Vitamin E supplements recommendations

Gravenhorse said:
There is indeed a global shortage of pure natural d-Alpha-tocopherol. Mixtures with other isomers - e.g. gamma - are available, but not approved for use in animal feeds. I am currently negotiating with a European manufacturer for d-A-T acetate @ 500,000iu/kg For ease of use this would probably be diluted to 200,000iu/kg to retail at about £35/kg + carriage. If sufficient interest is shown I will order a trial batch of 20kg for a test run.
The alternative is to use synthetic dl-A-T at about 3 x the rate for natural E which I can obtain & supply.
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I’m interested in feeding 2,000-5,000 natural vitamin E on a long time basis, on a cost effective basis, as I’d imagine many others are.

I guess synthetic is a fall back option if amount increased so still get right levels of natural vitamin E.
 
Fieldlife said:
I’m interested in feeding 2,000-5,000 natural vitamin E on a long time basis, on a cost effective basis, as I’d imagine many others are.

I guess synthetic is a fall back option if amount increased so still get right levels of natural vitamin E.
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I would be interested too @Gravenhorse

I find if I feed anymore than 2,000 a day, she gets very spooky.
 
arghh... its so confusing.

If I buy Gravenhorse VitaminE50 - how much vitamin E does a 10g scoop provide? and what quantity of vit E would you recommend for a 500kg horse no issues but no access to fresh pasture - light work?
 
planete said:
I am now thoroughly confused, plus the natural vitamin E from FP is not available right now. So, if I buy from PE, how much should I give to equate two scoops of FP please?
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Hormonal Filly said:
Sorry confused, been trying to read all the comments to understand. I feee vitamin E to help with my mares liver.

I currently feed FP, and give one scoop a day which I thought correlated to 2,000IU vitamin E (natural) is that correct?

Is PE, the same feed amount?
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There is no clear answer to that as far as I can see.

The Forageplus and PE state the same concentration but they use different studies to calculate the dosage (2 and 1.36). Neither study was on horses but humans or human and rats. One is a little more recent but 1998 and 1988 so not particularly.

Option 1 Start with the same number of scoops given that both claim to supply the same amount of vitamin E and monitor closely.
Option 2 Start with PE's recommended number of scoops which will be more and maybe try reducing to Forageplus level and monitor closely.
 
mini-eventer said:
arghh... its so confusing.

If I buy Gravenhorse VitaminE50 - how much vitamin E does a 10g scoop provide? and what quantity of vit E would you recommend for a 500kg horse no issues but no access to fresh pasture - light work?
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I would ask them. As it's diluted by limestone flour, the density will not be the same as the powder on silica that FP and PE supply.
 
criso said:
There is no clear answer to that as far as I can see.

The Forageplus and PE state the same concentration but they use different studies to calculate the dosage (2 and 1.36). Neither study was on horses but humans or human and rats. One is a little more recent but 1998 and 1988 so not particularly.

Option 1 Start with the same number of scoops given that both claim to supply the same amount of vitamin E and monitor closely.
Option 2 Start with PE's recommended number of scoops which will be more and maybe try reducing to Forageplus level and monitor closely.
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After all the earlier discussions and calculations I switched to PE which is quite a saving. It is very difficult to see they are anything but the same product. (this is natural)

I suspect that I was underfeeding based on FP calculations as I only fed one scoop. I am now feeding 2 scoops which PE tell me is approx 2000iu. (ie 1000iu per scoop) This is twice the amount I was feeding of the FP product.

It is not easy to monitor in the average horse but I think there may be improvement (which is based very much upon me knowing my horses nothing else to measure it by)

I am trying to feed 2000iu per day and I am happy that I think that is what I am now doing.
 
mini-eventer said:
arghh... its so confusing.

If I buy Gravenhorse VitaminE50 - how much vitamin E does a 10g scoop provide? and what quantity of vit E would you recommend for a 500kg horse no issues but no access to fresh pasture - light work?
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I had a look last night and I think you actually have to feed quite a lot as it’s got alot of filler.

Im thinking of trying the Omega Vitamin E Extra, as although it has selenium in it - I’m only looking to feed because of poor grazing.
 
SpotsandBays said:
I had a look last night and I think you actually have to feed quite a lot as it’s got alot of filler.

Im thinking of trying the Omega Vitamin E Extra, as although it has selenium in it - I’m only looking to feed because of poor grazing.
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Avoid adding selenium if you are already supplementing selenium. Most vitamins and minerals in feed/ balancer / etc contain selenium too. Too much is toxic.

I think the Gravenhorse VitaminE50 is 50,000 iu per Kg so not very pure. I think need to feed 20gms / 1,000 IU you want to add. That may vary a fair bit from a 20ml scoop depending on its actual weight.
 
Fieldlife said:
Avoid adding selenium if you are already supplementing selenium. Most vitamins and minerals in feed/ balancer / etc contain selenium too. Too much is toxic.

I think the Gravenhorse VitaminE50 is 50,000 iu per Kg so not very pure. I think need to feed 20gms / 1,000 IU you want to add. That may vary a fair bit from a 20ml scoop depending on its actual weight.
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Thanks, I don’t add selenium currently
 
Has anyone else noticed Forage Plus vitamin E is now weaker?

My last bag was 5ml = 2000IU..

Bag that’s just been delivered the scoop is twice the size and 10ml = 2000IU 😣
 
Hormonal Filly said:
Has anyone else noticed Forage Plus vitamin E is now weaker?

My last bag was 5ml = 2000IU..

Bag that’s just been delivered the scoop is twice the size and 10ml = 2000IU 😣
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how interesting. I wondered if they would change it. It is not weaker as such just differently described.
If you read the rest of this thread, certainly my comments and Criso I remember commented a lot as well it explains how the strength is calculated.
 
paddy555 said:
how interesting. I wondered if they would change it. It is not weaker as such just differently described.
If you read the rest of this thread, certainly my comments and Criso I remember commented a lot as well it explains how the strength is calculated.
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Thanks Paddy, will have a look. Still means I’m feeding twice as much for 2000IU now?
 
Hormonal Filly said:
Has anyone else noticed Forage Plus vitamin E is now weaker?

My last bag was 5ml = 2000IU..

Bag that’s just been delivered the scoop is twice the size and 10ml = 2000IU 😣
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Is it still natural? That's exactly what would happen if they've swapped to synthetic and are quoting bioavailable vitamin E.
 
Tiddlypom said:
But if you are getting twice the volume in a bag, and need to feed twice the volume to get the same iu as before, then you are not disadvantaged?
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Is that what’s happened? I’ve just noticed scoop is twice the size and it’s saying to feed double as much. Haven’t looked into volume.

Might email them for confirmation.
 
It sounds like they have changed their method of calculation to the same method as used by Progressive Earth. Check the thread back and you'll see there are different ways of calculation for the vitamin E it contains and Forage Plus was using the one which made it look stronger even though PEs powder was identical.

I'm so glad I had Ludo blood tested, it doesn't bear thinking about that I might have put him down when all he needed was more vitamin E.

This thread appears to show that the whole vitamin E thing is a real muddle. I'm glad I no longer have a vitamin E supplement dependent horse, though I do feed it routinely to any horse that doesn't get a lot of grass, especially December to April.
.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Ah, I may have misread your post, I thought that you said that the bag was twice the volume as before.

I was feeding the 'old' Forageplus natural vit E until very recently, but then it was out of stock so I've just started them on Pro Earth natural vit E which I'd stocked up on.
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Seems it’s worth buying PE now.. works out quite a bit cheaper!

PE 5ml = 1000IU
 
ycbm said:
I'm so glad I had Ludo blood tested, it doesn't bear thinking about that I might have put him down when all he needed was more vitamin E
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A friend nearly put down her 28 cushings gelding last year.. turned out he just was vitamin E deficient! She had to ask for it, vet didn’t even consider it!

I’m going to ask my vet to get vitamin levels tested on the next blood test in a couple of months.
 
ycbm said:
It sounds like they have changed their method of calculation to the same method as used by Progressive Earth. Check the thread back and you'll see there are different ways of calculation for the vitamin E it contains and Forage Plus was using the one which made it look stronger even though PEs powder was identical.

I'm so glad I had Ludo blood tested, it doesn't bear thinking about that I might have put him down when all he needed was more vitamin E.

This thread appears to show that the whole vitamin E thing is a real muddle. I'm glad I no longer have a vitamin E supplement dependent horse, though I do feed it routinely to any horse that doesn't get a lot of grass, especially December to April.
.
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I pick up supplementing vitamin E and linseed oil once grass is lessened over winter. Distant memory at the moment.
 
Hormonal Filly said:
Has anyone else noticed Forage Plus vitamin E is now weaker?

My last bag was 5ml = 2000IU..

Bag that’s just been delivered the scoop is twice the size and 10ml = 2000IU 😣
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Is it exactly the same compound? Is the price the same. There have been shortages of vitamin e, maybe they are having to source an alternative.

According to the website, it currently says

Our Natural Vitamin E for horses is sold as powdered 25% vitamin E acetate adsorbate on silica. 1 x 10ml scoop provides a minimum of 2000 iu.


Has anyone got an older packet to see if the only difference in the wording is the scoop size.
 
Forage Plus have said there was a global shortage and they were unable to use their usual supplier.

For anyone needing to buy vitamin E, it means Progressive Earth now works out £7 cheaper per 500g (with postage into account)

Happy to be corrected if I’m wrong.
 
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Looks the same so maybe they've amended the dosage instructions.

I think what came out of the discussion before for me is there is limited research on dosage and absorption for horses. The studies differed and neither were on horses, so if you were feeding x scoops before and it was working, then maybe you don't need to change.
 
criso said:
Looks the same so maybe they've amended the dosage instructions.

I think what came out of the discussion before for me is there is limited research on dosage and absorption for horses. The studies differed and neither were on horses, so if you were feeding x scoops before and it was working, then maybe you don't need to change.
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I was previously feeding FP and working on their dosage. Then moved to PE which I am pretty sure is the same product. Based on PE calc. I think they have done better.
when basically I doubled the dose.
However as you say the studies and calcs. are not very accurate for horses.
 
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