Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[ROG]

I’ve followed, contributed, searched and referenced this thread over the years and I just thought I’d pop by today to say WOOOHOOO as I’ve just passed my test today with 2 minors.

 

[Fourtoomany]

Thanks ����

 

[Lolabug]

Hello ROG


I have already got a trailer, however my dad is now changing his car, meaning I need to get a new car which can double up to pull my 15.2hh mare weighing 540kg on average. Can you help which car would not only be better to tow but also legal.

I am aware I will have to down plate the trailer.

LICENCE
B or B+E = B

VEHICLE Ford Kuga 2.0 TDCI (looking to buy)
Kerb = 1613KG
GVW = 2130KG
Towing capacity = 2100KG
GTW = ?

TRAILER ifor 505
Unladen = 905kg
MAM = 2340kg

Many Thanks

 

[ROG]

Hello ROG


I have already got a trailer, however my dad is now changing his car, meaning I need to get a new car which can double up to pull my 15.2hh mare weighing 540kg on average. Can you help which car would not only be better to tow but also legal.

I am aware I will have to down plate the trailer.

LICENCE
B or B+E = B

VEHICLE Ford Kuga 2.0 TDCI (looking to buy)
Kerb = 1613KG
GVW = 2130KG
Towing capacity = 2100KG
GTW = ?

TRAILER ifor 505
Unladen = 905kg
MAM = 2340kg

Many Thanks

B licence rules so max 3500 limit on the total of the plated weights

Car 2130 + trailer 2340 = 4470 so over the 3500 limit

No solution using this trailer - you need a lighter trailer

 

[Lolabug]

Thanks ROG if I got the car but got my dad to drive as he has B+E licence can the Kuga legally tow that trailer?

Could I also not get the trailer downplated or would that still not work?

Thanks

 

[ROG]

Thanks ROG if I got the car but got my dad to drive as he has B+E licence can the Kuga legally tow that trailer?

Could I also not get the trailer downplated or would that still not work?

Thanks

Down plating will not work because it would need to be 1370 which means with an empty weight of 905 will only leave 465 for the load and your horse is 540

YOU drive it with DAD in passenger seat ......

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.

All B licence holders have B+E provisional on their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.

The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving

 

[tallyho!]

I’ve followed, contributed, searched and referenced this thread over the years and I just thought I’d pop by today to say WOOOHOOO as I’ve just passed my test today with 2 minors.

No it wasn’t cheap, and you get out what you put in...but no more worrying or grey areas for me as it’s now all legal. Thank goodness! Definitely worth doing it, as trying to work it all “legally” is just so limiting. Go for it!

Fabulous! Well done you - isn't it a great feeling?! Woohhooo indeed welcome to the club.

 

[Fourtoomany]

Thank you! It absolutely is the best feeling in the world...just as a euphoric sense of freedom as when I passed my driving test. I really would reccomend it to anyone who is in any doubt about the legalities of their combinations. Just bite the bullet and do it!

 

[christie]

Hello ROG

I'm looking for advice. I am looking to co-own a HB511 trailer (1,000kg). I will only be taking my one horse (16.1hh so approve 600 - 650kg?). Together the weight is between 1,600 and 1,700.

I currently have a RR Evoque which initially I though I'd add a tow bar as it pulls 1,900 but the weight of the car is approx 1,650 and I've been reading that you shouldn't pull a trailer that is more than 85% weight of the vehicle. I'm now confused!

I was also looking at swapping it for a Skoda Yeti DSG (tows 2,100kg but only weighs 1,550kg).

Would either of the cars be able to tow the required amount? Or do I need to move up in size to something like a Hyundai Santa Fe?

Thanks in advance Rog.

A very confused Christie...

 

[ROG]

Hello ROG

I'm looking for advice. I am looking to co-own a HB511 trailer (1,000kg). I will only be taking my one horse (16.1hh so approve 600 - 650kg?). Together the weight is between 1,600 and 1,700.

I currently have a RR Evoque which initially I though I'd add a tow bar as it pulls 1,900 but the weight of the car is approx 1,650 and I've been reading that you shouldn't pull a trailer that is more than 85% weight of the vehicle. I'm now confused!

I was also looking at swapping it for a Skoda Yeti DSG (tows 2,100kg but only weighs 1,550kg).

Would either of the cars be able to tow the required amount? Or do I need to move up in size to something like a Hyundai Santa Fe?

Thanks in advance Rog.

A very confused Christie...

85% advice is for caravans only

Where possible it is better to have the actual weight of the towing vehicle heavier than the trailer but many modern vehicles are designed to safely tow more than their actual weight

Your vehicle is going to be heavier than 1650 at the time of towing unless anything including the driver that goes in it weigh nothing !!

A B+E licence is needed for your set up

 

[christie]

Thank you ROG. I'm 47 do got the licence sorted just need to consider the car... I'll pop back if I have any further questions. Thank You!

 

[ROG]

Thank you ROG. I'm 47 do got the licence sorted just need to consider the car... I'll pop back if I have any further questions. Thank You!

You are welcome

 

[splash1]

Hi, we are looking at updating our tow car, I think our current setup is ok, but would like to know what cars i can look (what weights) at which would be legal to tow with

mum tows the trailer so has a licence pre 1997
I have an Ifor williams 511
currently have a kia sorrento 2005 xe
will be to tow 2 welsh cobs probably atleast 500kg each

 

[ROG]

Hi, we are looking at updating our tow car, I think our current setup is ok, but would like to know what cars i can look (what weights) at which would be legal to tow with

mum tows the trailer so has a licence pre 1997
I have an Ifor williams 511
currently have a kia sorrento 2005 xe
will be to tow 2 welsh cobs probably atleast 500kg each

Any vehicle with at least a 2200 towing capacity should suffice

If you have a car licence then you can tow with MUM in passenger seat with L plates fitted and insurer informed

 

[splash1]

Thank you Rog,

I didn't know I could tow with L plates, is there any restrictions on how /what you can tow on L plates?

 

[ROG]

Thank you Rog,

I didn't know I could tow with L plates, is there any restrictions on how /what you can tow on L plates?

Same as anyone else driving under B+E laws/rules or to put it another way ..... if your MUM can legally do it on her B+E then so can you with her sat next to you



SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.

All B licence holders have B+E provisional on their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.

The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving

 

[Lolabug]

Hello ROG

I posted a a few months back, after much debate I am booked in to do my B+E test in January (eek!), anyway I have already got a trailer, ideally don't want to have to sell the trailer if possible. But all being well and I pass my test in January I am looking at getting a Ford Kuga or VW Tiguan, can you tell me if these care would be legal?


LICENCE
B or B+E = B+E (hopefully)

VEHICLE Ford Kuga 2.0 TDCI
Kerb = 1613KG
GVW = 2130KG
Towing capacity = 2100KG
GTW = ?

VEHICLE VW Tiguan
Kerb = 1688KG
GVW = 2200KG
Towing capacity = 2000KG
GTW = ?


TRAILER ifor 505
Unladen = 905kg
MAM = 2340kg

Many Thanks

 

[ROG]

Hello ROG

I posted a a few months back, after much debate I am booked in to do my B+E test in January (eek!), anyway I have already got a trailer, ideally don't want to have to sell the trailer if possible. But all being well and I pass my test in January I am looking at getting a Ford Kuga or VW Tiguan, can you tell me if these care would be legal?


LICENCE
B or B+E = B+E (hopefully)

VEHICLE Ford Kuga 2.0 TDCI
GVW = 2130KG
Towing capacity = 2100KG


VEHICLE VW Tiguan
GVW = 2200KG
Towing capacity = 2000KG



TRAILER ifor 505
Unladen = 905kg
MAM = 2340kg

Many Thanks

Using B+E rules -

Kuga = max load for trailer 1195

Tiguan = max load for trailer 1095

 

[ROG]

Xmas/New year holls bump

 

[tallyho!]

Merry Christmas happy tow-ers!

Merry Christmas ROG and thanks for all your help in 2017

 

[Kizzy2004]

Hi there

Happy New Year

I’m hoping for some advice on towing.

I currently have an ordinary B license and plan to do the test shortly.

The car I have at the moment is a 2016 Kia Sportage AWD

The towing capacity is 2,200
Min kerb weight 1,690
Max kerb weight 1,831
GVM is 2,250

Trailer iw505
Unladen weight 905
Weight capacity 1,435
Max gross weight 2,340

I know I wouldn’t be able to tow the max trailer capacity with the vehicle.

I have 2 ponies weighing 350 and 400kg apx respectively and the likelihood of them both being taken out together is unlikely.

However my questions are as follows;

Would the car be capable of safely towing the trailer staying a reasonable amount under the vehicle towing capacity? If the vehicle was ok would it be reasonable to take both ponies within capacity or would I have to ensure it’s only one at a time?

My friend has kindly offered me the use of her trailer to practise for my test, I’ve towed small trailers before but would like to practice with a larger trailer, could I do this legally in my current license with an empty trailer? And if I wanted to weight it down with something like bedding/feed etc what wiggle room would I have on the B license?

Also finally, if all being well with the vehicles capacity, could I legally tow without the license on L plates with someone’s who’s passed pre 1997? I’d stil want to do my license anyway but would be useful whilst practising to go to the odd lesson down the road.

Thanks in advance for your help

 

[ROG]

Hi there

Happy New Year

I’m hoping for some advice on towing.

I currently have an ordinary B license and plan to do the test shortly.

The car I have at the moment is a 2016 Kia Sportage AWD

The towing capacity is 2,200
Min kerb weight 1,690
Max kerb weight 1,831
GVM is 2,250

Trailer iw505
Unladen weight 905
Weight capacity 1,435
Max gross weight 2,340

I know I wouldn’t be able to tow the max trailer capacity with the vehicle.

I have 2 ponies weighing 350 and 400kg apx respectively and the likelihood of them both being taken out together is unlikely.

However my questions are as follows;

Would the car be capable of safely towing the trailer staying a reasonable amount under the vehicle towing capacity? If the vehicle was ok would it be reasonable to take both ponies within capacity or would I have to ensure it’s only one at a time?

My friend has kindly offered me the use of her trailer to practise for my test, I’ve towed small trailers before but would like to practice with a larger trailer, could I do this legally in my current license with an empty trailer? And if I wanted to weight it down with something like bedding/feed etc what wiggle room would I have on the B license?

GVW 2250 + 2340 = 4790 so well over the 3500 limit for B towing
Whether trailer empty or loaded the plated weight stays the same and that is what licences go on

this might help - even with 100 year old great grand parent in the passenger seat -
SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.

All B licence holders have B+E provisional on their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.

The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving


Under B+E licence rules you can load a max of 1295 into the trailer with your set up so 750 of ponies is easily ok

 

[Kizzy2004]

Thanks ROG for your prompt response.

I’m easily confused I’m afraid so you may need to bare with me.

So the vehicle would be fine with the ponies I have under the b+e license once I’ve taken my test which is great.

In regards to towing the empty trailer, is that a no? It’s fine if not I’ve driven and reversed small car trailers so I’m happy to go on that basis and have some lessons before the test.

Also with the L plates I can tow as long as I have the L plates, adequate insurance and someone who passed their test pre 97 and held for at least 3years?

 

[ROG]

Thanks ROG for your prompt response.

I’m easily confused I’m afraid so you may need to bare with me.

1 = So the vehicle would be fine with the ponies I have under the b+e license once I’ve taken my test which is great.

2 = In regards to towing the empty trailer, is that a no? It’s fine if not I’ve driven and reversed small car trailers so I’m happy to go on that basis and have some lessons before the test.

3 = Also with the L plates I can tow as long as I have the L plates, adequate insurance and someone who passed their test pre 97 and held for at least 3years?

1 = yes
2 = no because the plated weight remains the same
3 = yes with anyone over age 21 who has had B+E for 3+ years

If you can get hold of a box type trailer plated between 1000 and 1250 then you can tow it on your own as well as use it for the test providing the vehicle has extra mirrors for the examiner to see both sides of the vehicle/trailer
INFO - the trailer for test must be loaded with 600kg of sand bags or ibc of water

 

[Kizzy2004]

That’s great, thanks so much for your help, think I’ve got it clear in my head now.

I will use the instructors vehicle and trailer for the test I would just like to drive around with a horse trailer on my car a few times before putting the ponies in but sure I’ll be able to persuade someone with the entitlement to sit with me.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[Laura2408]

1 - What licence they hold - B
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle 1500
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle 2240
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle 2200
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres- 1600
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer 770

Pony weight 430kg

Is this legal ROG?

 

[ROG]

1 - What licence they hold - B
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle 1500
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle 2240
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle 2200
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres- 1600
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer 770

Pony weight 430kg

Is this legal ROG?

You have a HB401/3

Contact IW and have the trailer down plated to 1250 which will leave a max of 480 for the trailer load so 50 to spare with a 430 pony

Cost is likely to be about £50 - you remove plate and send to IW with fee - IW send you new plate - you fit new plate - needs drill and pop rivet gun

 

[Laura2408]

Fab rOg thank you. Thought it was too tight to be legal!

 

[Seasick]

Hi, I need to replace my tow car after 12 years of faithful service. My current car has a petrol engine, but, despite all the warnings about particulates and moves to discourage diesel cars, it's almost impossible to find a 4wd petrol car with a reasonable towing capability. The only one we have found is the Subaru Forester (petrol auto has 2000kg tow weight). However, the Forester has a tow ball limit of only 80kg, but Ifor Williams tell me my 505 trailer has a nose weight of 97kg. Presumably then this is not a safe combination, and I need a car with at least 100kg tow ball weight?
Another we are considering is a Kia Sportage, some (diesel) models have a 2,200kg tow weight, which seems a lot for a not particularly big car.
I have an IW505, and usually tow one 500kg horse, occasionally also a 300kg pony, but it would be nice to have the capability to tow two 500kg horses if required, and as an oldie I have B+E licence.
This is also going to be an every day car, so needs to be reasonably economical to run. Any other suggestions?

 

[ROG]

Hi, I need to replace my tow car after 12 years of faithful service. My current car has a petrol engine, but, despite all the warnings about particulates and moves to discourage diesel cars, it's almost impossible to find a 4wd petrol car with a reasonable towing capability. The only one we have found is the Subaru Forester (petrol auto has 2000kg tow weight). However, the Forester has a tow ball limit of only 80kg, but Ifor Williams tell me my 505 trailer has a nose weight of 97kg. Presumably then this is not a safe combination, and I need a car with at least 100kg tow ball weight?
Another we are considering is a Kia Sportage, some (diesel) models have a 2,200kg tow weight, which seems a lot for a not particularly big car.
I have an IW505, and usually tow one 500kg horse, occasionally also a 300kg pony, but it would be nice to have the capability to tow two 500kg horses if required, and as an oldie I have B+E licence.
This is also going to be an every day car, so needs to be reasonably economical to run. Any other suggestions?

You will get better responses by posting this in the main forum.

My remit is on the law for licences and weights