Update on Grump thread

[Widgeon]

You could have just walked past muttering under your breath and saved all this hassle?

I'm a little bit horrified that so many people seem to think that we should all shut up and put up with small aggressive dogs. Personally I think OP was right to say something - it doesn't sound like she made a particularly big deal out of it, surely that's why she's so shocked at the level of retaliation.

OP I'm glad the police are taking you seriously and I really hope you get somewhere with the CCTV. I hope you're feeling less rattled by it now.

 

[Sandstone1]

I'm a little bit horrified that so many people seem to think that we should all shut up and put up with small aggressive dogs. Personally I think OP was right to say something - it doesn't sound like she made a particularly big deal out of it, surely that's why she's so shocked at the level of retaliation.

OP I'm glad the police are taking you seriously and I really hope you get somewhere with the CCTV. I hope you're feeling less rattled by it now.

Thank you, I agree about people thinking its ok for small dogs to behave like that. It was not just their behaviour but the amount of dogs too. I have calmed down a lot but it says a lot about the woman, that to do damage like that just because someone comments on the bad behaviour of her dogs.

 

[minesadouble]

Just to let you all know that I had a long conversation the other day with a very helpful Policeman. They are taking the possibility of getting cctv footage seriously , There is cctv in the area it just depends if it covers the area needed and if so if its clear. They are in the process of trying to get footage from the security firm.
If not, there is the possibility of at least a visit from the police due to the dangerous dogs act and her pack of dogs behaving in a manner to give fear and apprehension.
Time will tell.

Offences under the Dangerous Dogs act all to hinge one the dog being 'dangerously out of control' which I don't think really applies in this situation so I think the Police Officer is barking up the wrong tree there (pardon the pun)!

Imagine the chaos.the legal system would be in if we allowed people.to pursue action because a dog on a lead caused 'fear and apprehension', anyone with a dog phobia could claim this 20 times per day!

 

[Sandstone1]

Offences under the Dangerous Dogs act all to hinge one the dog being 'dangerously out of control' which I don't think really applies in this situation so I think the Police Officer is barking up the wrong tree there (pardon the pun)!

Imagine the chaos.the legal system would be in if we allowed people.to pursue action because a dog on a lead caused 'fear and apprehension', anyone with a dog phobia could claim this 20 times per day!

Not the case, read the dangerous dogs act. If they act on its another thing. https://doglaw.co.uk/dangerous-dogs/section-3-dangerous-dogs-act-1991/

 

[Tiddlypom]

Offences under the Dangerous Dogs act all to hinge one the dog being 'dangerously out of control' which I don't think really applies in this situation so I think the Police Officer is barking up the wrong tree there (pardon the pun)!

Imagine the chaos.the legal system would be in if we allowed people.to pursue action because a dog on a lead caused 'fear and apprehension', anyone with a dog phobia could claim this 20 times per day!

Controlling your dog in public

You can be fined if your dog is out of control in public - find out about Dog Control Orders, banned dogs, dog fouling and reporting a dangerous dog

www.gov.uk

Out of control​

Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it:

• injures someone
• makes someone worried that it might injure them

A court could also decide that your dog is dangerously out of control if either of the following apply:

• it attacks someone’s animal
• the owner of an animal thinks they could be injured if they tried to stop your dog attacking their animal

 

[minesadouble]

Controlling your dog in public

You can be fined if your dog is out of control in public - find out about Dog Control Orders, banned dogs, dog fouling and reporting a dangerous dog

www.gov.uk

Out of control​

Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it:

• injures someone
• makes someone worried that it might injure them

A court could also decide that your dog is dangerously out of control if either of the following apply:

• it attacks someone’s animal
• the owner of an animal thinks they could be injured if they tried to stop your dog attacking their animal

The Act states there must be 'reasonable' apprehension that an attack will take place. Where a dog is held on a lead this is unlikely to be thought 'reasonable'.

I'm not sure what you have quoted above but it is not written in the style of a statute so it looks as though it's someone's interpretation of it.

Honestly, if a case such as this ever got as far as court I would eat my hat. It would not be in the public interest to prosecute in such a case.

It's not unusual for me to walk past aggressive or nervous aggressive dogs when I have my dog out. I just feel lucky that I have a well trained and well balanced dog who completely ignores them.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I'm not sure what you have quoted above but it is not written in the style of a statute so it looks as though it's someone's interpretation of it.

It's straight off the gov.uk link I posted.

 

[Arzada]

Imagine the chaos.the legal system would be in if we allowed people.to pursue action because a dog on a lead caused 'fear and apprehension', anyone with a dog phobia could claim this 20 times per day!

Asif Bharucha was fearful of being bitten by a dog and died running from a loose dog and falling off a cliff http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/4209865.stm

You'd think you'd be safe somewhere as remote as the SW Coast Path but no. My friends and I were luckily in a wide part of the path when an aggressive off lead brown dog ran towards us barking and displaying its incisors. There were 4 entitled adults with the dog. My friends were in front and one of the other party advised not looking at their dog because it made him aggressive. He was already aggressive. Yes really, that's what she said. I mean who would take their eyes off an aggressive dog. Not please stand still while I un-entitle myself and put my aggressive dog on a lead and get it until control so that it won't interfere with you while you're trying to enjoy the great outdoors safely. The dog then focused on me. I stood still and stared at it while it went through its repertoire and its entitled owners said and did nothing. It sloped off as did its people.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Asif Bharucha was fearful of being bitten by a dog and died running from a loose dog and falling off a cliff http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/4209865.stm

You'd think you'd be safe somewhere as remote as the SW Coast Path but no. My friends and I were luckily in a wide part of the path when an aggressive off lead brown dog ran towards us barking and displaying its incisors. There were 4 entitled adults with the dog. My friends were in front and one of the other party advised not looking at their dog because it made him aggressive. He was already aggressive. Yes really, that's what she said. I mean who would take their eyes off an aggressive dog. Not please stand still while I un-entitle myself and put my aggressive dog on a lead and get it until control so that it won't interfere with you while you're trying to enjoy the great outdoors safely. The dog then focused on me. I stood still and stared at it while it went through its repertoire and its entitled owners said and did nothing. It sloped off as did its people.

There is a huge difference between a loose dog making straight for you, or chasing someone and a dog on a firmly held lead, even if it is yappy or growling. How could that dog attack you or your dog?

 

[Tiddlypom]

The OP posted that the owner was struggling to keep hold of all the dogs, some of which were growling. It wouldn't take much for a single person trying to keep hold of too many leads to get wrong footed and fall over or drop a lead and release one or more of their dogs.

It is NOT ok to walk dogs in public which growl at other dogs or people. Loud but harmless barking is one thing, that's just noise, but growling at dogs or people is active aggression and there is no place for it in public .

 

[skinnydipper]

There is a huge difference between a loose dog making straight for you, or chasing someone and a dog on a firmly held lead, even if it is yappy or growling. How could that dog attack you or your dog?

On lead dogs can attack another on lead dog. Silently.

Unfortunately things ended badly (this could be another thread in itself). She was on leash and pulled her owner towards another on leash dog which she then attacked, the owner was unable to disengage her from the victim which she shook and flung about until it was scalped down neck and back and sustained oesophageal damage. This resulted in surgery and 2 weeks hospitalisation, firstly at their own vet and then transferred to a specialist vet. It was lucky not to be killed or die of fright.

Result: Injured and traumatised victim, £5,500 vet bill and aggressor PTS. Not a good outcome for anybody.

 

[Arzada]

There is a huge difference between a loose dog making straight for you, or chasing someone and a dog on a firmly held lead, even if it is yappy or growling. How could that dog attack you or your dog?

I was vaguely distracted there when I posted. But the on lead attack question is interesting. I was cycling up a steep hill a couple of weeks ago. I was on the road. A car was approaching from behind. I was about 12" from the kerb. Oncoming on the pavement were 2 on lead Yorkies. I noticed that the leads were short. So the Yorkies and their owner, me in the middle and and the car passing alongside when one of the Yorkies launched off the pavement to attack at me. Luckily I had clocked the hazards and didn't swerve off into the path of the passing car. And luckily the lead was short enough that the Yorkie didn't get me. But it could all have gone wrong and it was me who would be injured. What would have been good would have been for the dog owner to have seen all the same things and got her dog on her right or at least on a shorter lead. Did the owner apologise? No she said Oi to the yappy little dog. I told her to get her dogs under control so I was followed up the hill by the sounds of her repeated FOs.

Edited to add that if there had not been a car approaching from behind and likely to pass me I would have been further away from the kerb. After numerous dog incidents I like to give them a wide berth

 

[stormox]

A lot of "if..." and "could have.." situations in this thread.
And I still can't see how the OP can be so sure it wasn't kids messing around or some other idiotic person damaged her car.
Time will tell ...... but I can't see the police getting involved with little brats of dogs when there's so much real crime - including animal cruelty and stolen dogs- that doesn't get investigated.

 

[Sandstone1]

A lot of "if..." and "could have.." situations in this thread.
And I still can't see how the OP can be so sure it wasn't kids messing around or some other idiotic person damaged her car.
Time will tell ...... but I can't see the police getting involved with little brats of dogs when there's so much real crime - including animal cruelty and stolen dogs- that doesn't get investigated.

Because of where the car was parked, no one else there. I am not getting in to the whole thing again but there is no doubt it was her. Keying a car is vandalism.

 

[Sandstone1]

A update on the update! Sadly although there is cctv it does not cover the area where cars were parked. However, due to the dogs behaviour and the amount of dogs she was walking plus the fact that criminal damage was done to my car the person will be getting a visit from the police in next few days to discuss the dogs behavior and advise her on keeping them under proper control. Although we can not prove she did the damage to my car it will be mentioned by the police. Although it does not help me I feel better that she will be getting a visit and may make her think about not behaving in such a childish and petty way again and that she may keep her dogs under better control in future.

 

[SantaVera]

I'm glad you reported the incident to the police,and also that they are visiting the woman.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Good outcome OP