Mike007
Well-Known Member
How very dare you say this says Bob the nota cob."warm" bloods , its an euphomism for what they really are ! Dumb bloods!I am purebred Irish Daft and proud of it!
Warmblood is a grading, not a type
- Thread starter ycbm
- Start date
How very dare you say this says Bob the nota cob."warm" bloods , its an euphomism for what they really are ! Dumb bloods!I am purebred Irish Daft and proud of it!
dominobrown
Well-Known Member
Yeh seems strange... we have british warmbloods, not sport horses.
When you register with scottish sport horse society i think it is a scottish sport horse but dont have the foggiest despite the fact i am breeding one!!!!
My mare is a tb, went to a stallion on the anglo european stud book and was told by the stud owners to register it with scottish sport horses... which would make it a ssh....
If one could be bothered i beleive i could put it forward for grading with other stud books. What a load of faff!
Illusion100
Well-Known Member
Irish Warmblood is the 'proper' coldblood/hotblood cross.
ISH was coined for versatility in the resulting warmblood breeding, as in (Irish) WB x WB = ISH.
ISH's have been about for at least 20+ years.
dominobrown
Well-Known Member
Haha i own an ish currently and have owned a few and pure ids but never owned a wb!
I like an irish horse... they can think for themselves and look after themselves... but can be harder to train because of this!!!
Mike007
Well-Known Member
But they are oh so worth the effort arnt they. Mad as march hares and Brave as lions.Edited to add ,apart from pigeons who are extremely scary and can strip an ID down to a skeleton in under a minnite (or is that pihranahs?)
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dibbin
Well-Known Member
In that case I have found the reason for his incredible daftness...
Luci07
Well-Known Member
Selle Francais...great variety of bloodlines in this stud book. ISH..no longer a straight ID X TB but often has other breeds in the strain. I had a friend who bought an expensive KWPN event mare (mare deserved the price bracket). I said I was sure she had ID in her. My friend disagreed ..checked the passport. Dam sire was King of Diamonds.
I had a very beautiful gray traditional ISH who looked very Iberian. I laughed till a friend (who breeds and is an expert with Irish breeding) said he could be a Kerry gray. Apparently, after DNA tests, they found Iberian blood in some of the lines, dating back to the time of the Spanish Armada!
I had a very beautiful gray traditional ISH who looked very Iberian. I laughed till a friend (who breeds and is an expert with Irish breeding) said he could be a Kerry gray. Apparently, after DNA tests, they found Iberian blood in some of the lines, dating back to the time of the Spanish Armada!
Bernster
Well-Known Member
Interesting this. My ID - people tend to think he's either warmblood or Spanish, as he's quite light for a full ID and maybe has flashier paces.
applecart14
Well-Known Member
I had an ISH in 1998. He was out of a horse called Senang Haiti who was a three times champion hurdler. I do not know what criteria makes a horse become an 'ISH' unless is goes through a futurity type of system like they have in place now.
Lanky Loll
Well-Known Member
Great thread, I upset someone the other day by commenting that her (lovely) horse was very like my French TB, and got told off that hers was a Warmblood, when I replied that a lot of WBs were a large % TB I basically got told that I know nothing - ho hum.
We've got one on the yard, German bred, got all the right papers but if you go back through his lines he's over 50% TB - and he's a big lump of a thing so the rest is probably pulling a cart somewhere
My TB is an interesting one - because she's French she's a "pur sang" but if you go back through her breeding her grandam is listed as "anglo arab complement". It does explain her tail waving though
We've got one on the yard, German bred, got all the right papers but if you go back through his lines he's over 50% TB - and he's a big lump of a thing so the rest is probably pulling a cart somewhere
My TB is an interesting one - because she's French she's a "pur sang" but if you go back through her breeding her grandam is listed as "anglo arab complement". It does explain her tail waving though
dibbin
Well-Known Member
It does explain her tail waving though
My gelding does tail waving (as in straight up like a flag), as far as I can tell he only has TB and ID blood in him. I think he might just be a ridiculous creature.
applecart14
Well-Known Member
There is too much snobbery about WB and non warmblood horses. I once put 'Happy 10th Birthday Bailey' on the notice board at the yard. Someone who owned a cob commented "huh my horse isn't posh enough to have a birthday!".
I was also told by the same guy that his horse was never in the ribbons because it was 'just a cob' and 'not as flashy as a WB'.
Such a shame, a horse, is a horse, is a horse to me. I love them all the same. I wouldn't buy a cob, but that is not because i don't think they are as good as a WB, just that its not my type of horse, but I have nothing against them!
There is a famous saying 'handsome is as handsome does'. To me that interprets as 'you may be handsome, but it doesn't mean you are better than the next person'. My Bailey looks the part but there are plenty of cobs that have beaten him in the past!
I was also told by the same guy that his horse was never in the ribbons because it was 'just a cob' and 'not as flashy as a WB'.
Such a shame, a horse, is a horse, is a horse to me. I love them all the same. I wouldn't buy a cob, but that is not because i don't think they are as good as a WB, just that its not my type of horse, but I have nothing against them!
There is a famous saying 'handsome is as handsome does'. To me that interprets as 'you may be handsome, but it doesn't mean you are better than the next person'. My Bailey looks the part but there are plenty of cobs that have beaten him in the past!
popsdosh
Well-Known Member
An irish sports horse is bred from approved stallions out of registered mares in Ireland .they dont go through any system.
Senang hati stood in this country very successfully at louella stud for many seasons before going to Ireland.
By the way he did not win the champion hurdle even once let alone 3 times as he only raced on the flat!
Shoei
Well-Known Member
I keep seeing posts referring to warmblood horses as if they are a type. In fact, warmbloods can be of any type at all, from lightweight TB to full draft. They are graded as warmblood if they move well and are put together well. They don't even have to be from the region they are graded by. A Hanoverian, for example, might hold a Westfalian passport, and anything at all might hold a KWPN (Dutch) passport because it's a very sought after grading due to its very high standards.
There's absolutely no point in writing questions like 'My horse is a warmblood, what shall I feed it?' or saying 'my farrier shoes all warmbloods with double clip front shoes'.
Even in the early days of continental warmbloods, all it meant was a cold blood (draft) crossed with a hot blood (TB/Arab), so all IDxTB were warmbloods in everything but name.
Gone are the days from thirty years ago when a warmblood was a middleweight to heavy middleweight with a flat pelvis, that stood out like a sore thumb in a dressage warm-up arena.
So, if you want advice about your warmblood, can you please tell us what type of horse it is? Thanks
Mines got a KWPN passport... he is supposed to be a Gelderlander but I'm sure he's a llama!!!!!
Pigeon
Well-Known Member
I think they have a type, to an extent. I know I can look at a group of sporthorses and easily pick out a modern warmblood from ISHs and TBxs. You definitely see certain recurring traits, even in secondary things like the face and ears. I've also never seen a wb I could mistake for a tb, but then I spend too long looking at thoroughbreds
Some people argue that a warmblood is just a hotblood crossed with a coldblood, but I think that's simplistic. It was a word used in a specific place at a specific time (in this case continental Europe nearly a century ago) to describe a huge and carefully thought out programme to breed equine athletes. Using that term for a horse that doesn't come from those decades of concerted effort is a bit of a push. "Warmblood" does imply that it's registered with a recognised society, which ensures quality. But then again, you have things like the American Warmblood Society, and it seems any old thing can get an AWS passport. Basically it's a point of contention, but I would feel pretentious calling any old hotblood/coldblood mix a warmblood. If it's athletic, call it a sporthorse, as is traditional here, and if not, just a tbx or arabx.
Some people argue that a warmblood is just a hotblood crossed with a coldblood, but I think that's simplistic. It was a word used in a specific place at a specific time (in this case continental Europe nearly a century ago) to describe a huge and carefully thought out programme to breed equine athletes. Using that term for a horse that doesn't come from those decades of concerted effort is a bit of a push. "Warmblood" does imply that it's registered with a recognised society, which ensures quality. But then again, you have things like the American Warmblood Society, and it seems any old thing can get an AWS passport. Basically it's a point of contention, but I would feel pretentious calling any old hotblood/coldblood mix a warmblood. If it's athletic, call it a sporthorse, as is traditional here, and if not, just a tbx or arabx.
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ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Of course they do. They go through the system which is in place for them to become approved stallions and registered mares, just like the continental warmbloods do.
Pigeon
Well-Known Member
You can get a white ISHS passport for a horse with unknown parentage! And they don't have to be approved to have the passport issued, so in theory you can get a horse registered as an ISH without going through any system.
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Meowy Catkin
Meow!
I would argue that if it is an arab x or a TB x, then that's what it should be called, regardless of athleticism. It's also quite a challenge to find examples of those crosses, especially when they are high % ones, that lack athleticism. 'Sportshorse' is such a vague term, it doesn't really mean much (I guess 'warmblood' is also vague hence this thread), whereas TB x and Arab x are at least partially informative. Obviously if the horse is arab x tb, then the term anglo-arab is 100% informative. I can't imagine calling my anglo a 'sportshorse' even though she fits the meaning along with every other dobbin that is capable of competing.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Well...... not quite. You can get a passport from them as a PIA which shows the parentage is not known and therefore does not say that the horse is an ISH any more than my hunter's BSJA passport showed that he was a showjumper.
There is a big difference between being a registered ISH and holding an ISH passport with parentage unknown.
popsdosh
Well-Known Member
There is no performance system for ISH like european warmbloods have to be performance tested .Any registered mare producing a foal by an approved stallion can have its foal registered ISH it does not have to undergo any inspection although there is a mare grading system in place. The mare does not have to be graded to get a breeding passport merely have 3 generations in pedigree and DNA tested.
I very clearly stated that stallions have to be approved or did you miss that bit . Your questioning gets very predictable and boring
If that had been said by anybody else you would not have questioned it.
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ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I would argue that if it is an arab x or a TB x, then that's what it should be called, regardless of athleticism. It's also quite a challenge to find examples of those crosses, especially when they are high % ones, that lack athleticism. 'Sportshorse' is such a vague term, it doesn't really mean much (I guess 'warmblood' is also vague hence this thread), whereas TB x and Arab x are at least partially informative. Obviously if the horse is arab x tb, then the term anglo-arab is 100% informative. I can't imagine calling my anglo a 'sportshorse' even though she fits the meaning along with every other dobbin that is capable of competing.
Absolutely agree. Sportshorse is a meaningless marketing term. At least warmblood means coldblood x hotblood. Sportshorse is impossible to define, imo.
popsdosh
Well-Known Member
Your talking c**p or have you googled somrthing I havent learnt in 40 yrs breeding horses.
A registered ISH just needs 3 generations of parentage and DNA nothing else
If your going to pontificate at least get your facts right in the first place
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Pigeon
Well-Known Member
Faracat I know!! When I was last looking I was desperate for quite a specific native x, but people always seemed reluctant to describe their horse that way I think whatever is winning, people want to call their horses that. So a few years ago when the Irish were doing so well it was Irish Sport Horse, which has kind of lost all meaning these days, and now it's Warmblood. Which is headed the same way. I guess the actual warmbloods are now described by their society, rather than putting 'warmblood' in the breed section.
As an aside, never seen a bad Anglo-Arab. I don't understand why there aren't more about!
I think whatever is winning, people want to call their horses that. So a few years ago when the Irish were doing so well it was Irish Sport Horse, which has kind of lost all meaning these days, and now it's Warmblood. Which is headed the same way. I guess the actual warmbloods are now described by their society, rather than putting 'warmblood' in the breed section. As an aside, never seen a bad Anglo-Arab. I don't understand why there aren't more about!
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Pigeon
Well-Known Member
Warmblood doesn't mean hotblood x coldblood! It's a stand-alone word. It's just been translated that way...
applecart14
Well-Known Member
This is the information I was told when I bought him at the time from ex conservative MP Nicholas Budgen, in Lichfield somewhere so I had no reason to doubt him. His Sire was Senang Hati who stood at 17hh and his Dam Brindley Ford (ex hunter from Leicestershire), so Mikki (as I named him) was passported/papered as Senang Ford - he stood at 16.3hh, bright bay. This is the information showing on Senange Hati's record.http://www.sporthorsegb.co.uk/horse.aspx?id=S10227
AS A THREE YEAR OLD STARTED THIRTEEN TIMES WON THREE (CHARTENHALL JUVENILE NOVICES HURDLE 2M AT KELSO; GILLE BROTHERS NOVICES HURDLE 2m AT PERTH; CAPRINGTON NOVICES HURDLE 2m AT AYR) PLACED TWICE
Mikki hated showjumping and he hated dressage and was a very lazy horse. But show him a XC course and he came alive, he was amazing XC, guess it was in his blood to gallop!
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ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
There is no performance system for ISH like european warmbloods have to be performance tested .Any registered mare producing a foal by an approved stallion can have its foal registered ISH it does not have to undergo any inspection although there is a mare grading system in place. The mare does not have to be graded to get a breeding passport merely have 3 generations in pedigree and DNA tested.
I very clearly stated that stallions have to be approved or did you miss that bit . Your questioning gets very predictable and boring
Well I agree the system isn't as tight, which is why the quality is not as consistent either.
Though there are plenty of pretty ordinary continental warmbloods imported into this country. The biggest one-legged dish I ever saw was on one I was offered a few years back for only seven grand!
PS don't flatter yourself popsdosh, I never realised it was you until you pointed it out
popsdosh
Well-Known Member
Well I agree the system isn't as tight, which is why the quality is not as consistent either.
Though there are plenty of pretty ordinary continental warmbloods imported into this country. The biggest one-legged dish I ever saw was on one I was offered a few years back for only seven grand!
PS don't flatter yourself popsdosh, I never realised it was you until you pointed it out
yeh sure!!!!
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
Pigeon, I agree, people selling Connemaras x TBs should shout it from the rooftops IMO, it's such a fabulous cross.
I also agree RE your comment about anglos. This is my second (both 50/50 arab/TB) and it's a wonderful cross.
I also agree RE your comment about anglos. This is my second (both 50/50 arab/TB) and it's a wonderful cross.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I love how we now have name dropping on this thread.
I still maintain that the differences seen in different types of warmblood (is it the germans or the dutch that split them into different types/names for driving/dressage/jumping) aren't really that much different to each other than arabs bred for different purposes/welshies bred for different purposes/TBs bred for different purposes.
I still maintain that the differences seen in different types of warmblood (is it the germans or the dutch that split them into different types/names for driving/dressage/jumping) aren't really that much different to each other than arabs bred for different purposes/welshies bred for different purposes/TBs bred for different purposes.
Tnavas
Well-Known Member
Yes it most certainly does. The term was used because the cold blood working horse was crossed with a TB or Arabian to produce an Army remount.
That is your origin of the warm blood. The modern war blood is not like the original ones, it has so much TB in it now making it totally unsuitable to take a soldier into battle.
First cross war blood, sire TB dam pure Clydesdale
