Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[ROG]

Thanks rog, bet those trailers are like hens teeth!

Few were going on this site recently so perhaps asking in New Lounge forum might work - idea?

 

[Shakira38]

Hi
I've got an Audi A3 Sport 2.0 TDI. Can I tow my Ifor Williams 505R trailer with a 350/400kg pony in legally (I have done my trailer test)? If I can has anyone heard of how powerful they are for towing?
This is the details I found on uktow.com
Year 2005
Kerbweight (Kg) 1380
85% (Kg) 1173
Towing Capacity (Kg) 1400
Towing Capacity (Lbs) 3086

Thanks

 

[ROG]

Hi
I've got an Audi A3 Sport 2.0 TDI. Can I tow my Ifor Williams 505R trailer with a 350/400kg pony in legally (I have done my trailer test)? If I can has anyone heard of how powerful they are for towing?
This is the details I found on uktow.com
Year 2005
Kerbweight (Kg) 1380 NOT NEEDED FOR B+E
85% (Kg) 1173 CARAVANS ONLY
Towing Capacity (Kg) 1400 THATS THE BIT I NEED FOR B+E
Towing Capacity (Lbs) 3086

Thanks

IFOR 505
UNLADEN 905
MAM 2340

Limited to a total weight of empty trailer plus load/horse to 1400 kgs
trailer 905 plus horse 395 = 1300
that still leaves 100 kgs for other stuff in trailer

I also reckon that if the trailer was downplated to just below 1400 (1380) then it would also be legal for B licence towing assuming the car GVW was not over 2100 kgs

Make sure you do not put too much other stuff in trailer with horse and you will be fine with a B+E licence

 

[Shakira38]

IFOR 505
UNLADEN 905
MAM 2340

Limited to a total weight of empty trailer plus load/horse to 1400 kgs
trailer 905 plus horse 395 = 1300
that still leaves 100 kgs for other stuff in trailer

I also reckon that if the trailer was downplated to just below 1400 (1380) then it would also be legal for B licence towing assuming the car GVW was not over 2100 kgs

Make sure you do not put too much other stuff in trailer with horse and you will be fine with a B+E licence

Thank you. I have decided I'm going to sell my A3 and buy a 4x4. I haven't yet decided on which but I wondered if you've heard of any which you could recommend? Personally I was looking at a short wheel base nissan terrano or mitsubishi shogun or izusu trooper. I also like toyota ravs but not sure how they fair weight wise and driving like for towing? Can you recommened anything?

 

[ROG]

Can you recommened anything?

Not my bag - my remit is more to do with weights and licence issues however, this may be of use - What towing vehicle and trailer do you have? - I asked the posters to rate them out of 10

 

[Confuzz]

1 - What licence they hold - B
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle ? It's a Rav4 2.0 D-4D XT3 05 reg
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle 1930kg
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle 1500kg

I have this car and I'm looking at buying a 401 or 403 ifor Williams trailer. I would be towing one 460kg pony.

Can this be done legally?
What weight would I need to have a trailer replated at?
I'm hoping you'll be able to help before I go out and buy a trailer and then find I'd still need to do a trailer test or buy a bigger towing vehicle!

 

[ROG]

1 - What licence they hold - B
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle ? It's a Rav4 2.0 D-4D XT3 05 reg
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle 1930kg
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle 1500kg

I have this car and I'm looking at buying a 401 or 403 ifor Williams trailer. I would be towing one 460kg pony.

Can this be done legally?
What weight would I need to have a trailer replated at?
I'm hoping you'll be able to help before I go out and buy a trailer and then find I'd still need to do a trailer test or buy a bigger towing vehicle!

DIMENSIONS FOR YOUR VEHICLE
Kerb 1442
GVW 1930
Towing 1500

HB401 specifications - HB403 is virtually the same
Unladen 770
MAM 1600

Horse/load 460 kgs

Replate trailer to 1442 maximum as it cannot have a MAM more than the kerbweight
Personally, I would downplate to 1400 which still leaves 630 kgs for the horse/load

The GVW added to the MAM is not more than 3500 kgs so that is OK

That would be perfectly legal for B licence towing

 

[Always Henesy]

Dear ROG

I wuold be most grateful for your assistance and advice regarding my towing set up.

I have a 2004 Grand Jeep Cherokee 2.7CRD automatic.

I have a pre 1997 licence
Trailer is an IW HB511 2 1/2 years old.

The trailer's unladen weight is 1000.00kg
The weight capacity is 1700.00kg

My horse weighs 850kg and usually tow him no problems.
If I were to add another horse of 600kg would my Jeep be able to tow this weight legally?
I can't find my Jeep manual but think the towing weight capacity is 3500kg?
I have no idea how heavy the car is???

Would you please be kind enough to advise?

many thanks
AH
x

 

[ROG]

Dear ROG

I wuold be most grateful for your assistance and advice regarding my towing set up.

I have a 2004 Grand Jeep Cherokee 2.7CRD automatic.

I have a pre 1997 licence
Trailer is an IW HB511 2 1/2 years old.

The trailer's unladen weight is 1000.00kg
The weight capacity is 1700.00kg

My horse weighs 850kg and usually tow him no problems.
If I were to add another horse of 600kg would my Jeep be able to tow this weight legally?
I can't find my Jeep manual but think the towing weight capacity is 3500kg?
I have no idea how heavy the car is???

Would you please be kind enough to advise?

many thanks
AH
x

You have a B+E licence so no probs on that

Jeep Grand Cherokee 2.7 CRD LIMITED 5DR AUTO
Towing capacity 3500 kgs

IFOR HB511
Unladen 1000
MAM 2700

With that set up you can load 1700 kgs into the trailer
850+600=1450 so that still leaves you with 250 kgs to spare

 

[Always Henesy]

Thank you so much for your help ROG

A very quick response - you are an absolute asset to this forum

 

[martharolfe]

I keep reading about people downplating trailers. Is this so that they can stay within the 3500kg combined weight without having to pass the additional trailer/towing test now required for newer drivers?

Is downplating required for those who have had their licenses before 1997?

Surely, you do not have to have a vehicle that has a towing capacity of the MAM of your trailer, as opposed to the actual weight you are pulling (trailer unladen plus cargo)?

THanks in advance. THis is a WONDERFUL clinic and I am very grateful to all the posters here and Rog!

 

[ROG]

I keep reading about people downplating trailers. Is this so that they can stay within the 3500kg combined weight without having to pass the additional trailer/towing test now required for newer drivers?

Is downplating required for those who have had their licenses before 1997?

Surely, you do not have to have a vehicle that has a towing capacity of the MAM of your trailer, as opposed to the actual weight you are pulling (trailer unladen plus cargo)?

THanks in advance. THis is a WONDERFUL clinic and I am very grateful to all the posters here and Rog!

Downplating is only needed to conform to the 3500 total MAM/GVW rule for B licence towing

No point for those before 1997 because they have B+E licences

There is no law or rule which says the MAM of the trailer cannot be more than the manufacturers towing capacity of the vehicle

This example would be legal for B or B+E licence towing
Having B+E means not having to downplate the trailer in this example

Vehicle
Unladen 1500
GVW 2000
Towing capacity 1400

Trailer
Unladen 700
MAM 1500 but downplated by manufacturer from 2000 for B licence towing

Max load for trailer would be 700 because 700+700=1400 which is the maximum towing capacity

 

[billylula]

Hi Rog!

I am about to buy a Jeep Cherokee 2.7 auto sport diesel for towing. I was wondering whether if I only towed a single horse trailer (the HB401) with a 300kg pony in it would mean I didn't have to take my B+E test? *thinks hopeful thoughts* ?

Thanks for your help.

 

[ROG]

Hi Rog!

I am about to buy a Jeep Cherokee 2.7 auto sport diesel for towing. I was wondering whether if I only towed a single horse trailer (the HB401) with a 300kg pony in it would mean I didn't have to take my B+E test? *thinks hopeful thoughts* ?

Thanks for your help.

Jeep Grand Cherokee 2.7 CRD LIMITED 5DR AUTO
Kerb 2135
GVW 2506
Towing 3500

Max plated MAM for trailer on a B only licence would be 994 kgs so downplating the HB401 to that and deducting the trailer unladen weight of 770 would leave 224 kgs for the horse/load !!!!!!!

You need a vehicle with a lower GVW - perhaps around 2200 max

 

[billylula]

Oh well!

I've applied to do my B + E anyway just trying to see if there was a way round it

 

[ROG]

Oh well!

I've applied to do my B + E anyway just trying to see if there was a way round it

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner

Many will find that passing the once in a lifetime B+E test is their best option so here is some info on that test:-

The B+E test
No medical or theory test required
Read a number plate from a certain distance
VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions - usually 5
The next three can be in any order:-
VIDEO - Reversing Exercise - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test

DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos

This is interesting – a B licence towing set up can be presented for the B+E test but L plates must be used for the test. So you can train yourself, go to test by yourself, fit L plates, do the test, then, pass or fail, remove L plates and drive away by yourself.
DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS

 

[MSS]

Hi, could I ask a question about towing with L plates?

Vehicle is a Jeep Cherokee 2.5 TD Limited and the trailer ifor 510

Vehicle weight 1635 kg
Braked Towing Weight 2500kg

Trailet Unlaiden weight 1000kg
Weight capacity 1584 kg
Max gross weight 2584 kg

Would it be legal to tow this with B license and L plates under supervision of holder of B+E license (had the b+e over 3 years)?

Ps many thanks for excellent forum posts ROG!

 

[ROG]

Hi, could I ask a question about towing with L plates?

Vehicle is a Jeep Cherokee 2.5 TD Limited and the trailer ifor 510

Vehicle weight 1635 kg
Braked Towing Weight 2500kg

Trailet Unlaiden weight 1000kg
Weight capacity 1584 kg
Max gross weight 2584 kg

Would it be legal to tow this with B license and L plates under supervision of holder of B+E license (had the b+e over 3 years)?

Ps many thanks for excellent forum posts ROG!

Check/inform your insurer and away you go

Load max 1500 kgs and go driving on a motorway - all legal

 

[zoon]

finally decided to sell my rice trailer even though it is only 737kg so perfect for B licence towing if downplated. My mare is just a bit too long to fit in it. I will buy another single horse trailer - either an ifor 401 or 403 or cheval liberte Gold one Pullman v2. I want to tow on a b licence and will get either a Kia sportage or Toyota rav4. But other than that, I am unsure what combination to go for. Have just been looking at kias and there seem to be 2 different kerb weights and towing capacities. Haven't looked at toyotas yet. I know I'll probably need to get the trailers down plated. My horse weighs about 500kg

 

[ROG]

finally decided to sell my rice trailer even though it is only 737kg so perfect for B licence towing if downplated. My mare is just a bit too long to fit in it. I will buy another single horse trailer - either an ifor 401 or 403 or cheval liberte Gold one Pullman v2. I want to tow on a b licence and will get either a Kia sportage or Toyota rav4. But other than that, I am unsure what combination to go for. Have just been looking at kias and there seem to be 2 different kerb weights and towing capacities. Haven't looked at toyotas yet. I know I'll probably need to get the trailers down plated. My horse weighs about 500kg

This might help.....

BATESON LIGHT HORSE TRAILER 675kgs
CHEVAL LIGHT HORSE TRAILER 655kgs
IFOR LIGHT HORSE TRAILER 770kgs

Contact trailer manufacturer to have trailer downplated if needed (free or very little cost)

2005 Toyota RAV4 2.0 D-4D XT3 5DR (4X4) with these specifications/dimensions
Unladen/kerb = 1442
GVW = 1930
Max towing weight = 1500
Max trailer plated MAM = 1442 kgs

Nissan X trail (4X4) with these specifications/dimensions
Unladen/kerb = 1515
GVW = 2050
Towing = 2000
Max trailer plated MAM = 1450 kgs

Kia Sportage (AWD) with these specifications/dimensions
Unladen/kerb = 1678
GVW = 2140
Towing = 1600
Max trailer plated MAM = 1360 kgs

FREELANDER 1 (2001 - 2005)
Unladen/kerb = 1500
GVW = 2040
Towing = 1800
Max trailer plated MAM = 1460 kgs

SUBARU FORRESTER (4X4)
Unladen/kerb = 1465 minimum
GVW = 2050 maximum
Towing = 2000
Max trailer plated MAM = 1450 kgs

Skoda Yeti (4X4) with these specifications/dimensions
Kerb = 1530
GVW = 2070
Towing capacity = 2000
Max trailer plated MAM = 1430 kgs


Deduct trailer unladen weight from max trailer plated weight to get maximum load/horse weight for the trailer
Example:- Nissan (1450) minus IFOR HB401 (770) = load/horse 680 kgs

 

[zoon]

With regards to the kia - what does AWD mean? Looking at an 09 Titan, max towing weight of 1800 and kerb weight of 1842 - different to the one you sted, but can't work out which version yours is?

 

[ROG]

With regards to the kia - what does AWD mean? Looking at an 09 Titan, max towing weight of 1800 and kerb weight of 1842 - different to the one you sted, but can't work out which version yours is?

AWD = all wheel drive - not sure how that differs from a 4 wheel drive!!

THIS TITAN?
KERB 1842
GVW 2260
TOWING 1800

Max MAM of trailer for B licence towing = 1240 kgs

 

[zoon]

Yes, that's a bit tight weight wise then. Can't find a sportage with the weights you mentioned. I need leather seats, so will need to be an XS model

 

[ROG]

Yes, that's a bit tight weight wise then. Can't find a sportage with the weights you mentioned. I need leather seats, so will need to be an XS model

SPORTAGE DIMENSIONS
Loads in that link - just click on the year and scroll down

 

[ROG]

KIA Sportage 2.0 CRDI XS 5DR 2WD AUTO 2010
This XS has these specs
Kia Sportage (AWD) with these specifications/dimensions
Unladen/kerb = 1769
GVW = 2140
Towing = 1400
Max trailer plated MAM = 1360 kgs

 

[zoon]

How about this one ?
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...ords/xs/radius/100/postcode/me160wn?logcode=p

 

[ROG]

How about this one ?
KIA Sportage 2.0 CRDI XS 5DR AUTO 2005

That is another AUTO - is that what you want?

kerbweight 1774
GVW 2210
Towing 1600
Max trailer MAM for B licence towing = 1290 kgs

It does seem that there is a difference in the weight dimensions between AUTO and MANUAL for the same models

 

[zoon]

No, not really! This is a minefield isn't it! My main reason for going for small trailer and smaller vehicle is cost - less fuel, greater economy and lower insurance and tax. Happy to do my B+E but still won't be buying a big trailer or 4x4 so don't see the point if I can do without, but trying to find a car is very hard! I am not entirely sure how you're working the figures out! Ok, so how about this newer rav4? Greater towing capacity, but also heavier vehicle -
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...60wn/keywords/2.2/page/1/radius/100?logcode=p

 

[ROG]

No, not really! This is a minefield isn't it! My main reason for going for small trailer and smaller vehicle is cost - less fuel, greater economy and lower insurance and tax. Happy to do my B+E but still won't be buying a big trailer or 4x4 so don't see the point if I can do without, but trying to find a car is very hard! I am not entirely sure how you're working the figures out! Ok, so how about this newer rav4? Greater towing capacity, but also heavier vehicle -
Toyota RAV-4 Xt4 D-4d 2.2 5dr 2007

KERBWEIGHT 1585
GVW 2190
TOWING 2000

MAX TRAILER MAM FOR B TOWING = 1310 KGS

That is a manual

To work out the figures click the DIMENSIONS tab in the link to find the kerb, gvw and towing weights
Then deduct the gvw from 3500 and that gives the max trailer MAM

Just to be certain it conforms to the B towing rules check that the max trailer MAM is not more than the kerbweight

Now check that the whole of the trailer MAM can be used by seeing if it is less than the towing capacity

 

[zoon]

KERBWEIGHT 1585
GVW 2190
TOWING 2000

MAX TRAILER MAM FOR B TOWING = 1310 KGS

That is a manual

I'd prefer a manual. So with that car and a cheval liberte of 655kg how much horse can I fit in? Do I need to take into account weight of people, water, tack etc?