the original post got a pretty unnecessary response,

People don't have to post on every thread. Many don't read all the threads. I probably only open about 10% of threads so anything I post may well have been discussed countless times under a different heading. If I had nothing else to do and could devote a lot more time to it I could read a lot more threads.

OP seems to be saying she has not watched dressage for several years and was quite disgusted with what she saw recently. It may be the case therefore that she wouldn't have followed every dressage thread. I don't watch it as quite frankly I find it pretty disgusting ie the tack and methods of riding the horses.

Perhaps Op lives far removed from civilisation and does read the forum much .

alternatively, possibly like some on here, she also have a life in the real world and does not devote most of her time to HHO.