Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[ROG]

Excellent, humble pie is good as it means the pony can go to shows! Just need to ring my insurance company on Mon...

Thanks very much for your advice

thats what this thread/sticky is all about

Suggest getting your B+E asap so you can go out on your own - it is only a one-off financial outlay and virtually lasts for life
In your case you will have lots of experience doing the real thing prior to a little DSA driving style training and test

 

[zoon]

I have just bought an old rice europa trailer (1993). I have a B license, so until I sit my test, the other half will be towing (he has B+E). We currently do not have a towing vehicle and are borrowing a terrano if we need to move it (trailer needs some work, so isn't going anywhere at the moment). Can you tell me what all these numbers mean so I know what vehicle to look for when buying as want to make sure i get something legal to tow my trailer with, but also want the smallest most economical vehicle too!

 

[ROG]

I have just bought an old rice europa trailer (1993). I have a B license, so until I sit my test, the other half will be towing (he has B+E). We currently do not have a towing vehicle and are borrowing a terrano if we need to move it (trailer needs some work, so isn't going anywhere at the moment). Can you tell me what all these numbers mean so I know what vehicle to look for when buying as want to make sure i get something legal to tow my trailer with, but also want the smallest most economical vehicle too!

With a B+E licence all you really need to look for is the towing capacity which should be in the handbook or if not got that then perhaps THIS SITE might be the easiest to use
Does not matter if the plated MAM of the trailer is more or less than the towing capacity because you just have to make sure it does not exceed the lower of those weights when loaded

You might be better to ask about what towing vehicle to buy as a seperate thread in the lounge forum as that will get many replies and to be honest I am not the best person to ask on that issue

Why must OH drive when towing?
If OH is over age 21 and has had B+E for 3+ years then YOU can tow a B+E set up on your provisional which you have on the paper part of your licence
L plates on back of trailer and front of vehicle plus correct insurance and you are good to go

 

[ROG]

For fuel mpg figures

I find this site really useful:

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/

Hope it helps!

 

[zoon]

Thanks - with such an old trailer how do I find out the MAM (and what does this mean?)?

 

[ROG]

Thanks - with such an old trailer how do I find out the MAM (and what does this mean?)?

The MAM (or GVW) is the maximum it can weigh when fully loaded

This can usually be found on a plate which is usually siler in colour attached to the trailer
If there is no plate then the tyre load ratings will be used to determine the MAM

If you have the exact model the maybe I can find the MAM on the internet

 

[coss]

With a B+E licence all you really need to look for is the towing capacity which should be in the handbook or if not got that then perhaps THIS SITE might be the easiest to use
Does not matter if the plated MAM of the trailer is more or less than the towing capacity because you just have to make sure it does not exceed the lower of those weights when loaded

You might be better to ask about what towing vehicle to buy as a seperate thread in the lounge forum as that will get many replies and to be honest I am not the best person to ask on that issue

Why must OH drive when towing?
If OH is over age 21 and has had B+E for 3+ years then YOU can tow a B+E set up on your provisional which you have on the paper part of your licence
L plates on back of trailer and front of vehicle plus correct insurance and you are good to go

re correct insurance - if you are the policy holder of your own car, do you have to let insurance know you plan to learn to tow with L plates on? ie, does that need extra insurance? Hoping a friend of mine (>21year with >3years as B+E) will be a passenger for me to tow in my own car.

 

[ester]

coss I'm a named driver on parents 4x4 (initially for learning to tow purposes only). Informed them that we would be doing that but they weren't really worried about it/didn't make premium any different.

 

[fishy]

Just wondered if you could help me, can I tow with my ford kuga?
Its a 2008 2.0tdci AWD I believe it has a towing capacity of 2100kg. I would be hoping to tow an Ifor Williams 505, is this possible? Passed my test before 97. Many thanks

 

[ROG]

coss I'm a named driver on parents 4x4 (initially for learning to tow purposes only). Informed them that we would be doing that but they weren't really worried about it/didn't make premium any different.

That seems to be the case for everyone I have spoken to on this issue

The insurers just like to be informed and its good practice to do so .... just in case

 

[ROG]

Just wondered if you could help me, can I tow with my ford kuga?
Its a 2008 2.0tdci AWD I believe it has a towing capacity of 2100kg. I would be hoping to tow an Ifor Williams 505, is this possible? Passed my test before 97. Many thanks

You have a B+E so thats ok

2100 seems ok for the towing capacity - I just checked it on an internet site

IFOR HB505 is 905 unladen and 2340 MAM

Providing you do not load more than 1195 into the trailer then OK
905+1195=2100

 

[ROG]

Can an Audi s3 pull a lightish (Ifor/bates) trailer with a 400kg horse in. Car is a 1.8 turbo powered weighing around 1.6 ton. Have tried looking on internet but no good, thanks

http://www.usedcarexpert.co.uk/cars/audi/a3/specs-stats/dimensions/
http://www.horsetrailersales.co.uk/NewIforHB401.htm
Not knowing the exact A3 model is a bit hampering so I'll take a guess
Same with the Ifor trailer .....

AUDI
kerb = 1300 approx
GVW = 1900 approx
Towing = 1400

IFOR
unladen = 800 guess
MAM = 1600 guess but can be downplated to 1300
LOAD capacity = 500 so 400 will fit easy

Legal on a B licence

With a B+E licence all you need to be concerned with is....
The trailer MAM will take the weight of the horse and when loaded will not be more than 1400

Can you give me more exact figures or models please

 

[Black_Horse_White]

The plate on my Ifor 505 says 2340 & 1170 could please explain is the higher number the MAM and the lower the unladen weight? My 4x4 can tow 3000kg. Very confusing this towing lark ;-)

 

[ROG]

The plate on my Ifor 505 says 2340 & 1170 could please explain is the higher number the MAM and the lower the unladen weight? My 4x4 can tow 3000kg. Very confusing this towing lark ;-)

You got it

You can load 1170 into that trailer (2340-1170=1170)

With a B+E licence and as long as you never exceed the trailer 2340 MAM all will be legal in regards to licence and towing weights

PS - its unusual for a HB505 to have an unladen weight of 1170 as they usually are 905
Is there any reason for yours having a higher weight that you are aware of?

 

[ChriX]

Hi Rog, thanks for all the information.

1. B
2. 1463
3. 1940
4. 700 (unbraked)
5. 750
6. 150

Am I right in thinking this will be legal as long as I don't load the trailer with more than 550kg?

 

[ROG]

Hi Rog, thanks for all the information.

1. B
2. 1463
3. 1940
4. 700 (unbraked)
5. 750
6. 150

Am I right in thinking this will be legal as long as I don't load the trailer with more than 550kg?

CORRECT

IS THIS YOUR CAR? - if it is then it has a braked towing capacity of 1500

You can tow a trailer max MAM of 1463 on your B licence with this car

That means you can have a 600 kg horse in one of these with a little downplating by the manufacturer

BATESON LIGHT HORSE TRAILER downplate to 1450
CHEVAL LIGHT HORSE TRAILER no need to downplate
IFOR LIGHT HORSE TRAILER downplate to 1450

 

[ChriX]

Great! Now to find me a decent trailer with a MAM of 750 - didn't really want to spend as much as is necessary to get a braked one yet.

Actually that is not my car but you are correct that it does have a braked capacity of 1500 in the V5. It's a Volvo S40 2.0D.

I actually found your thread from a post you put up on the Stationary Engine forum that nobody has replied to! I only want to use it for carrying engines/machines - nothing quite as heavy as a horse yet.

Thanks again,
Chris

 

[ROG]

Great! Now to find me a decent trailer with a MAM of 750 - didn't really want to spend as much as is necessary to get a braked one yet.

Actually that is not my car but you are correct that it does have a braked capacity of 1500 in the V5. It's a Volvo S40 2.0D.

I actually found your thread from a post you put up on the Stationary Engine forum that nobody has replied to! I only want to use it for carrying engines/machines - nothing quite as heavy as a horse yet.

Thanks again,
Chris

WELCOME and you are welcome

If you google - Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained - you will find many types of forums where the same info is posted by me as it is a generally confusing issue for many

I put the examples in the last post so you and others can see what can be done on a B licence in regards to weights

 

[TheDutchy]

hi i have a nissan x trail which is under 2000 kerbweight i have downgraded my bateson plate to 1500 mam as only ever tow one 550 horse and unladen trailer weight 760 so my understanding is i am legal on b licence as passed in 2000 is this right?

 

[ROG]

hi i have a nissan x trail which is under 2000 kerbweight i have downgraded my bateson plate to 1500 mam as only ever tow one 550 horse and unladen trailer weight 760 so my understanding is i am legal on b licence as passed in 2000 is this right?

Not quite right

You are adding the kerbweight to the trailer MAM for the 3500 rule when it should be the GVW plus the trailer MAM for the 3500 rule

From 2005 the X trailer seems to be 2050 GVW and from 2010 is seems to be 2170 GVW which means for B licence towing ....

If the X trail is a 2005 - 2009 the max trailer MAM is 1450 kgs
If the X trail is a 2010 - now the max trailer MAM is 1330 kgs

Assuming the GVW figures I found are correct (you can check yours to confirm) then a 1500 MAM is illegal in both cases for B licence towing

The rules for B licence towing are -
Vehicle GVW + Trailer MAM = max 3500
Trailer MAM not more than Vehicle unladen weight
Actual trailer weight when loaded must not be more than towing capacity
No plated weights must be exceeded

PLEASE post your GVW

 

[TheDutchy]

Yes is gvw is 2050 so I'll have a look what trailer is downplated to again today providing its 1450 or less I should be ok :-s

 

[ROG]

Yes is gvw is 2050 so I'll have a look what trailer is downplated to again today providing its 1450 or less I should be ok :-s

98% yes

There is one 2005 X trail model with a kerb/unladen weight of 1430 so a 1450 MAM would make it illegal but all the rest are 1450 or more

760+550=1310 so with a 1450 MAM that still leaves 140 to play with

 

[TheDutchy]

Hi rog thanks for that mine is a 2004 2.2 sport dci which seems to be 2050kg gvw on the internet I will have to check trailer plate now as I'm sure I plated it under 1500- what are the repurcussions of the 3500 being exceeded on paper but not if u are taken to weigh bridge ? And would I be right thinking its vosa who enforce this??

 

[ROG]

Hi rog thanks for that mine is a 2004 2.2 sport dci which seems to be 2050kg gvw on the internet I will have to check trailer plate now as I'm sure I plated it under 1500- what are the repurcussions of the 3500 being exceeded on paper but not if u are taken to weigh bridge ? And would I be right thinking its vosa who enforce this??

Its a licence issue so it would be the police
VOSA deal with weight and safety issues but will call the police if a licence issue crops up
If alone on B licence & towing when the weights require a B+E licence then the driver can get charged with no L plates, no supervising driver and possibly no insurance - depends what insurer says
That is because all B licence holders have provisional B+E on the paper part of the licence

 

[jackessex]

hi i have a hilux surf ltd edition (m reg diesel)and a rice richardson trailer (old one)i have no idea how to find out weights etc could someone tell me if i am able to tow a 450kg horse on a b licence,i know im useless sorry

 

[Amberfield]

I am thinking of buying a Freelander 2 to tow with , but have no idea whether this will work with my trailer. I did have a Land Rover Defender but for work reasons need a more ' car ' type 4 x 4 . On the info I have would this be legal to tow a 580kg horse ?

Richardson Supreme Ultra Trailer : -

1. BE
2. 1785kgs
3. 2505kgs
4. 4505kgs
5. Not known !
6. 1100kgs.

I hope I have used all the correct figures , but probably not , it's so complicated ! Many thanks for your help and what a great thread.

 

[ROG]

hi i have a hilux surf ltd edition (m reg diesel)and a rice richardson trailer (old one)i have no idea how to find out weights etc could someone tell me if i am able to tow a 450kg horse on a b licence,i know im useless sorry

Not a lot to go on !!

WHICH HILUX IS YOURS IN THIS LIST?
There should be a plate somewhere on the car but there certainly will be weight info on the V5 registered keepers document and in the handbook if you have it

contact http://www.richardsonrice.co.uk/ with a chasis number which could be anywhere on the trailer to find out the unladen and MAM weights for it
I doubt the original plate is still somewhere on the trailer - but you might be lucky

Once I have some info then I will be able to help

 

[ROG]

I am thinking of buying a Freelander 2 to tow with , but have no idea whether this will work with my trailer. I did have a Land Rover Defender but for work reasons need a more ' car ' type 4 x 4 . On the info I have would this be legal to tow a 580kg horse ?

Richardson Supreme Ultra Trailer : -

1. BE
2. 1785kgs
3. 2505kgs
4. 4505kgs
5. Not known !
6. 1100kgs.

I hope I have used all the correct figures , but probably not , it's so complicated ! Many thanks for your help and what a great thread.

LICENCE
B+E
IS THIS YOUR FREELANDER ? - if yes....
Kerb 1785
GVW 2505
Towing max 2000 (actual weight)
YOUR TRAILER
Unladen 1100
MAM 3200
HORSE/WEIGHT 600 in case of extra apples

Load horse in trailer and it actually weighs 1700 (1100+600=1700) which still leaves another 300 that you can load into the trailer due to the towing limit of 2000

So yes, on a B+E licence that is legal

For others wondering - no good for B licence towing as the high GVW of 2505 only leaves a max trailer MAM of 995 kgs

 

[justjaz]

Hi ROG

Muddying the waters a little here but is there any legal requirement regarding trailer 'noseweight' & the towbar max noseweight?

As I've got a single IW 401 the trailer noseweight says it's 100kg. I'm looking into replacing the slightly battered Shogun which takes 125kg on the tow bar with something less 'beefy' but many of the 'soft roaders' or larger estate cars have a 75kg limit?

Many thanks for your help.

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG

Muddying the waters a little here but is there any legal requirement regarding trailer 'noseweight' & the towbar max noseweight?

As I've got a single IW 401 the trailer noseweight says it's 100kg. I'm looking into replacing the slightly battered Shogun which takes 125kg on the tow bar with something less 'beefy' but many of the 'soft roaders' or larger estate cars have a 75kg limit?

Many thanks for your help.

Gotta be honest here - these are issue I have very little knowledge of BUT ...

If the manufacturer has stated a max for them then it is likely that any driver not conforming could be prosecuted under vehicle safety legislation in the same way as exceeding the towing capacity