Ugly Dressage

[Kat]

The OP talks about affection and respect for the horse.

I haven't watched the whole thing yet, but I can't see how a rider could show more affection and respect for their horse while in the ring than Caroline Chew or Abigail Lyle. Both clearly adored and we're thrilled with their horses despite mistakes.

 

[little_critter]

I’m watching on iplayer now. I’m not impressed so far, practically pony club kicking into piaffe and the piaffes have no ’sit’ at all. But I’m only on the 2nd rider so far, hoping it improves.

 

[Flagstad]

You're not alone. Though, if I'm being perfectly honest, dressage has never interested in me.

 

[little_critter]

And on the subject of “if you cant do it yourself you can’t criticise“ I can’t ride to that level (nowhere near) but I feel I have a semi educated eye and can call out faults when I see them.
In the same way, if I bought a professionally baked cake and found the icing was a mess and it was half baked in the middle, I don’t need to be a pro chef to point that out.

 

[little_critter]

Although to give a positive comment, I’ve not seen any waterskiing turkeys doing sitting trot yet. That has improved.

 

[NinjaPony]

In the crowd it was clear that the audience preferred the soft and relaxed combinations and felt they should have been placed higher. So I think some of it is definitely a judging issue; softness and relaxation should be prioritised over pin perfect precision, but that might require a change to how tests are scored.

 

[pistolpete]

I was surprised at the level of tension evident. Agree dressage can look very contrived but the three at the top all looked relaxed as performers without tension in my opinion. Dressage is really hard! I do wish however that crossed jaws and swishy tails were marked down. They are obvious signs of horses struggling. Just my view.

 

[Time for Tea]

And on the subject of “if you cant do it yourself you can’t criticise“ I can’t ride to that level (nowhere near) but I feel I have a semi educated eye and can call out faults when I see them.
In the same way, if I bought a professionally baked cake and found the icing was a mess and it was half baked in the middle, I don’t need to be a pro chef to point that out.

Indeed. I think if everyone adhered to this, it would silence most football fans!

 

[Time for Tea]

I know nothing about the precision and technicality of Grand Prix dressage movement. I did think Becky Moodys test was smooth and flowing, and her horse was enjoying himself, I thought.

 

[little_critter]

Another positive: Becky Moody’s canter piris. I liked them, they were still clearly canter. Some of the overly expressive piris look more like a rear/lurch/ spin. They have lost the clarity of the canter.
Becky’s aren’t as dramatic but they are, to me, more pure.

 

[little_critter]

I think my favourite was Becky Moodys test, although I couldn’t really criticise CDJs test.
I didn’t like Lottie Fry’s I’m afraid, I felt Everdale was far too short in the neck throughout.
And build-wise I don’t like Boston STH, really not my type of horse, a bit cut and shut and of the Totilas type.

 

[splashgirl45]

I think my favourite was Becky Moodys test, although I couldn’t really criticise CDJs test.
I didn’t like Lottie Fry’s I’m afraid, I felt Everdale was far too short in the neck throughout.
And build-wise I don’t like Boston STH, really not my type of horse, a bit cut and shut and of the Totilas type.

Becky’s was my favourite by far, CDJ won which was the correct result and I did think Imhotep wasn’t quite so BTV as he has been previously, still needs to improve in that area IMO but his movement is amazing and CDJ can really ride a good test. Everdale was BTV too much and not as flowing or as harmonious as Becky’s so I felt that Becky should have been 2nd, the judge at E thought so too

 

[Gloi]

I do wish however that crossed jaws and swishy tails were marked down. They are obvious signs of horses struggling. Just my view.

I'm often watching dressage at lower levels and wish the judge marked down tension more. Watching elementary not long ago , horses which were being spurred hard into the bridle and with spinning tails and protruding tongues were still getting placed . It really puts me off.

 

[claracanter]

He was also marked down for having 'too open' a frame which it obviously wasnt'. Posted about it on IG.

I went. There were some good bits, some bad bits, but Lottie Fry's test falls under the category of bad bits and no one should be trying to emulate how she rides Everdale. Very tense and restricted, lots of tail swishing just not to the extent of the male French rider's horse.

So glad you called her out. I was shocked watching her test and her horses frame and tension. It made me think so much is made of how ‘hot’ some of these dressage horses are but perhaps it’s not the breeding but the stress of what they are made to do it and the way they have to do it that causes the tension. They are such willing animals but sometimes they need an advocate. I can’t believe what some judges give high marks for. I much prefer eventing dressage.

 

[TwyfordM]

Watched the freestyle last night, now admittedly I haven't really followed/watched in years.

My eyes were immediately drawn to what seemed not far off pony club kicking and lots of spur use at times. Over bent necks, horses seemingly tense and lacking the energy in moves like piaffe etc

Nothing flowed, rather than a routine to music felt more like structured tests with movements to perform.

I was wondering after the 5/6th test in a row like that if I've just gotten used to seeing endurance racers and valuing ground covering extension, very long and low letting the horse have it's head to navigate terrain etc ...

You expect some tests to go awry, it's a big arena/atmosphere and river nerves etc but it was like a conveyer belt

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I was quite shocked at the quality (or lack thereof) of the piaffe's in a fair few of the riders last night.. no rhythm, no suspension, no energy, just picking up vaguely close pairs of legs and putting them back down it felt like. CDJ has always produced a good piaffe in all her horses, I have to say.

 

[Chianti]

As with all negative sentiment and criticism of what we see that we disagree with in the horse world - if you don’t like it, show us what it should look like. Get on your horse, do those same movements and demonstrate how it best done.

I don’t think anyone sets out to ride in an ugly manner or harm their horse, but they are doing the best they can with the knowledge and resources they have.

My hubby (who is a trainer) has a favourite saying when people start criticising others. “They are out there doing it, you are not”. ”Show us how you would do it”.

I completely disagree. You don't have to be able to ride at grand prix level to look at what passes for dressage today and feel that it's not a picture of relaxation and harmony. I'm a happy hacker who gave up on trying to perfect a 20 metre circle in trot years ago but I can see it.

Riders know that over use of spurs and the bit isn't the best way to ride and there are trainers out there who will help them to ride without relying on these. Unfortunately the FEI system does not work for the horse. Read 'I Can't Watch Anymore' or follow the EPONA. tv Facebook page to see how horses are treated in the competition world.

 

[coblets]

It made me think so much is made of how ‘hot’ some of these dressage horses are but perhaps it’s not the breeding but the stress of what they are made to do it and the way they have to do it that causes the tension.

think there might be evidence of this in Everdale because he seemed really chilled after the test and in the presentation.

Anyhoo I did also mention good bits in my post . IMO Jorinde Verwimp's Charmer had a more open frame than I expected from a Belgian rider. The extended trot was largely correct and not what you often see where the forelegs are flying out and not parallel with the hinds. Horse clearly struggled with collection which isn't news about warmbloods. Watching her I did think that maybe she was spurring a lot during the collected movements but when I rewatched my video of her, I saw that the spur wasn't often actually making contact with Charmer's side. Actually several times I thought that the spur was moving a lot, with different riders, but when I zoomed in on the camera, I could see that it was the ankle moving and there weren't indendets being made against the horse. IMO the tempis were some of the best I've seen in dressage competitions I've watched, much more harmonious and steady-tailed than often happens. Kathleen Kröncke and Uniteds Maerchen stand out to me in this respect, Caroline Chew Blue Hors Zatchmo also although he could be stiller in the mouth. Half passes were also better than I've seen before. IMO yes the piaffe standard wasn't amazing but everyone knows that warmbloods struggle with it. It is the most difficult part of the test for a reason. Uniteds Maerchen did still manage a nice attempt where the horse was sitting and the head wasn't behind the vertical.

The two riders representing France were the worst in terms of harmony and openness IMO.

I think there are things to like and things to dislike, but some people want to dislike it so hard that they don't look at the overall picture IMO.

I also found the music very loud. I wouldn't be surprised if that was partially to blame for the horse's tension. It was an overwhelming environment for me and I'm not a horse.

 

[equinerebel]

The idea of “if you don’t ride at that level you shouldn’t comment” is interesting when you consider it’s the non riding public who will likely decide equestrian sports future

 

[misst]

I switched it off the other night as I just found it uncomfortable to watch. My OH who is totally not into anything horse related was a bit surprised as he had given me the TV to myself to watch. My exact words to him were I cannot watch it as there is no harmony that I can see and no pleasure in watching it. I usually really enjoy dressage.

 

[splashgirl45]

think there might be evidence of this in Everdale because he seemed really chilled after the test and in the presentation.

Anyhoo I did also mention good bits in my post . IMO Jorinde Verwimp's Charmer had a more open frame than I expected from a Belgian rider. The extended trot was largely correct and not what you often see where the forelegs are flying out and not parallel with the hinds. Horse clearly struggled with collection which isn't news about warmbloods. Watching her I did think that maybe she was spurring a lot during the collected movements but when I rewatched my video of her, I saw that the spur wasn't often actually making contact with Charmer's side. Actually several times I thought that the spur was moving a lot, with different riders, but when I zoomed in on the camera, I could see that it was the ankle moving and there weren't indendets being made against the horse. IMO the tempis were some of the best I've seen in dressage competitions I've watched, much more harmonious and steady-tailed than often happens. Kathleen Kröncke and Uniteds Maerchen stand out to me in this respect, Caroline Chew Blue Hors Zatchmo also although he could be stiller in the mouth. Half passes were also better than I've seen before. IMO yes the piaffe standard wasn't amazing but everyone knows that warmbloods struggle with it. It is the most difficult part of the test for a reason. Uniteds Maerchen did still manage a nice attempt where the horse was sitting and the head wasn't behind the vertical.

The two riders representing France were the worst in terms of harmony and openness IMO.

I think there are things to like and things to dislike, but some people want to dislike it so hard that they don't look at the overall picture IMO.

I also found the music very loud. I wouldn't be surprised if that was partially to blame for the horse's tension. It was an overwhelming environment for me and I'm not a horse.

That’s interesting that the music was loud while there so they must have turned the sound down a lot for the tv as I could hardly hear it above bobbys chatter , I turned the sound up on my tv but the music was still drowned out by the commentary and I couldn’t cope with the commentary being any louder .

 

[indie1282]

I didn’t enjoy CDJs test at all. I thought it looked tense and uncomfortable and she was leaning back and driving the horse in the canter.

 

[blodwyn1]

I don't think çdj partnership with Imhotep is anything like that she had with Valegro. When she rode Valegro you could hardly see her aids and her contact seemed so light. Now with Imhotep she seems to have heavier hands and more exaggerated aids it doesn't seem as magical.

 

[eahotson]

I ready some comments on my Facebook.A lot were scathing.The one that seemed to get was the most positive comments was Carrier.I know that we bang on quite a lot about the poor standards of riding at the top end riding on here.I think we need to keep on banging on

 

[shortstuff99]

It doesn't help that both Imhotep and Everdale have the worst neck conformation (which clearly Everdale passed on to his son) which really emphasises when they are tight in the neck. CDJ loves a rock hard contact she even had it with Valegro.

What was shocking to me for what is supposed to be the top level grand prix was the amount of horses on the forehand

 

[Ceifer]

So glad you called her out. I was shocked watching her test and her horses frame and tension. It made me think so much is made of how ‘hot’ some of these dressage horses are but perhaps it’s not the breeding but the stress of what they are made to do it and the way they have to do it that causes the tension. They are such willing animals but sometimes they need an advocate. I can’t believe what some judges give high marks for. I much prefer eventing dressage.

I have ridden several Van Olst horses in the past.
They were all incredibly sharp and if I’m honest not pleasant. One of the ones I rode Lottie campaigned for a while but he regularly used to explode and lose the plot, once this happened there was very little reasoning with him and I’ve noticed he’s not been out lately. The horses at their stables are drilled and have a regimented routine, no turnout and jacked up on a ton of hard feed.
I’ve ridden two that have come over here that weren’t going make it to top level but have gone Advanced. Both require a lot of management, still very sharp and not my cup of tea but possibly a bit happier.

 

[Time for Tea]

I have ridden several Van Olst horses in the past.
They were all incredibly sharp and if I’m honest not pleasant. One of the ones I rode Lottie campaigned for a while but he regularly used to explode and lose the plot, once this happened there was very little reasoning with him and I’ve noticed he’s not been out lately. The horses at their stables are drilled and have a regimented routine, no turnout and jacked up on a ton of hard feed.
I’ve ridden two that have come over here that weren’t going make it to top level but have gone Advanced. Both require a lot of management, still very sharp and not my cup of tea but possibly a bit happier.

I do hope so. Is the exploitation of the competition animal as severe for it as life was for, say, the carriage horse of 150 years ago? Those did not last very long. But neither do most dressage horses.

 

[Boulty]

I don’t personally think you necessarily need to be able to execute a movement to know what it SHOULD look like when done correctly (& vaguely why it should look like that). I don’t think you need to be riding at GP to comment on riders at the top of the sport and how what they’re doing may impact horse welfare / the overall picture they’re presenting. Yes I get that tension due to the atmosphere can play a part but if a horse is regularly showing a lot of tension due to that then I think there’s an ethical discussion to be had about how fair it is to keep putting that horse in that environment on a regular basis.

I do not ride at anything like that level / wouldn’t be able to ride one side of any of those horses but I agree with comments re some horses being on the forehand & the quality of most of the piaffes bar maybe 2 or 3 of them. No I haven’t intentionally ridden a piaffe (a version of was an unintentional party trick that the Welsh sometimes brought out) but vaguely working towards it with Fuzzball (vaguely working towards a lot of things I’ll be honest!). I do know that the horse shouldn’t be on the forehand/ hollow backed for it to have a benefit as a schooling exercise.

I’m also another who didn’t like the tension in Everdale or the neck carriage of him & Imhotep. (Although I can understand with his paces & how balanced & rhythmical he looked doing some of the high scoring moves why he scored in a different league to the rest… still doesn’t make the head carriage a good thing)

I really liked Becky Moodys test & think she was my favourite overall. Horse actually looked to be enjoying it which sadly can’t be said for a lot of the rest. I think Lewis might have been on whilst I was sorting tea and haven’t got around to watching back yet but the photos I’ve seen look lovely, really soft hands and relaxed looking horse.

 

[rextherobber]

I do hope so. Is the exploitation of the competition animal as severe for it as life was for, say, the carriage horse of 150 years ago? Those did not last very long. But neither do most dressage horses.

Carl Hester shared a video the following day, of Imhotep back home being turned out in the field with a friend, his horses at least do seem to have "normal" lives, they hack and spend the majority of their time in a field. I am another who found it uncomfortable viewing, lots of tension and exaggerated aids.

 

[ycbm]

Carl Hester shared a video the following day, of Imhotep back home being turned out in the field with a friend, his horses at least do seem to have "normal" lives, they hack and spend the majority of their time in a field.

Do Carl and Charlotte's horses live out full time? That would be more than unusual for horses of that class.
.