Vibes for me... Am about to get nasty and violent :(

Haha i love how an awful lot of people took your op completly the wrong way. In fact a large majority agreed with what you had said in using force to reprimand behaviour, said they had done it themselves then went on to say how disgusted they were at you considering 'violence'. Well QB, i know you dont know me but i followed your story of Ebony closely and am looking forward to the next part of her tale :) x
 
Yes amymay there is a reason, it's yard policy. He has had plenty of interaction with other horses and good manners instilled by them just not there. There is no danger with the gate, they can't get themselves caught in the bars it's not that sort of gate. For the most part he is actually far happier on his own, he had a real problem being close to other horses after he lost ebony I wouldn't have put him in a field with them... He seemed to resent them :( he goes out in his field roles, tail up, skips around, head down, eats, then wanders off to see his mate at the top of the field where the hedge is, then settles back to eating. He's a horse that would quite happily be isolated in a stable all day if left up to him, he is also a horse that prefers human company to horse company. I'm not stubborn and ignorant on this, I got company for ebony because she needed it, he doesn't he has a good level of company not as much as he could but nowhere near as little as he could either. I also have to say that other than his recent blip I have never seen a bunch of more happy healthy bright and well balanced horses at the yard... And all of them kept individually, not saying its the best practice for all horses, but it's certainly not bad for them
 
I know what it's like to have a youngster when they start getting feisty! My motto, which works for me, is to always have a very clear differential between good behaviour and bad behaviour. Good behaviour is rewarded by me being calm, quiet and gentle, relaxed etc whereas bad behaviour is immediately highlighted as being unacceptable. The reaction to the bad behaviour depends on how extreme it is, so actually most things are easily rectified by a ferocious growl (which works well because it's used so rarely) but something like a cheeky nip by the youngster or a sidekick whilst being led or anything worse gets a stiffer, short, sharp shock and then rewarded when they begin to behave again. Basically a very clear message about what behaviour wasn't acceptable. With this type of handling my youngster was well mannered, friendly and placid.

My only other experience was that any horse but particularly young ones seem to find it notoriously difficult to concentrate and behave when they have any excess energy, so if I thought that any bad behaviour was due to this I would firstly get rid of this energy by putting him on the lunge until he looked tired and ready to listen. This usually did the job.

For me occasional firm discipline is preferable to constant niggling and nagging. However, ultimately it depends on your situation and I think also what type of personality you have (hope that doesn't sound too fluffy). Everyone is different and does things differently, particularly horsey people, but I think most horses turn out ok despite this.
 
Have a look at chiffneys and how to use them and get an experienced person to show you how to use one. Seriously, we had a horse 17hh on full livery who would run off mess about and generally cause danger to YO and others, started leading him in a chiffney and there you go nothing. Leads slowly, calmly and respectfully. When you have him leading properly with respect you can go back and start your ground work.

You need respect which you don't have and it's scaring you as it would anyone. So you need to start somewhere.

What's he fed?
 
lastchancer said:
Maybe you could share some of your valuable advice with all of us stupid people, rather than just chipping in with snide comments.
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You'll be lucky! PR doesn't share his experience. He just bitches.

Never used to see so many badly behaved, rude horses before it became fashionable to treat horses like humans. I am no advocate of beating a horse, but have no hesitation in giving an unruly beast a whop with a short length of blue pipe ( in preference to a whip - because it makes a lot of noise, but doesn't hurt as much) while he is in mid sin. Funny how there are rarely any responses to people mentioning that horses in a herd situation will use far more force than a human can to instil good manners in a young hooligan.
 
Hope it all goes ok QB :)

I got the Dizz in last night. She came to my call (pleased me, pee'd off D - oops). She was good, other than pushing me out of the way with her body. She got a very sharp elbow rammed in her side and a very loud "Oi! Bog Off B!tch Face!", which made me a bit :( as she had come to me, but one surprised look on her face later and then the softest sweetest mare ever :D. A dream to lead and handle :D. I know her. If I hadn't had the outburst, she'd have been an absolute witch. She needs a leader that offers love and security as standard, with firm reprimands thrown in as and when required :cool:
 
Auslander said:
Funny how there are rarely any responses to people mentioning that horses in a herd situation will use far more force than a human can to instil good manners in a young hooligan.
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That's rather the point: he lives by himself and doesn't get any of that kind of interaction. He's prob not got a clue what he's done wrong, and quite possibly won't know how to react to a severe telling off.
 
QB the words you used "nasty" "violent" "pasting" are not conducive to sorting out a problem horse.

If I came on here and said my 3.5 year old daughter is being rude and aggressive and I've had enough so I am going to get nasty and violent towards her and give her a pasting, would anyone agree it was a good course of action. I doubt it.

I am not a namby pamby, I discipline my animals, they don't step out of line, but I don't have to get nasty, violent or hand out pastings to achieve this.
 
Kallibear said:
That's rather the point: he lives by himself and doesn't get any of that kind of interaction. He's prob not got a clue what he's done wrong, and quite possibly won't know how to react to a severe telling off.
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I don't see that it's the point at all. It could also be said that horses don't know why they have been kicked/bitten by older herd members when they first start to push their luck.
If he doesn't yet know that being a bargy, pushy git is not acceptable - he will soon work it out if he receives a short sharp shock every time he does something rude. Ideally he would be out with others, but the OP doesn't have a choice. Therefore, she is taking responsibility for dishing out the discipline that he would get from another horse for bad behaviour.
 
Moon said:
Haha i love how an awful lot of people took your op completly the wrong way. In fact a large majority agreed with what you had said in using force to reprimand behaviour, said they had done it themselves then went on to say how disgusted they were at you considering 'violence'. Well QB, i know you dont know me but i followed your story of Ebony closely and am looking forward to the next part of her tale :) x
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Clearly. The horse is dead.:o
 
Queenbee said:
Yes amymay there is a reason, it's yard policy.
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Well that's a terrible shame. But as you don't have a choice, there's not much you can do, sadly.

For the most part he is actually far happier on his own, he had a real problem being close to other horses after he lost ebony I wouldn't have put him in a field with them... He seemed to resent them
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I think you're putting far to much human emotion on him here.

Anyway good luck with his progress. He's a smashing horse and I'm sure will give you years of fun.
 
So erm... OP you wanted your horse to get hurt when he kicked out at the fencing? Wow, you must really not like him in which case sell him as someone else will. The fact your psyching yourself up to give your horse "a pasting" really is shocking. In my opinion you're not experienced enough to be dealing with a youngster if you cant teach him manners without turning to the use of a whip. Too many people are like you and think beating a horse will sort a situation. Sure, he'll probably have 'manners' of some form by the end of it but he'll be an extremely unhappy horse. You must have a really good relationship with him...

And for the record I had a 3yo Welsh Cob (15.2hh so not tiny) who was hell when I bought him. He was seriously horrible and some people would definately have said he was dangerous at that stage. I gave him manners after a lot of simple hard work, not once was a whip used. As a result we ended up having the strongest bond Ive had in any horse Ive owned. You mention he is better kept on his own, IMO this is the worst thing you can do. As someone else has said, its a herd situation where manners and respect are taught. My welsh cob was kept by its owner on its own as a 2yo - this I firmly believe led to him simply not knowing what the rules where.
 
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FfionWinnie said:
If I came on here and said my 3.5 year old daughter is being rude and aggressive and I've had enough so I am going to get nasty and violent towards her and give her a pasting, would anyone agree it was a good course of action. I doubt it.
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Totally different IMO and these type of posts that compare horses & children are completely ridiculous.

Maybe if your child was 600kg+, with lightning speed and could basically kill you if she so felt like it :rolleyes:
 
Auslander said:
You'll be lucky! PR doesn't share his experience. He just bitches.

Never used to see so many badly behaved, rude horses before it became fashionable to treat horses like humans. I am no advocate of beating a horse, but have no hesitation in giving an unruly beast a whop with a short length of blue pipe ( in preference to a whip - because it makes a lot of noise, but doesn't hurt as much) while he is in mid sin. Funny how there are rarely any responses to people mentioning that horses in a herd situation will use far more force than a human can to instil good manners in a young hooligan.
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:D:D:D:D at the PR comment and agree 100% with the rest!
 
I have a horse on my yard who sadly had had a few ' pastings' in the past. When he arrived on the yard a year ago, you couldn't touch his head. He is still a bit head shy and will never be the cheeky (in a nice way) chappie that is his real character. We are starting to see glimpses of it though. Yes, he as excellent manners and respects humans, but you can see a mile off that he has been 'pasted'. Owner actually has one instance on video where his previous owner was repeatedly beating him because he did not want to jump a huge trakaner. He ended up rearing and coming over backwards.

OP, I think you have used an unfortunate choice of words in your initial post, when really you mean a well timed smack. No wonder it has people up in arms. Also, what do you think a novice would think reading the first post? When you say "I spoke to the woman who backed him for me, and unfortunately it would appear that the method is old hat and simple... I actually agree with her, just needed to hear it. He needs a pasting." Maybe that it's the done thing?
 
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Sarah1 said:
Totally different IMO and these type of posts that compare horses & children are completely ridiculous.

Maybe if your child was 600kg+, with lightning speed and could basically kill you if she so felt like it :rolleyes:
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Did I compare horses with children, please show me where I did that. I think if you re read it you will find I was talking about the words used.

No need to ridicule me for having an opinion either.
 
FfionWinnie said:
Did I compare horses with children, please show me where I did that. I think if you re read it you will find I was talking about the words used.

No need to ridicule me for having an opinion either.
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That's how it read to me.

And I'm not ridiculing you btw.
 
"I am also to behave like I don't like him for a week or so because at hear he is a wuss and craves 'being liked'."

What does that mean?
 
Tinypony said:
"I am also to behave like I don't like him for a week or so because at hear he is a wuss and craves 'being liked'."

What does that mean?
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I think it means, he's rather a nice chap who enjoys his 'person's' company, and wants to please:confused:

Which is sadly even more unfortunate for him.......:(
 
OP, I haven't read all of the replies but would only offer this, my Welsh cob was a bolshy youngster, biting, barging, jumping around on the lead. Rather than resorting to a pasting I simply put the lead rope over his nose through his head collar (or a chain) and carried a short hard whip, sometimes a cane. One misdemeanour resulted in a short sharp tug and a firm NO, quickly followed by a sharp smack across his chest with the cane. Whilst leading I carried the cane upright to his face in my left hand as a warning that biting was not allowed either. When ready to release him into the field I made him stand until I was ready and rewarded his good behaviour with a pat and a piece of carrot or a few pony nuts. Before long he stopped being a pig and whilst he is still keen and forward he will listen to me and the biting has long stopped.
 
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I think all horses, apart from a very few, need company and want to be "right". A horse kept in isolation will have a particular tendency to crave some sort of bonding with whatever creature it can get into contact with. A horse that has lost a bonded friend possibly even more so. A horse isn't going to understand that a human is being "off" with it because it's upset them. And then, at the end of the week, does that mean returning to hugs and cuddles? Because hugs and cuddles are often what makes horses bargy and invasive of space. (As opposed to it being a situation where the horse doesn't push, but can be approached for "loving").
I know a lot of people will dismiss me as being a bunny hugger, but seriously op, it's your language and that of some other posters that makes me uncomfortable. Many of the words being used here don't apply at all to the simple way that horses relate to the world. They don't rationalise or decide to set out to piss us off, they just respond as horses do. Your horse is just being a horse. Using words like "nasty" and "violent" and other similar, to me that denotes a particular and quite aggressive, tense mindset. I strongly feel that the language we use affects the way we think and act, so I suppose that is what bothers me in all of this.
I know you won't take any notice of this, but maybe some will. Maybe it's worth sometimes stepping back and thinking about why a horse is doing what it's doing, before planning to unleash hell on them. Horses do these things because they are insecure, scared, worried, but very seldom from pure aggression. Maybe the advice given by the person who broke your horse in gives some clues as to how they handled him, maybe the loss of Ebony is a factor, who knows? If horses are handled roughly though, some will react protectively by showing what some people mistake for pure aggression, but the motivation is defensive.
I've been lucky enough to be around some great horsemen and women. They use words like "calm", "consistent", "neutral"... and whatever the horse is doing, they keep the emotion out of their language and their energy level low.
 
I'll leave the horse training thing aside for the moment....

I have a horse who was more or less kept isolated from other horses from age 2-6, which is a crucial stage of equine social development. I bought her as a rising 7-year old to discover that she was a danger to herself and others when turned out in a herd. We gave it a good go for about a year, hoping she would learn the necessary social skills, but her behaviour towards fieldmates never really improved so I sadly concluded individual turn-out was inevitable. The horse is now 19 and has never had a herd ever since her short stint at 7 years old and she never will, and that's a damned shame. For her, and for me as well, since finding yards with suitable turn-out arrangements is a pain in the butt.

The moral of the story: don't deprive your youngsters of the opportunity to develop their equine social skills. They might end up like my horse, a lifetime of isolation.
 
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