Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[ROG]

Jim at Marlborough Horseboxes actually uses this type of set up to move 4 horses as he uses a 3.5 tonne horsebox with 2 lightish horses in it and then tows a horse trailer with 2 heavier horses in it

The horsebox (3500 GVW) actually weighs just under 3.5 tonnes and the 2 horse trailer (MAM about 2500) weighs just under 2 tonnes so is well in the 5500 kgs GTW limit

 

[* TEAM SAM *]

Is there anything i could tow with a x5 55plate 3.0d without passing my trailer test as i passed after 97 .... Just for time been until i have done test ? even if its just to get some practice going to local shows lessons .. i have no one to come with me else i would do this ... i used to tow years ago and didnt even realise now i have to be more careful and responsible

Thanks Sam

 

[ROG]

Is there anything i could tow with a x5 55plate 3.0d without passing my trailer test as i passed after 97 .... Just for time been until i have done test ? even if its just to get some practice going to local shows lessons .. i have no one to come with me else i would do this ... i used to tow years ago and didnt even realise now i have to be more careful and responsible

Thanks Sam

Got your PM and answered this but As it might help others I will also copy that answer here -

IF THIS IS YOUR VEHICLE then it has a GVW of 2685 kgs which means that the maximum trailer you can tow on a B licence is only 815 kgs plated MAM and most horse trailers weigh near to that empty !!

No good for B licence horse trailer towing - you need a vehicle with a lower GVW perhaps around the 2000/2100 mark
Thats why the 4X4 Nissan Xtrail is so popular with B licence single horse trailer towers

You can drive it on your B+E provisional under the usual learner rules

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner

 

[ROG]

To make things perhaps a little easier to understand in regards to towing with a B licence (no B+E)

Find the GVW of your vehicle and then take that figure from 3500
What you are left with is the maximum plated MAM that the trailer can be

If that figure is less than 750 then it can be increased to 750 MAM

MAM or GVW means the maximum something can legally weigh when fully loaded

ONE MORE RULE which may be getting scrapped in Jan 2013
The trailer MAM must not be more than the kerb weight of the vehicle

THE ABOVE IS FOR B LICENCE TOWING ONLY

 

[Scott]

My wife has a 13.2 Welsh Section C and she would like a trailer. We've looked at one today. It's a Bahill trailer with the Serial number A1835.

It has no vin plate on it stating the unladen or max gross weight as I believe its probably too old to have needed one. The owner believes its around 750kgs unladen. Its a rear and front unload, steel chassis and alloy body.

We both passed our tests after 1997. We would be towing it with a BMW 328Ci which has an unladen weight of 1470 kgs and a max gross weight or 1895kgs or 1970kgs whilst towing. The braked towing capacity of the car is 1600kgs.

My question is as it has no vin plate on it stating the max gross weight but can I fit one? The trailer is about 750kgs unladen with her horse is would be about 1100kgs, so if I added a plate with a max gross weight of 1400kgs that should be fine and leaves another 300kgs for extras? I just don't know if I can just fit one!

Many Thanks,

Scott

 

[ROG]

Hi my name is Scott,

My wife has a 13.2 Welsh Section C and she would like a trailer. We've looked at one today. It's a Bahill trailer with the Serial number A1835.

It has no vin plate on it stating the unladen or max gross weight as I believe its probably too old to have needed one. The owner believes its around 750kgs unladen. Its a rear and front unload, steel chassis and alloy body.

We both passed our tests after 1997. We would be towing it with a BMW 328Ci which has an unladen weight of 1470 kgs and a max gross weight or 1895kgs or 1970kgs whilst towing. The braked towing capacity of the car is 1600kgs.

My question is as it has no vin plate on it stating the max gross weight but can I fit one? The trailer is about 750kgs unladen with her horse is would be about 1100kgs, so if I added a plate with a max gross weight of 1400kgs that should be fine and leaves another 300kgs for extras? I just don't know if I can just fit one!

Many Thanks,

Scott

WELCOME

I THINK THIS IS YOUR CAR ???
kerb 1470
GVW 1895
Towing 1600
On a B licence you can have a trailer with max MAM of 1470 with this vehicle

As your trailer does not have a plated weigh and Bayhill are no more then ....
Trailers without plates use the total of the TYRE LOAD RATINGS to determine the MAM.
A rating of 73 on 4 tyres would give a MAM of 1460 kgs.
The authorities will use the tyre load ratings for the MAM

Take trailer empty to a weighbridge to get the exact unladen weight which we assume is 750 kgs at the moment so with a MAM of 1460 it can then be loaded with a max load/horse of 710 kgs

 

[Scott]

WELCOME

I THINK THIS IS YOUR CAR ???
kerb 1470
GVW 1895
Towing 1600
On a B licence you can have a trailer with max MAM of 1470 with this vehicle

As your trailer does not have a plated weigh and Bayhill are no more then ....
Trailers without plates use the total of the TYRE LOAD RATINGS to determine the MAM.
A rating of 73 on 4 tyres would give a MAM of 1460 kgs.
The authorities will use the tyre load ratings for the MAM

Take trailer empty to a weighbridge to get the exact unladen weight which we assume is 750 kgs at the moment so with a MAM of 1460 it can then be loaded with a max load/horse of 710 kgs

Would it be possible to just fit a plate stating the MAM rather than changing all 4 tyres?

Thanks for your help.

 

[ROG]

Would it be possible to just fit a plate stating the MAM rather than changing all 4 tyres?

Not for legal purposes

 

[Scott]

Not for legal purposes

Its all very confusing, I've heard other people mention that it would be fine and others not!

 

[Scott]

Another person has told me that you can just mark the GW on the nearside drawbar with a paint stick!

 

[ROG]

Its all very confusing, I've heard other people mention that it would be fine and others not!

I can assure you 100% that a plate not made by a manufactuer will not count as being legal to determine the MAM

Manufacturers plates are recorded so the authorities have an avenue to check on their authenticity

If there was no such check then manufacturers might as well make trailers designed to take a certain weight, fit apropriate tyres for that weight and then list the max weight allowable for its design and let the public make their own plates as they see fit with the proviso that the max is not exceeded... but that does not happen

All those who say otherwise need to make clear what credibility they can give for saying so.

I am fairly certain that under construction and use regs there is something about this but not certain
I do know that if you contact a trailer manufacturer they can give you the contruction laws for making trailers

 

[Primitive Pony]

Apologies if this has been discussed already...

I am planning to take my B+E test soon, having had a few hours of training, but would like a bit more practice towing without paying the price for another day of training!

My car is a Renault Koleos, mass weight 2300kg so I know I have to take the test in order to tow my horse.

In order to practice, however, I thought I would perhaps a small trailer that is light enough for me to be legal but with an MPV high enough for me to take the test with ie between 1 and 1.2 tons.

Could you please confirm for me that this will be legal for both purposes?

Many thanks!

 

[ROG]

Apologies if this has been discussed already...

I am planning to take my B+E test soon, having had a few hours of training, but would like a bit more practice towing without paying the price for another day of training!

My car is a Renault Koleos, mass weight 2300kg so I know I have to take the test in order to tow my horse.

In order to practice, however, I thought I would perhaps a small trailer that is light enough for me to be legal but with an MPV high enough for me to take the test with ie between 1 and 1.2 tons.

Could you please confirm for me that this will be legal for both purposes?

Many thanks!

CHEVAL LIGHT HORSE TRAILER
BATESON LIGHT HORSE TRAILER

The two trailers above are 655 and 675 ks unladen respectivly
Downplated to 1200 that leaves either 545 or 525 for the load/horse


You could practice as a B+E learner with a supervisng driver -
SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner


The B+E test
No medical or theory test required
Read a number plate from a certain distance
VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions - usually 5
The next three can be in any order:-
VIDEO - Reversing Exercise (old measurements) - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test

If you are considering using your set up for the test -
DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS

DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos

 

[christymooo]

Hi Rog

Would you be able to look at this for me. I think if I get my trailer down plated then I can leaglly tow on my B licence?


1 - What licence they hold - B
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle- 1541kg
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle- 2080kg
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle- 2000kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres- 1600kg
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer-770kg

I have a new VW tiguan and an ifor williams single 401 trailer. If this is legal on a B licence, then is it just a matter of going to an Ifor williams dealer and getting them to replate my trailer?

Thanks

 

[ROG]

Hi Rog

Would you be able to look at this for me. I think if I get my trailer down plated then I can leaglly tow on my B licence?


1 - What licence they hold - B
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle- 1541kg
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle- 2080kg
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle- 2000kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres- 1600kg
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer-770kg

I have a new VW tiguan and an ifor williams single 401 trailer. If this is legal on a B licence, then is it just a matter of going to an Ifor williams dealer and getting them to replate my trailer?

Thanks

Downplate to 1400 for legal B towing (can be 1420 max)
Phone IFOR WILLIAMS on 01490 412527 - ask for customer care
They will sort it and refer you to nearest dealer for the plate to be fitted

 

[Scott]

WELCOME

I THINK THIS IS YOUR CAR ???
kerb 1470
GVW 1895
Towing 1600
On a B licence you can have a trailer with max MAM of 1470 with this vehicle

As your trailer does not have a plated weigh and Bayhill are no more then ....
Trailers without plates use the total of the TYRE LOAD RATINGS to determine the MAM.
A rating of 73 on 4 tyres would give a MAM of 1460 kgs.
The authorities will use the tyre load ratings for the MAM

Take trailer empty to a weighbridge to get the exact unladen weight which we assume is 750 kgs at the moment so with a MAM of 1460 it can then be loaded with a max load/horse of 710 kgs

Sorry ROG, another question!

Tyres with a load rating of 73 are all car tyres it would seem. I assume there are no issues running car tyres on a trailer?

Thanks again!

 

[ROG]

Tyres with a load rating of 73 are all car tyres it would seem. I assume there are no issues running car tyres on a trailer?

I know of no reason, safety or legal, as to why they cannot be used

I thought trailer wheels were usually smaller than car wheels??????????

 

[Scott]

I know of no reason, safety or legal, as to why they cannot be used

I thought trailer wheels were usually smaller than car wheels??????????

I can't find any reason as to why you couldn't either! The wheels on the trailer are 13". I've found some 155/65/R13 73T tyres. I can't remember exactly what size the trailer had on it so i've asked the owner to check!

 

[Scott]

OK, the tyres on the trailer are currently 155R13C which equates to 155/80/R13 73T in car size.

 

[ROG]

OK, the tyres on the trailer are currently 155R13C which equates to 155/80/R13 73T in car size.

If the tyres fit the wheels then take them to a tyre fitter to have them fitted

If there are any issues the tyre fitter will point them out and will refuse to fit them if illegal or unsafe

 

[ROG]

If the tyres fit the wheels then take them to a tyre fitter to have them fitted

If there are any issues the tyre fitter will point them out and will refuse to fit them if illegal or unsafe

UPDATE - I called National Tyres

there are VAN and CAR tyres

VAN tyres with the correct load rating should be used for a trailer

VAN tyres are stronger

 

[Scott]

UPDATE - I called National Tyres

there are VAN and CAR tyres

VAN tyres with the correct load rating should be used for a trailer

VAN tyres are stronger

Should or have to buy law? I think finding 73 rated Van tyres would be impossible.

 

[ROG]

OK, the tyres on the trailer are currently 155R13C which equates to 155/80/R13 73T in car size.

http://www.trailertek.com/acatalog/13_inch_tyres.html

Any help?

 

[Scott]

I still can't find any info on this. There aren't any 73 load rated tyres in the correct size for van type tyres.

But there are for car tyres. 73 load rating on a car tyre is the same rating as a Trailer or van tyre too, so they take exactly the same weight etc. All the law refers to is the tread depths and not mixing tyres etc.

 

[ROG]

I still can't find any info on this. There aren't any 73 load rated tyres in the correct size for van type tyres.

But there are for car tyres. 73 load rating on a car tyre is the same rating as a Trailer or van tyre too, so they take exactly the same weight etc. All the law refers to is the tread depths and not mixing tyres etc.

I was informed by the tyre man at ATS and National Tyres is that trailers should have the van tye tyre as they are stronger being a higher ply rate

Cannot help any further so perhaps contacting a tyre fitting company like I did might help - bet their databases are full of various tyres

 

[ROG]

Doing the B+E test by yourself thread
Might interest one or two .....

 

[rockysmum]

If there are any issues the tyre fitter will point them out and will refuse to fit them if illegal or unsafe

This only applies if the tyre company actually understand trailers themselves.

I had tyres fitted to my trailer years ago by a large national company. When I replaced them a few years later the fitter was shocked. He also believes that van tyres must be used and I had been driving around on car tyres.

His explanation was the walls were stronger and also the pressures in the trailer tyres were higher than a car would normally use.

The load rating on a 73 tyre would barely cover the weight of the trailer and the horse. When considering horse trailers you have to think what would happen if the horse moves. A half tonne horse throwing a wobbler on the motorway could put most of the weight on one tyre. I can understand caravan owners pushing the limits on tyres, their load doesn't move.

My thoughts on travelling horses is always stay well within the limits. That includes the towing weight of the vehicle. I have a tonne to play with between the max load for my trailer and the capacity for my Landy, I wouldn't want any less.

 

[ROG]

The load rating on a 73 tyre would barely cover the weight of the trailer and the horse.

The problem here is that the unplated trailer needs to conform to B licence towing and having 4 tyres with a 73 rating is the highest it can go to

 

[rockysmum]

The problem here is that the unplated trailer needs to conform to B licence towing and having 4 tyres with a 73 rating is the highest it can go to

Then they need to take the test. Pushing safety limits to get round the law is just silly. I cringe every time I read the posts on here.

Get them all down to your trailer school You are too nice sometimes

 

[ROG]

Then they need to take the test. Pushing safety limits to get round the law is just silly. I cringe every time I read the posts on here.

Get them all down to your trailer school You are too nice sometimes

I am unemployed so deffo do not have a training school !!

I agree with you to a point but there are trailers specifically made with tyres that match up to 3500 for a 3500 plated weight

What is important is having the right strength of tyres (PLY RATE) and if the right tyres cannot be found then it should not be done

I thought car tyres would be ok but after contacting tyre people who know more than me it seems they are not - safely not but legally ok