Vitamin E supplements recommendations

[saddlesore]

Selenivite E?

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I use the healthy horse one. I use it to top up the VitE in the balancer he’s getting. I think it’s synthetic.

Says 10g gives 5000. I give about 5g daily as his balancer has a decent level of VitE and hes still getting decent grass.

 

[Fieldlife]

I use the healthy horse one. I use it to top up the VitE in the balancer he’s getting. I think it’s synthetic.

Says 10g gives 5000. I give about 5g daily as his balancer has a decent level of VitE and hes still getting decent grass.

Do you mean the Gravenhorse one? It specifically says it’s natural on website.

 

[Tiddlypom]

It's Horseheath not Horsehealth

*Polishes off specs after squinting at low res image on website* - you're right, it's Horseheath ?.

Still comes across as too amateurish a website to be a trusted supplier. They are claiming that natural vit E is 4 x as effective as synthetic, which is plain incorrect, it's 2 x as effective. So what else do they not understand or misrepresent? Remember Equimims, who for years were selling their liquid synthetic vit E as cheap natural vit E until they quietly dropped the 'natural' claim.

 

[ycbm]

*Polishes off specs after squinting at low res image on website* - you're right, it's Horseheath ?.

Still comes across as too amateurish a website to be a trusted supplier. They are claiming that natural vit E is 4 x as effective as synthetic, which is plain incorrect, it's 2 x as effective. So what else do they not understand or misrepresent? Remember Equimims, who for years were selling their liquid synthetic vit E as cheap natural vit E until they quietly dropped the 'natural' claim.

View attachment 105480

The picture also looks nothing like pure vitamin E powder, which is almost white and extremely fine.

Can anyone who uses this send me a tiny bit to compare? I'll pay for it.
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[ycbm]

Selenivite E?

Selenium is very poisonous in excess and it takes only a tiny amount to harm a horse. Vitamin E products with selenium in are not safe to use for a horse which has a higher than normal need for vitamin E.
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[criso]

The picture also looks nothing like pure vitamin E powder, which is almost white and extremely fine.

Can anyone who uses this send me a tiny bit to compare? I'll pay for it.
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Why not contact them and ask for a small sample for a minimal price. They're not very high tech but they sell at shows all around here and are helpful.

Their Facebook page is active and links to their nutrition page which has phone numbers

https://horseheathequinenutrition.com/contact/

 

[ycbm]

Why not contact them and ask for a small sample for a minimal price. They're not very high tech but they sell at shows all around here and are helpful.

Their Facebook page is active and links to their nutrition page which has phone numbers

https://horseheathequinenutrition.com/contact/

I'd rather see what they've actually delivered to a customer, after the Equimins shenanigans.
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[nutjob]

The picture also looks nothing like pure vitamin E powder, which is almost white and extremely fine.

The FP one is only 25% vit E but at least they mention this and state that the carrier which is 75% of the product is silica. This may account for the colour difference if a different carrier is use. However, this company doesn't tell us what else is in the product in addition to vit e and there certainly will be something.

Like you, I would also not buy from a company which uses a box no. as it's address, is not listed with companies house, has no landline, no email address and no info on who is running this operation.

I'd rather just pay the money and use a trusted supplier, after all you cannot get it analysed yourself once you bought it and if the headline quantity is correct you are getting a 10th of the active ingredient. The 4 x thing is just misinformation which is also a clue about what type of people are running this.

 

[criso]

I'd rather see what they've actually delivered to a customer, after the Equimins shenanigans.
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Would that really help? I've bought magox from FP, PE and Intralabs. Each look slightly different and without a chemical analysis, I only have the supplier's word for what it is. And they only have their supplier's word too. No one feeding the Equimins product knew it wasn't natural by looking at it until it came out and Equimins claimed their supplier told them it was natural.

They're not dodgy, they're a small local feed and bedding merchant that blend their own supplements, sell feed and bedding for pick up and delivery and occasionally via a not very good website.

Only thing that puts me off is the £7.50 delivery, more if you want to upgrade from Evri. It's up to 15kg but there's not anything else I need. I don't have transport to pick up directly from SG5 which is a option and their prices on feed aren't as good as current supplier to get a van delivery. I'll probably ask someone to pick me up some come show season from their stand though.

I would ask questions about the difference between the 2 versions though just for clarification.

 

[paddy555]

http://www.gravenhorse.co.uk/SuppliesOlR5.html#txt_109

50,000iu per kilo.

Forage Plus has about c.500,000iu per kilo, working out much cheaper.


ETA the description has 50,000 iu per kg as the headline and lower down says 500,000 iu per kg and says 10g will deliver 5000 iu.

In view of the price I believe the headline figure is correct, the bottom figure is wrong, and the product is stuffed full of fillers. I don't believe anyone can sell 500,000 iu per kg vitamin E at that price.

I would have emailed them to check but there is no email address and their address on the site is a PO box and the phone numbers don't identify where they are either, which also tells me this company may not be reputable.
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there is a link to click on on their site so no doubt you could have queried their product there. There are 3 phone numbers you could ring them, they are in Beds if you read further. They have a nutritionalist ie John Champman whose history is detailed. Both Graven and Horseheath have plenty of info on their sites re nutrition, just as much as many similar ventures. You can use paypal so it if doesn't turn up you can get your money back.

I have no idea if their vit E is good or not or if their price is reasonable. Perhaps other outlets are over charging for theirs, I have no idea. However I think it would be reasonable for people to find out accurate info before discrediting a business on here with having the facts.

(I have no connection to either graven or HH, I have never used either)

 

[criso]

I do understand the worry though. I buy horsey stuff from a couple of sellers on Facebook via PayPal and messaging. However there are items advertised on Facebook which turn out to be scams.

Some are just small scale operations that keep their costs down by not having flash websites, others are crooks.

In this case just happen to know they are not crooks as people I know buy from them regularly, I haven't in the past as when I looked at the pricelist it wasn't amazing and don't go to those particular shows to buy direct.

 

[ycbm]

I'm sorry Paddy I have a big problem believing that they are the only supplier of natural vitamin E for humans and horses, out of hundreds, who can supply it at a price that is a fraction of the norm.

I would want to see their source certification and the expiry date of the bulk purchase before I would buy it.

I won't risk my boy's health buying at a quarter of the normal price.

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[criso]

It's not impossible. I was reading about perfumes and only about 5% of the price is ingredients and the rest is marketing, packaging and profit margins and the costs associated with them.

Supplements won't be as bad but the actual ingredients will only be a part of the price so a small scale operation operating as a side business of a feed merchant may keep costs down enough to undercut the bigger players who invest in a decent website for example.

I also wouldn't be surprised once you check the packaging and the specs and whether there is a filler, you end up having to feed more so the saving isn't as good as first appears though it can sometimes be cheaper to feed more of a less pure product. Alot of people feed calmag rather than high purity magox on this basis.

I might drop them a message asking about the difference between the 2 versions and feeding rates to see what comes back. I was recently looking at a joint supplement. There was a liquid and a powder and the former seemed so much cheaper. However a quick email and the company explained concentrations which clarified.

 

[paddy555]

I'm sorry Paddy I have a big problem believing that they are the only supplier of natural vitamin E for humans and horses, out of hundreds, who can supply it at a price that is a fraction of the norm.

I would want to see their source certification and the expiry date of the bulk purchase before I would buy it.

I won't risk my boy's health buying at a quarter of the normal price.

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then why not either ignore the posts suggesting their product if you have insufficient info to answer correctly or alternatively ring them and ask your questions then you can give accurate info rather than speculation.

 

[paddy555]

Agree, I asked FP this question directly. Disappointing, to say the least, especially as they do not make it clear on their product listing.

. They have clearly with the bioplex copper and zinc, the synthetic vit E seems to have sneaked in under the radar so no one noticed. Very disappointing as you say. I guess people using their balancer will now have to buy some additional vit E as well.

 

[ycbm]

. They have clearly with the bioplex copper and zinc, the synthetic vit E seems to have sneaked in under the radar so no one noticed. Very disappointing as you say. I guess people using their balancer will now have to buy some additional vit E as well.

The balancer contains vitamin E for a normal horse. It's synthetic but it's not really relevant if it supplies the RDA. People with horses needing more than the RDA of vitamin E have always had to add more.
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[Fieldlife]

The balancer contains vitamin E for a normal horse. It's synthetic but it's not really relevant if it supplies the RDA. People with horses needing more than the RDA of vitamin E have always had to add more.
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This is where I get confused. Say you trying to achieve an RDA of 2,000 iU for a normal horse. If a balancer contains 2,000 iU of synthetic vitamin E, my understanding is that will only be 1,000iU of useable form of Vitamin E, so you would need to top up with a further 1,000 iU of natural vitamin E to get a total of 2,000iU of useable vitamin E.

So it does matter which form is in balancers.

 

[ycbm]

then why not either ignore the posts suggesting their product if you have insufficient info to answer correctly or alternatively ring them and ask your questions then you can give accurate info rather than speculation.

If I think the product is likely to be dodgy at that price I'm entitled to say so. It was true of Equimins, it can be true again, especially as the listing is materially inaccurate.
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[Fieldlife]

. They have clearly with the bioplex copper and zinc, the synthetic vit E seems to have sneaked in under the radar so no one noticed. Very disappointing as you say. I guess people using their balancer will now have to buy some additional vit E as well.

That is my understanding as it is only providing half the typical RDA amount as 50% is in a non usable form.

 

[ycbm]

This is where I get confused. Say you trying to achieve an RDA of 2,000 iU for a normal horse. If a balancer contains 2,000 iU of synthetic vitamin E, my understanding is that will only be 1,000iU of useable form of Vitamin E, so you would need to top up with a further 1,000 iU of natural vitamin E to get a total of 2,000iU of useable vitamin E.

So it does matter which form is in balancers.

RDA of vitamin E is 1 or 2 iu per kg of bodyweight, 1000iu tops for a 500kg horse.

 

[Fieldlife]

It's not impossible. I was reading about perfumes and only about 5% of the price is ingredients and the rest is marketing, packaging and profit margins and the costs associated with them.

Supplements won't be as bad but the actual ingredients will only be a part of the price so a small scale operation operating as a side business of a feed merchant may keep costs down enough to undercut the bigger players who invest in a decent website for example.

I also wouldn't be surprised once you check the packaging and the specs and whether there is a filler, you end up having to feed more so the saving isn't as good as first appears though it can sometimes be cheaper to feed more of a less pure product. Alot of people feed calmag rather than high purity magox on this basis.

I might drop them a message asking about the difference between the 2 versions and feeding rates to see what comes back. I was recently looking at a joint supplement. There was a liquid and a powder and the former seemed so much cheaper. However a quick email and the company explained concentrations which clarified.

Please do, I would be very interested to know, to know if they have a purity and natural certificate. If they do, I suspect HHO could put a lot of business their way. I have had past dealings with them, and know friends who have bought their own brand straights recently. I dont think are dodgy. but the specification of the vitamin E - £18.95 for 0.950kg of 500,000iU / kg of natural vitamin E sounds too good to be true,.

 

[Dexter]

If I think the product is likely to be dodgy at that price I'm entitled to say so. It was true of Equimins, it can be true again, especially as the listing is materially inaccurate.
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I used works supplier for lab chemicals to see if I could source it cheaper in bulk via wholesale and it wasn't really feasible, so I'm another one struggling to see how this can be so cheap.

 

[Fieldlife]

RDA of vitamin E is 1 or 2 iu per kg of bodyweight, 1000iu tops for a 500kg horse.

Disagree for a competing horse in winter, with little grass. Forage plus recommend up to 5,000iU for a horse in hard work, and 2,000iU for a standard horse in winter.

 

[paddy555]

Disagree for a competing horse in winter, with little grass. Forage plus recommend up to 5,000iU for a horse in hard work, and 2,000iU for a standard horse in winter.

see that is where I am getting confused as well.
I also don't understand why ycbm thinks 1000iu tops whereas forage plus think 2000iu and then more on top for harder work.

this is what I understand.
We also know the two most common commercial forms of synthetic and natural vitamin E, the acetate adsorbates, differ in their bioavailability by a factor of two. This means you would have to feed double the quantity of synthetic vitamin E to have the same bioavailable uptake as natural vitamin E.

The balancer contains vitamin E for a normal horse. It's synthetic but it's not really relevant if it supplies the RDA. People with horses needing more than the RDA of vitamin E have always had to add more.
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I don't get this. It's synthetic but that's not really relevant you say. If that is the case why not buy synthetic at half the price. Your comment many moons ago about equimins was that as it was synthetic I would have to feed twice as much. (I didn't because in fact I found a liquid product was superior to a powder one but that is a different issue)

So presumably I would also have to with the FP synthetic vit E.

The bags of FP vit say on the synthetic one that 1 scoop = 2000iu
on the natural one that 1 scoop + 2000iu.

if 2000iu is FP's assessment of the RDA (or even 1000iu if we go by YCBM) then both products supply the RDA.

Then we have the last sentence of the highlighted para above. (also from FP)

Like you Fieldlife I am confused,

 

[paddy555]

Please do, I would be very interested to know, to know if they have a purity and natural certificate. If they do, I suspect HHO could put a lot of business their way. I have had past dealings with them, and know friends who have bought their own brand straights recently. I dont think are dodgy. but the specification of the vitamin E - £18.95 for 0.950kg of 500,000iU / kg of natural vitamin E sounds too good to be true,.

I would also be interested in this please. There is nothing from their site which would make me think they were dodgy. I would happily buy from them. The price of other items on there is about normal so they don't come across as a particularly cheap or cut price outfit. I would like a bit more info.

 

[criso]

Please do, I would be very interested to know, to know if they have a purity and natural certificate. If they do, I suspect HHO could put a lot of business their way. I have had past dealings with them, and know friends who have bought their own brand straights recently. I dont think are dodgy. but the specification of the vitamin E - £18.95 for 0.950kg of 500,000iU / kg of natural vitamin E sounds too good to be true,.

Website will probably fall over if we all try and buy. I suspect they are not geared up for a lot of online sales their main business being local and tradestands at shows.


With the Forageplus balancers, if I wanted higher levels, I'd be tempted to buy the summer version and add vitamin e separately.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Do you mean the Gravenhorse one? It specifically says it’s natural on website.

No it’s not that one ? it’s this one

https://gsequestrian.co.uk/products...KWkEtAhEIEcZ92nsI5atzNxqKZwUSYohoCLKQQAvD_BwE

@ycbm this one is very very fine and pure white.

 

[ycbm]

Disagree for a competing horse in winter, with little grass. Forage plus recommend up to 5,000iU for a horse in hard work, and 2,000iU for a standard horse in winter.

If isn't my opinion, it's the official RDA.

Of course some horses need more.

 

[ycbm]

No it’s not that one ? it’s this one

https://gsequestrian.co.uk/products...KWkEtAhEIEcZ92nsI5atzNxqKZwUSYohoCLKQQAvD_BwE

@ycbm this one is very very fine and pure white.

That's a second supplier, then, who is selling markedly cheaper. And this one states 50% vitamin E 50% filler. But if FP is 25% vitamin E 75% filler then there should be twice as many iu in a 5ml scoop and according to those instructions, there's roughly the same. That still leaves it less than half price. This gets more and more confusing!


ETA That is synthetic, because it doesn't say it's natural. So you would need to feed twice as much, so it's still cheaper but not by nearly as much as it looks like and the postage might change things too.
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