Watchdog!

[digitalangel]

david

i want to know how you comply with defra horse passport legislation that says you must transfer the passport into your name within 30 days after buying a horse?

 

[The wife]

^ that is an excellent question ^

 

[crabbymare]

I don't know the dealer in question. I haven't purchased a horse from them or know anyone who has.

All I can say is that this particular dealer is presenting himself very well, both in the way he conducted himself on WD and in his response to various questions on this thread.

There are some horrific dealers in this country (I'm not saying this particular dealer is or isn't one of those) BUT what really annoys me - is that what could have been an outstanding watchdog exposure, has been turned into a complete and utter face through some very shoddy reporting.

Ditto the above. I have never bought from this dealer but in the past I bought 2 horses from one who has previously been slated in a big way on here and they were both exactly as described. however I knew what I wanted for one and I knew what my client wanted and could handle for the other and looked at appropriate horses. having seen the watchdog program it could have been aimed at any seller be it dealer or private person as you only need to go through the threads on here to see the amount of new horse turning into a monster ones that have been posted. some people also need to get real with the prices they pay as you are not likely to get a paragon of virtue for peanuts since they do have a higher value than the average horse that goes through a sale or gets sold to a dealer. yes the market is down at the moment but a safe horse does have increased value over one that has an if or a but somewhere

 

[saalsk]

You get what you pay for- same as in any other buyer/seller industry. If you pay pennies for burgers, you cant expect them to be 100% minced sirloin. Sometimes that will come back and cause problems - as we have seen with horse meat in the food chain - but there will always be people buying from that end of the market.

I don't have a problem with dealers - I have brought horses from them in the past - both dealers have now been mentioned on H+H in some way or other, but I accepted that paying what I did, for a horse from a dealer, was a risk, and one I was prepared to take. I was careful, took a knowledgeable friend with me, and didn't over-estimate my own abilities.

If one of the posters had started a thread on here about how the " 4 year old horse I brought for my child seems unsuitable" would have had the full wrath of the forum fall on them for making such a decision in the first place. Any adult buying a horse from a dealer needs to take some responsibility for their actions.

 

[BSJAlove]

We came to see a coloured mare called harriet. Her hooves were in an awful state and she was covered in sores. You told us she had just arrived... That day, however she was so quiet and sad. We asked for you to send us a video of Harriet walking and trotting once her feet were done (supposedly the next day) we didn't hear from you so we called. You had sold her. What happened to her? She's been stuck in our minds ever since, poor girly

 

[Queenbee]

Interesting development: This will all be backed up the affidavit statement for all relevant parties for those who are suggesting Im making all this up.

Just spoke at length to the riding school who sold us Queenie. This is the one Watchdog claimed we sold with a broken leg. The riding school have just confirmed they had been using the horse the day before they sold it to us and had used the horse extensively for a long period of time prior to that. They will also confirm as experienced horse people that Queenie was sold sound and had never shown any lameness with them. They will also confirm we paid £800.

To add I have asked a equine vet to look at the watchdog footage to see if he can spot anything.

Are you really as stupid as you come across... Just because she was sound with them doesn't mean she didn't get injured and lame at yours! A sworn statement from the riding school only shows that they believed she had no issues when she was sold to you... It is completely irrelevant to what happened anytime after she became your horse.

I could sell my boy to a dealer tomorrow, the dealer could turn him out, he could slip in the field, wreck his leg, go lame, become completely unfit for jumping in the future and the dealer could sell him as sound and suitable for a jumping career. I would still be able to swear an affidavit that he was sound and fit for purpose when he left me...

What is relevant is what she was like when she left you and what her condition was... The only thing that the affidavit provides evidence for is that the injury happened in your care, the statement just exonerates the riding school from wrong doing not your business.

 

[Queenbee]

For all those saying David is coming across well, sorry David I personally don't, yes you are articulating yourself, but you are dodging significant questions, slagging off the bbc when you yourself admit your practices leave a lot to be desired, making excuses that simply don't wash, naming names, and admitting that in all the strings of businesses you've owned you haven't once improved your practices.

Horse and hound are letting this thread run because obviously its very topical and will make the top threads and therefore the magazine... Very clever, the fact that this thread has already breached a number of their terms and conditions seems to have been mainly ignored by them, other threads of this nature that didn't have such a link to high media coverage would be pulled long before now.

I suppose the bottom line is whether anyone on here would consider buying from Kellys Cobs? I know I never would.

 

[Queenbee]

I'd be interested to know if its you David who is posting on behalf of KC ont support of KEllys Cobs Facebook group or is that someone else?

 

[Twinkley Lights]

For all those saying David is coming across well, sorry David I personally don't, yes you are articulating yourself, but you are dodging significant questions, slagging off the bbc when you yourself admit your practices leave a lot to be desired, making excuses that simply don't wash, naming names, and admitting that in all the strings of businesses you've owned you haven't once improved your practices.

Horse and hound are letting this thread run because obviously its very topical and will make the top threads and therefore the magazine... Very clever, the fact that this thread has already breached a number of their terms and conditions seems to have been mainly ignored by them, other threads of this nature that didn't have such a link to high media coverage would be pulled long before now.

I suppose the bottom line is whether anyone on here would consider buying from Kellys Cobs? I know I never would.

This ^^^ although they always weed out the controversial top threads

 

[Twinkley Lights]

Interesting your comments Queenbee on other threads getting pulled but not this one , the how much is my ex racer worth, one just lasted less than 10 minutes

 

[Suzie13]

I'd prefer not to name names but I do know Dagmar personally, and have done so for a number of years.

So David, now I've named names you seem to be ignoring me. What response do you have?

Plus, as I remember this isn't the first time you've been on Watchdog....

 

[Needalayin]

I'm sorry but I had to go anonymous for this one even though I'm a regular member

I know quite a few that have sold to kellys cobs & let's just say he's not called dodgy Dave around there for no reason.

It's boiling my blood reading his replies on here when I know a few people who have sold to him. Rightly or wrongly (I know I could never do it) If you have a knacker or a dangerous horse, ring Dave & he'll take it off your hands, most of the time without even looking. it will then be on the website the next day at a lovely profit & with a load of tosh for an advert.

I don't know anyone who has bought from him or know him personally but I do know of his reputation around that area from those that know how to get rid of an unsellable horse.

People that are buying his replies, need to be warned.

Call me a troll, I don't mind. I certainly know I'm not & people in that area that know KC's will know that I'm right too.

 

[TrasaM]

Needalayin that Neededsaying

 

[Queenbee]

So David, now I've named names you seem to be ignoring me. What response do you have?

Plus, as I remember this isn't the first time you've been on Watchdog....

It's not the second time he's been on watchdog either

 

[Janeuk1]

In response to an earlier message directed at me from David - I think saying I was bullied by the BBc is taking what I said way out of context. I was talked in to it yes, bullied - definitely not. I found the team really nice to be honest. I didn't want to be involved simply because I'm quite a shy person and being on tv wasn't something I found very appealing! It wasn't because I didn't think you deserved to be called a rogue trader!
I'm not getting in to any more debates about my case but thought I should clarify the bullying reference.

 

[Queenbee]

In response to an earlier message directed at me from David - I think saying I was bullied by the BBc is taking what I said way out of context. I was talked in to it yes, bullied - definitely not. I found the team really nice to be honest. I didn't want to be involved simply because I'm quite a shy person and being on tv wasn't something I found very appealing! It wasn't because I didn't think you deserved to be called a rogue trader!
I'm not getting in to any more debates about my case but thought I should clarify the bullying reference.

For what it's worth... I am glad you did agree to do it, I also would like to say that you came across really well... Unlike David I hope you have now found suitable horses by the way x

 

[Well I Never]

@kellys cobs-i wouldn't even be replying to someone who doesn't own Woody purchased from you, they are just passing on what they don't know!

 

[micki]

I've been watching this thread for the past couple of days and read David's (Kelly's Cobs) responses with interest.
Id now like to add my 'experience' to the forum as well, as my daughter was put in danger on one of the horses tried there.
We went looking for a horse suitable for an adult complete beginner so needed something anyone could ride, was safe, sensible and not likely to buck/rear/bolt etc and were shown a few considered suitable. We asked to try 3 and pointed out that my confident, competent 13 year old, who competes ridden showing and workers at local and county level would be riding to see how she felt on board before said beginner got on board. Now I would have thought that if any of these horses wasn't suitable for a complete beginner I would have then been told sorry but your 13 years old isn't going to be able to ride it.
How wrong I was! I stood horrified as one said 'suitable for a complete beginner' proceeded to take off across the makeshift school, straight through the fence and took off full pelt towards the stables with my daughter trying her hardest to pull up and then on getting no response trying to one rein stop or at least circle to slow it down and hopefully stop, only to to find there was no way was this horse giving up until it was back at the stables. I praised God that day she is well balanced and quick thinking, otherwise there could have been a nasty accident ensued there.

I have read all the thread and yes he does come over as not that bad, after all there are plenty of bad dealers out there. He has answered alot of the questions but he hasn't replied to this one, i know it's not a question but he should still reply to it. I would be very happy to hear his answer to it.
As for vetting a horse i have owned 5 horses over the 27 years i have had them and never had one vetted. I could just be lucky i guess. I also made sure i had another pair of experienced eyes with me in case i missed anything and they spotted it and i have always gone by gut feeling.
4 year olds can be very good quiet horses but you have to know what you are looking at and they are few and far between. I bought a 3 year old to bring my daughter off the lead rein. I was looking for something 14-18 years old but found the pony i bought who has been a saint. I also own a pretty bombproof 4 year old cob, none of who were bought through a dealer, all private sales, except the bombroof cob that i bought from a gypsy as a 2 year old.

 

[KellysCobs]

In response to an earlier message directed at me from David - I think saying I was bullied by the BBc is taking what I said way out of context. I was talked in to it yes, bullied - definitely not. I found the team really nice to be honest. I didn't want to be involved simply because I'm quite a shy person and being on tv wasn't something I found very appealing! It wasn't because I didn't think you deserved to be called a rogue trader!
I'm not getting in to any more debates about my case but thought I should clarify the bullying reference.

Hi Jane apologies if your words were taken out of context. I also do understand you not wishing to contribute further in this debate, but could I ask you to clarify just a few more points first then ill take my punishment and leave you in peace.

Do you agree we made two payments (refunds to you)? Was the second refund where I refunded you the admin fee that was deducted from the first refund.

Regards

David

 

[KellysCobs]

I have read all the thread and yes he does come over as not that bad, after all there are plenty of bad dealers out there. He has answered alot of the questions but he hasn't replied to this one, i know it's not a question but he should still reply to it. I would be very happy to hear his answer to it.
As for vetting a horse i have owned 5 horses over the 27 years i have had them and never had one vetted. I could just be lucky i guess. I also made sure i had another pair of experienced eyes with me in case i missed anything and they spotted it and i have always gone by gut feeling.
4 year olds can be very good quiet horses but you have to know what you are looking at and they are few and far between. I bought a 3 year old to bring my daughter off the lead rein. I was looking for something 14-18 years old but found the pony i bought who has been a saint. I also own a pretty bombproof 4 year old cob, none of who were bought through a dealer, all private sales, except the bombroof cob that i bought from a gypsy as a 2 year old.

Hi Micki

In answer, I don't remember this incident but do accept this can happen and over the years as live animals even the most so called Bombproof horse (I never use that term) can have its off day. We always ride any horse first and when invite the customer to ride. Its then there decision, this is not passing the buck or not accepting responsibility. Horses are live unpredictable animals.

Sorry to those who are also waiting for questions to be answered and I do intend to answer all unless its just a personal attack on me. I have answered already all questions on the topic of my post in earlier post so don't intend to continently repeat myself. If you read my past posts Im sure you will see this.

Regards

David

 

[KellysCobs]

@kellys cobs-i wouldn't even be replying to someone who doesn't own Woody purchased from you, they are just passing on what they don't know!

Hi I do agree with your point and there has been loads of " a friend told me, I heard you had" etc but if there raise a good point I am happy to answer regardless if they can substantiate it or not. If if just a case of my friend knows for a fact you were the second gunman in the President Kennedy shooting I will ignore them.

Regards

David

 

[KellysCobs]

I'm sorry but I had to go anonymous for this one even though I'm a regular member

I know quite a few that have sold to kellys cobs & let's just say he's not called dodgy Dave around there for no reason.

It's boiling my blood reading his replies on here when I know a few people who have sold to him. Rightly or wrongly (I know I could never do it) If you have a knacker or a dangerous horse, ring Dave & he'll take it off your hands, most of the time without even looking. it will then be on the website the next day at a lovely profit & with a load of tosh for an advert.

I don't know anyone who has bought from him or know him personally but I do know of his reputation around that area from those that know how to get rid of an unsellable horse.

People that are buying his replies, need to be warned.

Call me a troll, I don't mind. I certainly know I'm not & people in that area that know KC's will know that I'm right too.

Could you kindly name these horses ?

Regards

David

 

[KellysCobs]

So David, now I've named names you seem to be ignoring me. What response do you have?

Plus, as I remember this isn't the first time you've been on Watchdog....

Sorry Susie, I forgotten your question. I do seem to remember you mentioning knowing Dagmar personally. Well so do I and I will ask you a question. Do you feel she deserved the public hanging she also got?

Regards

David

 

[Janeuk1]

Hi Jane apologies if your words were taken out of context. I also do understand you not wishing to contribute further in this debate, but could I ask you to clarify just a few more points first then ill take my punishment and leave you in peace.

Do you agree we made two payments (refunds to you)? Was the second refund where I refunded you the admin fee that was deducted from the first refund.

Regards

David

No David - I have NEVER been refunded the admin fee. The second payment was the refund of the money that you had kept hold of, with no explanation. You went on to offer to pay me back the remaining money if I wrote a letter saying I accepted it as full and final payment and would not go on to make any further claims against you. I refused to do this and eventually when I started talking about Horse imports and puppy paradise, I recieved a text saying the money had been paid in to my account. There was no correspondence following that.

I am pretty sure I explained this in an email when you asked me for clarification after you were made aware of the watchdog investigation.

 

[KellysCobs]

david

i want to know how you comply with defra horse passport legislation that says you must transfer the passport into your name within 30 days after buying a horse?

As far as Im aware we do comply but if youve a specific reason for asking me that please do and ill answer you. BTW some may remember I was convicted of selling a horse without a passport and it was very well documented in all the horsey magazines. Can anyone find anything in same mags saying on appeal this conviction.

Regards

David

 

[weebarney]

As far as Im aware we do comply but if youve a specific reason for asking me that please do and ill answer you. BTW some may remember I was convicted of selling a horse without a passport and it was very well documented in all the horsey magazines. Can anyone find anything in same mags saying on appeal this conviction.

Regards

David

Did you win the appeal?

 

[lastchancer]

I must admit that having sold youngsters that I have started, it is absolutely terrifying how many parents with 'very experienced and capable' kids turn up, who then prove to be rank novices.....
I wouldn't sell any horse at all as suitable for a complete novice, so much potential to go wrong.

 

[Suzie13]

Sorry Susie, I forgotten your question. I do seem to remember you mentioning knowing Dagmar personally. Well so do I and I will ask you a question. Do you feel she deserved the public hanging she also got?

Regards

David

Actually yes. The practices you both used to sell horses were undeniably wrong, unethical and dangerous.

At least Dagmar has had the good sense to get out of dealing horses, albeit not entirely through choice but because as soon as anyone realised who she was they wouldn't touch her horses with a bargepole. Unfortunately you do not seem to have had the same good sense, instead using other fronts so that buyers do not realise who they are dealing with.

So now, can you deny that you sold horses with fake passports, passports that were for other animals, lame and definitely not fit for purpose?

I'm afraid from what I've been told and seen the passports for your horses mean less than the paper they're written on.

 

[LovesCobs]

kellyscobs
I personally would not accept a pre-vetted horse by you or any other dealer, how am I to know that a horse pre vetted had then not been put on any form of sedative to make it calmer and more appropriate for a beginner than it actually was? that may help with long term lameness (but running the bloods is very expensive which puts people off) but it would not help with a buyer knowing if a horse had any form of drug to make it 'suitable' in character,I would also not trust that the paperwork had not been falsified (by any dealer) and I would want to be present at a vetting and chose the vet, any time I haven't been it turned out to be a disaster.
i'm not at all convinced about Kellys cobs (who I haven't used)
I have however been stung by a dealer who I thought had a good reputation, had the horse vetted but ended up with a very very green horse that has had to be completely re-backed by a professional. I paid the price of a horse that was steady and suitable for a beginner (as I had friends who were beginners and I did not have the time to bring on a horse as well as manage the others we have) I therefore was prepared to pay the extra price.
this dealer did not refund even with all threats and legal letters; and trading standards are rubbish. I could easily win in court but what for? no money would come my way. a change in home or ownership did not cause this it was far too extreme, no swap was agreed to, the horse windsucks which was noticed from the second day and I could go on!
I believe the lady who had to fight and go through what she did to get her money back, I'm glad she did eventually as many of us don't ever see a penny. good on you and I'm glad you agreed to go on watchdog (however good or bad the report was overall).
I think someone on this thread said something about kellys cobs terms and conditions changing? if you need to find previous webpages you can, they never disappear, they are logged and can be searched by date. I did this to check changes to a website.

 

[KellysCobs]

Did you win the appeal?

Sorry never finished the post. Yes I won the appeal and of course this is on public record for anyone to check. My point is this, the same people/forums/mags etc who documented my conviction never printed on word of my innocence. Not that I expected them too.

Update: You will recall in a earlier post me requesting copies of vet reposts/xrays etc from Watchdog and being totally ignored, well we have just had a fantastic meeting with trading standards and they kindly pointed out that the BBC as a public organisation are governed by the freedom of information act they suggest I try this approach in order to get them to release the vettings