Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[mickey]

Hello Rog

I am new to this as I have not bought a towing vehicle before. I'm looking at possibly getting a Freelander 2.
I've tried to work the figures out as best I can from your guide. It would be a freelander 2007 onwards, diesel manual.

I have B+E pre-'97 license
Unladen vehicle weight = 1770kg
GVW = 2505kg?
GTW = 2000kg
MAM = 2700kg (Ifor Williams 510)
Trailer Weight = 1000kg

Assuming I wish to transport one 600kg horse plus it's tack and rugs, is this vehicle capable of towing to my requirements? I am presuming that 2 x 600kg horses are way off the mark!

Any help you can give me in my ignorance, would be greatly appreciated.
Sam.

 

[ROG]

Hello Rog

I am new to this as I have not bought a towing vehicle before. I'm looking at possibly getting a Freelander 2.
I've tried to work the figures out as best I can from your guide. It would be a freelander 2007 onwards, diesel manual.

I have B+E pre-'97 license
Unladen vehicle weight = 1770kg
GVW = 2505kg?
GTW = 2000kg
MAM = 2700kg (Ifor Williams 510)
Trailer Weight = 1000kg

Assuming I wish to transport one 600kg horse plus it's tack and rugs, is this vehicle capable of towing to my requirements? I am presuming that 2 x 600kg horses are way off the mark!

I will assume that the GTW should be towing capacity of 2000
The GTW would be 4505 (2505+2000=4505)

With 2000 towing capacity and 2700 MAM the lower of those two is used = 2000

2000 minus the 1000 trailer weight = 1000 for the load/horses

2x600 horses = 1200 so too much


INFO -
For B only licence towing the maximum plated trailer MAM would be 995 kgs which is of no use for any horse trailer

 

[mickey]

Thanks very much.

So I am right in thinking that using the above mentioned trailer and car, I should be able to tow one 600kg horse, plus, let's say 200kg equipment if I want to be over the top! This would still be legal?

As an aside, can you recommend a 4x4 that you would say is excellent for towing? I'm starting to look at other makes/models in case I decide I need something that can tow 2 horses..............

Many thanks

 

[ROG]

Thanks very much.

So I am right in thinking that using the above mentioned trailer and car, I should be able to tow one 600kg horse, plus, let's say 200kg equipment if I want to be over the top! This would still be legal?

As an aside, can you recommend a 4x4 that you would say is excellent for towing? I'm starting to look at other makes/models in case I decide I need something that can tow 2 horses..............

Many thanks

I know nothing about different vehicles only the weight/licence issues but the last link in my signature below might be useful

800 kg loaded into the trailer would leave 200 kg spare

 

[Sportshorseindisguis]

Hi Rog

I wonder if you may be able to comment on the below vehicle please- I'm afraid the information is a little unclear but hopefully it will be enough.....

1) licence B only
2) unladen vehicle weight 1800KG, short wheel base ford transit
3) GVW 2800kg
4) GTW 3500kg
5) 1000kg (trailer is a outdoor bar facility rather than your usual horse trailer queries!)
6) unladen trailer weight 850kg and 1000kg loaded


Sorry we're not very clear, there has been much discussion and we're none the wiser!

Look forward to hearing from you thank you for your help

 

[ROG]

Hi Rog

I wonder if you may be able to comment on the below vehicle please- I'm afraid the information is a little unclear but hopefully it will be enough.....

1) licence B only
2) unladen vehicle weight 1800KG, short wheel base ford transit
3) GVW 2800kg
4) GTW 3500kg
5) 1000kg (trailer is a outdoor bar facility rather than your usual horse trailer queries!)
6) unladen trailer weight 850kg and 1000kg loaded


Sorry we're not very clear, there has been much discussion and we're none the wiser!

Look forward to hearing from you thank you for your help

GVW 2800 + MAM 1000 = 3800 which is 300 above the limit for B licence towing

I know those figures from the Transit forum and if I remember correctly the transit handbook and/or V5 keepers document states that the maximum towing capacity is 700 kgs so even if the trailer is at 850 then it has exceeded that limit !

Get a trailer with a plated MAM of 700 max and then all will be legal for the B towing driver and the vehicle


ADD ....
With a B+E licence or under B+E learner rules
If the transit does not state a max towing limit of 700 kgs then the GTW can be used which means that the driver can have the van loaded to 2500 and the trailer loaded to 1000

With only a B licence
If the transit does not state a max towing limit of 700 kgs then the GTW can be used which means that the driver can have the van loaded to 2500 and the trailer loaded to 1000 BUT the transit would need to be down plated from 2800 to 2500 GVW which in turn means that instead of a 1000 payload 2800-1800=1000 it would have a 700 max payload 2500-1800=700 either with or without the trailer

 

[Sportshorseindisguis]

Oh dear- Thank you for the clarity, we were going round in circles at the office!

Great having your help and advice on hand, many thanks again Rog

 

[ROG]

Oh dear- Thank you for the clarity, we were going round in circles at the office!

Great having your help and advice on hand, many thanks again Rog

If the trailer can be lightened to 700 when empty and then loaded on site with goods from the van then that could work if it has been made by a manufacturer who is still in business and is willing to down plate it from 1000 to 700

 

[km-j]

Thanks ROG for all you help, I'll be back soon for some more towing advice. Just to say to members that I passed my B&E test today with 'advancedlgv.com' in Hixon (Stafford). Absolutely brilliant and would recommend that this is a must!!!
Kelly

 

[ROG]

I passed my B&E test today

 

[tanyajade]

Oh dear I never thought of any legal implications regarding towing a horse trailer!
So, I passed my test in 2003. I'd like a double horse trailer. What on earth are my options? Which trailer which car?
Thanks

 

[ROG]

Oh dear I never thought of any legal implications regarding towing a horse trailer!
So, I passed my test in 2003. I'd like a double horse trailer. What on earth are my options? Which trailer which car?
Thanks

If you want to tow 2 average sized horses then you will need B+E

 

[1abs]

New poster here!

I havent got all the figures on me but..

On a B licence, would a 1991 Volvo 940 1986cc auto legally tow an Ifor Williams HB401? Trailer was manufactured in 2000.

 

[ROG]

New poster here!

I havent got all the figures on me but..

On a B licence, would a 1991 Volvo 940 1986cc auto legally tow an Ifor Williams HB401? Trailer was manufactured in 2000.

Please find the figures for the vehicle which will be on the V5 or on a plate on the vehicle usually under the bonnet or hiden in a door frame - I need the top two figures on the plate please

More than likely the trailer will need down plating

I reckon you might be in luck for this to work on a B licence

 

[tanyajade]

If you want to tow 2 average sized horses then you will need B+E

Thank you...

Or a light trailer (750kg and lighter) Is that right? As long as the trailer and horses, don't outweigh my vehicle...and the combined weight of everything is under 3500kg? Have I understood that right? x

 

[ROG]

Thank you...

Or a light trailer (750kg and lighter) Is that right? As long as the trailer and horses, don't outweigh my vehicle...and the combined weight of everything is under 3500kg? Have I understood that right? x

Any trailer not more than 750 kgs plated MAM (not actual weight) does not need B+E

The trailer not being heavier than vehicle rule was revoked on 19/01/2013

If by combined weight you mean vehicle GVW + trailer plated MAM then yes but if you mean actual weight then no

 

[tanyajade]

Thanks a lot.
I've also seen on the internet, that as a B,licence holder, you automatically get a provisional B+E licence. Which means I could tow a 2 horse trailer, all in all exceeding the 3500kg, as long as I display L plates, and have someone with the B+E licence with me in the car? Is that right? x

 

[ROG]

Thanks a lot.
I've also seen on the internet, that as a B,licence holder, you automatically get a provisional B+E licence. Which means I could tow a 2 horse trailer, all in all exceeding the 3500kg, as long as I display L plates, and have someone with the B+E licence with me in the car? Is that right? x

yes

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner

 

[tanyajade]

Thank you, that may be the best way around it. Nowfor this B+E learner insurance, bet that'll cost something! x

 

[ROG]

Thank you, that may be the best way around it. Nowfor this B+E learner insurance, bet that'll cost something! x

Inform insurer and they say thanks for informing us - thats it no extra cost for most I have spoken to

 

[tanyajade]

Thank you Rog, you are the MAN ! x

 

[1abs]

New poster here!

I havent got all the figures on me but..

On a B licence, would a 1991 Volvo 940 1986cc auto legally tow an Ifor Williams HB401? Trailer was manufactured in 2000.

0570515V
YV1945277M2021977

1950kg

1- 0910kg
2-1070kg

(taken from the plate under my bonnet)

 

[ROG]

1950kg

1- 0910kg
2-1070kg

(taken from the plate under my bonnet)

1950 is the GVW of the Volvo

No idea what the towing capacity could be though as no GTW figure is listed - maybe the towing capacity or GTW is on the V5 document ???

Max trailer plated MAM is 1550 for a 1950 GVW regarding B licence towing

 

[ROG]

I found a thread on the Volvo forum in regards to towing with a 940 = http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=83125

 

[1abs]

I found a thread on the Volvo forum in regards to towing with a 940 = http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=83125

Thanks ROG will take a look, looking at the V5 now and under vehicle details it doesn't say anything about weights etc

 

[ROG]

Thanks ROG will take a look, looking at the V5 now and under vehicle details it doesn't say anything about weights etc

you might get more weights if you join that forum and ask then as they seem to know their stuff for volvo

 

[Dexydoodle]

Ok maybe a random question abd probably won't work but im hoping to get myself a little surfbus (something like a vw t4 so basically a short wb van) and was wondering whether it is possible (legally and practically) to tow with that kind of vehicle or whether im in cloud cuckoo land for thinking I can findawnway around buying a 4 x4! (Will need to do my trailer test either way)

 

[ROG]

Ok maybe a random question abd probably won't work but im hoping to get myself a little surfbus (something like a vw t4 so basically a short wb van) and was wondering whether it is possible (legally and practically) to tow with that kind of vehicle or whether im in cloud cuckoo land for thinking I can findawnway around buying a 4 x4! (Will need to do my trailer test either way)

http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=100116

 

[Dexydoodle]

This is not good I don't understand a word of that! So roughly 2000kg fully laden or am i totally confused? How likely is that with trailer plus 500kg horse. And do u have to take into account petrol and whatnot still like for a lorry?

 

[ROG]

This is not good I don't understand a word of that! So roughly 2000kg fully laden or am i totally confused? How likely is that with trailer plus 500kg horse. And do u have to take into account petrol and whatnot still like for a lorry?

If the vwt4 2000 towing capacity is correct and your trailer MAM is at least 2000 then the empty weight of your trailer plus the load that is in it must not exceed 2000 kgs

If the trailer MAM is less than 2000 then the lower trailer MAM figure is the maximum and not the 2000 towing capacity

fuel etc goes in the vehicle so that comes under the vehicle GVW not the trailer MAM