Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[ROG]

Hi rog could do with a bit of help please saw in one of ur older post that you could do a test with a b licence set up is that still right saw this https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/car-trailer-practical-test and didn't know if it had altered was thinking of going with my set up and doing test then if I fail drive off and keep rebooking till i do currently have a 403 down plated trailer with a passat estate . Thanks x

Yes you can still do it with a B licence towing set up if the vehicle and trailer comply with the test rules BUT from 15 Nov the trailer will need to be loaded with a minimum type of load as specified in that link so - can you get something like a 600kg water IBC or sand bags and can your trailer take that weight ??

 

[Gryfiss]

Thanks rog yep I have enough room how many gallons of water would that work out to be quite a few I'm guessing :/

 

[Gryfiss]

Also is there any 4 wheel drives u can recommend for b licence weighing under 2080 towing ability of 1420 which are under 3yrs old I'm really struggling now auto trader don't put all the spec and dimension on !!

 

[ROG]

Thanks rog yep I have enough room how many gallons of water would that work out to be quite a few I'm guessing :/

Not sure in gallons but if you get hold of a 600 kgs IBC and fill it then that will do
Cannot use a 1000kgs and fill it to 600 because the IBC used must be filled to almost capacity to stop the sloshing effect

600 kgs of Sandbags can be used but each bag must have a weight stamp on it and I cannot find such on the internet

 

[coffeeandabagel]

Hi thanks Rog for your previous help. I had the horses weighed today and one is 701kg and the other 675kg - based on the calculations you did I have just about 200kg margin. Umm, not much!

 

[ROG]

Hi thanks Rog for your previous help. I had the horses weighed today and one is 701kg and the other 675kg - based on the calculations you did I have just about 200kg margin. Umm, not much!

That is a good margin - look at it another way - its 10% of a 2000 limit

 

[tiggipop]

apologies - have been trying to find the correct numbers to fill in but am failing !

any chance you could help fill in the gaps?

towing vehicle will be bmw x5 (year 2005) model X5 sport D auto. I have the log book and can see that total permissible towable mass - braked is 2700kg

trailer is ifor Williams hb510r - mam 2700kg unladen 1000kg

1 my license is b + e
2 unladen empty weight of car ?
3 GVW of car (is this max permissible mass? ) 2695
4 GTW of car (is this the braked figure?) 2700
5 plated MAM of trailer 2700
6 unladen weight of trailer 1000



will only be travelling one of the big horses at a time and guess the weight will be around 700kg
would it be ok to travel 2 of the smaller ones at around 600kg each?

thankyou

 

[ROG]

apologies - have been trying to find the correct numbers to fill in but am failing !

any chance you could help fill in the gaps?

towing vehicle will be bmw x5 (year 2005) model X5 sport D auto. I have the log book and can see that total permissible towable mass - braked is 2700kg

trailer is ifor Williams hb510r - mam 2700kg unladen 1000kg

1 my license is b + e
2 unladen empty weight of car ?
3 GVW of car (is this max permissible mass? ) 2695
4 GTW of car (is this the braked figure?) 2700
5 plated MAM of trailer 2700
6 unladen weight of trailer 1000



will only be travelling one of the big horses at a time and guess the weight will be around 700kg
would it be ok to travel 2 of the smaller ones at around 600kg each?

thankyou

GVW is the max the car can be when fully loaded
GTW is the max actual weight of both car and trailer when weighed together

I cannot see 2700 being the GTW but I reckon it might be the max towing capacity as stated in the logbook

GVW + towing capacity usually = GTW so look at plate on car and I'll bet it says 5395


You can load 1700 into the trailer and be legal for weight and you B+E licence

 

[ROG]

I also noticed that the max towing capacity is 2700 and the trailer MAM is also 2700 so in your case there is no issue about using the lower of the two figures

Had your trailer been 3500 MAM then the 2700 towing limit would be the figure to use so 1700 for trailer load

Had the trailer MAM been 2300 then that would be the figure to use so 1300 for trailer load

 

[tiggipop]

Thankyou

 

[PeggyPatch]

Hi Rog, looking into possibly towing a small trailer possibly a bateson derby at around 675kg or an ifor hb403 for 1 pony who weighs 450-500kg with a kia ceed cdr diesel with a curb weight of 1468kg. Is that possible or not? Also what license do you need to tow with? I have every plans of having lessons but wanted to know if id need to pass a test as well. Thanks

 

[ROG]

Hi Rog, looking into possibly towing a small trailer possibly a bateson derby at around 675kg or an ifor hb403 for 1 pony who weighs 450-500kg with a kia ceed cdr diesel with a curb weight of 1468kg. Is that possible or not? Also what license do you need to tow with? I have every plans of having lessons but wanted to know if id need to pass a test as well. Thanks

http://www.kiaownersclub.co.uk/models/ceed/cee_d_technical_data.asp
The 1.6L diesel auto is 1468 kerb weight so I assume that is your model with a GVW of 1820 and a towing capacity of 1400 but your handbook and plate on vehicle will confirm that

For B licence towing if it is those specs above then you can have HB401/403 with a MAM of 1600 and empty weight of about 800

1600 + 1820 = 3420 which is under the 3500 limit

As the max towing limit is 1400 and 200 less than the 1600 MAM of the trailer then the 1400 is the figure used

1400 less 800 = 600 so you can load 600 into that particular trailer

The change in law on 19/01/3013 makes things much easier now because the extra rule for towing a trailer over 750 kgs MAM on a B licence is now -
Vehicle GVW added to trailer MAM must not total more than 3500 kgs

The kerb weigh rule was revoked on 19/01/2013

 

[PeggyPatch]

Great thank you for all your help.

If i got a bateson Derby which can tow two horses with an unlaiden weight of 675kg and a max gross weight of 1700kg. Would I have to get it's plate changed? I'm only planning to take my pony in it and really don't understand the plating requirements.

Thanks again for all your help this is so useful

 

[ROG]

Great thank you for all your help.

If i got a bateson Derby which can tow two horses with an unlaiden weight of 675kg and a max gross weight of 1700kg. Would I have to get it's plate changed? I'm only planning to take my pony in it and really don't understand the plating requirements.

Thanks again for all your help this is so useful

1700 + 1820 = 3520 which is 20 over so the trailer would need to be down plated to a max of 1680

You still have the 1400 limit so 1400 - 675 = 725 so the total weight put into the trailer would be 725

All this is still assuming the GVW and towing capacity figures are correct for your vehicle

 

[PeggyPatch]

Yes those figures are correct for the car.

Thank you for all your help on this. It's been really useful as I have tried to work it out previously myself but really wanted to make sure I was on the right lines.

Thanks

 

[ROG]

For those wondering ....

Under the previous 2013 rules for B licence towing there was a rule where the trailer MAM could not be more than the vehicle kerb weight but that was revoked for all B licence holders on 19/01/2013

Under the old rules a 1600 MAM trailer would need to be down plated for a vehicle with a kerb of 1468 but not now

The EU parliament made this happen and in most cases like the above a max towing capacity prevents the trailer from being more than kerb weight

This leaves the one extra rule for the B licence towing of a trailer where the MAM is over 750 kgs ...
Vehicle GVW added to trailer MAM must not total more than 3500 kgs

GVW and MAM mean the same thing - the max they can legally weigh when fully loaded

 

[ROG]

INTERESTING & SILLY according to me and the DSA ....

From January 2014 those with a manual B licence can take an auto test and have that as manual EXCEPT B+E !!

Apparently the EU directive covers all C and D categories but its up to the UK Govt (DfT) re B+E

NI already gives B+E manual for passing B+E auto if the driver already has manual B so that proves it is not an EU thing in regards to B+E

Emailed my MP to see why this is

PS - if got manual B and then pass C1 auto and C1+E auto it will give the driver C1, C1+E and B+E manual

 

[Moomin499ck]

Wonder if you could help me also? Just looking to get a new trailer so wanted to check.

1 - B
2 - Unsure still trying to find out - its a Honda CRV SE Sport (2003) Petrol
3 - 1930kg (not too sure about this - what does it mean? Max load of vehicle?)
4 - 1500kg
5 - 1600kg
6 - 767kg (Ifor 403)

I think i'm 30kg over the legal limit.

 

[ROG]

Wonder if you could help me also? Just looking to get a new trailer so wanted to check.

1 - B
2 - Unsure still trying to find out - its a Honda CRV SE Sport (2003) Petrol
3 - 1930kg (not too sure about this - what does it mean? Max load of vehicle?)
4 - 1500kg
5 - 1600kg
6 - 767kg (Ifor 403)

I think i'm 30kg over the legal limit.

The specs I found for your vehicle were 1940 kgs GVW - GVW means the max weight it can legally be when fully loaded - MAM for the trailer means the same thing

You are correct - it is 30 or 40 kgs too much for B licence towing but easy to remedy by calling Ifor Williams who will then direct you to your nearest dealer for down plating at little or no cost

Personally I would down plate to 1500 as that is the max actual weight your vehicle can tow so no point in having a MAM over that - but 1550 would be ok as long as you do not exceed the 1500 limit when its loaded

 

[Moomin499ck]

Thank you so much! Trying to get a trailer so that I can legally tow instead of taking my dad and being a learner when im better at it that him is driving me mad!

I'm buying the trailer from iforwilliams so will make sure that it get downgraded to 1500kg with horse in the trailer would be 1267kg approx

 

[ROG]

Thank you so much! Trying to get a trailer so that I can legally tow instead of taking my dad and being a learner when im better at it that him is driving me mad!

I'm buying the trailer from iforwilliams so will make sure that it get downgraded to 1500kg with horse in the trailer would be 1267kg approx

If its a new trailer then contact ifor asap to check that they have 1500 as an option for it because trailers made recently come under the new rules on plating options

Ifor told me they usually designate a few MAM options when it made such as 1600 1500 1400 1300 so it can then be up or down plated to any of those

 

[claire_p2001]

Hi ROG can a freelander 2 tow 1 horse 500kgs? What would max weight of trailer we could have be? Thanks

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG can a freelander 2 tow 1 horse 500kgs? What would max weight of trailer we could have be? Thanks

Max towing capacity for a Freelander 2 is 2000 kgs

GVW is 2505

For B licence towing its a non starter

For B+E licence towing virtually any trailer will be ok for what you need

 

[Lou_Lou123]

Hi I'm in the process of buying a 4x4 to tow my trailer and wonder if this combination will work. I am looking at a mitsubishi shogun sport, which I know has less capacity than a shogun but wondered if this would still be safe. The trailer I have is a westfalia and it has two plates so a little confusing especially as one of them is in German!

I would need -
1 - What licence they hold - B + E
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle 1915kg (found this online as minimum kerb weight?)
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle 2510kg
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle 2800kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres this is where i got confused, one plate says 2000kg, and axle load of 1-2000kg (not sure what dash means) the other plate says nose weight of 150kg (well its a diagram that implies that) then 2250 to 3500kg, but not sure what that is?
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer " Have never weighed it empty and no idea what model it is as it is fairly old but has had a recent refurb (new floor, partition, electrics etc) it has no front ramp which i always assume means it cant be that heavy?

Any advice appreciated as I have just tried to calculate what I can tow and from what I have read the weight of the trailer should not exceed 85% of the unladen weight of the towing vehicle which is only 1627kg, that doesn't sound much to me?

Thanks

Lou

 

[ROG]

Hi I'm in the process of buying a 4x4 to tow my trailer and wonder if this combination will work. I am looking at a mitsubishi shogun sport, which I know has less capacity than a shogun but wondered if this would still be safe. The trailer I have is a westfalia and it has two plates so a little confusing especially as one of them is in German!

I would need -
1 - What licence they hold - B + E
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle 1915kg (found this online as minimum kerb weight?)
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle 2510kg
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle 2800kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres this is where i got confused, one plate says 2000kg, and axle load of 1-2000kg (not sure what dash means) the other plate says nose weight of 150kg (well its a diagram that implies that) then 2250 to 3500kg, but not sure what that is?
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer " Have never weighed it empty and no idea what model it is as it is fairly old but has had a recent refurb (new floor, partition, electrics etc) it has no front ramp which i always assume means it cant be that heavy?

Any advice appreciated as I have just tried to calculate what I can tow and from what I have read the weight of the trailer should not exceed 85% of the unladen weight of the towing vehicle which is only 1627kg, that doesn't sound much to me?

Thanks

Lou

Firstly the 85% thing is only for caravans so we can ignore that

You have a B+E so that makes thing easy

Your max towing capacity is 2800 kgs
The MAM of the trailer seems to be 2000 if that is on the silver plate riveted to the frame? - is it in English?

If 2000 is the trailer MAM then that is lower than the 2800 towing capacity so we use 2000 as the max when loaded

If the trailer weighs say 750 empty then you can load 1250 into the trailer 750+1250=2000

IS THIS YOUR TRAILER? - http://heavycherry.com/machineinfo/...__used_2000_kg-1988-trailer-cattle_truck.html
If not that one then is it one shown on the right of that page?

 

[Lou_Lou123]

It looks more like this one http://heavycherry.com/machineinfo/thiel/-explorer-2010-trailer-cattle_truck.html

It used to have the lift up flap thing above the ramp but we took that off as it didn't lift high enough to load the horses!

 

[Lou_Lou123]

On closer inspection it looks exactly like that one, with the windows, handles, shape of door etc (except door is on other side) I also wonder if the unladen weight might be different as when we got it it had nothing inside and we added the partitions when we had it refurbed.

Thanks for your time

 

[ROG]

It looks more like this one http://heavycherry.com/machineinfo/thiel/-explorer-2010-trailer-cattle_truck.html

It used to have the lift up flap thing above the ramp but we took that off as it didn't lift high enough to load the horses!

On closer inspection it looks exactly like that one, with the windows, handles, shape of door etc (except door is on other side) I also wonder if the unladen weight might be different as when we got it it had nothing inside and we added the partitions when we had it refurbed.

Thanks for your time

That is 2400 MAM but your plate says 2000 so I am sceptical and would go by 2000

Take trailer to weighbridge empty and weigh it to get current unladen weight

Its possible that the trailer could be uprated to 3500 because of the 2250 to 3500 plate but I am not certain of that because even if you posted a pic of that plate I cannot read German !

 

[Lou_Lou123]

I did try to post a picture of the two plates as I am not sure which one is correct, the english one is the one that says 2250 to 3000, but the pic is on my phone and have no idea how to post that to forum! Thanks for you help... looks like a trip to the weigh bridge is in order!

 

[Lou_Lou123]

Here is the first plate

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153498040240646&set=pcb.10153498040400646&type=1&theater

and the second one

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153498039585646&set=pcb.10153498040400646&type=1&theater