Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[ROG]

Hi ROG
Can you please help me work out if this car will be suitable to tow
1 B+E
2 1585 unladed
3 2185 GVM
4 2000 braked
5 1600 Max load
6 675 unladed

The car is an Audi Q3 2.0 Quattro i want to two 2 ponies weighing 900kg

Thanks

I assume number 5 is the MAM of the trailer and not its max load because max load refers to the max that can be put in the empty trailer???

Using the assumption above then the max the trailer can be loaded with is 925 kgs which is very close to the weight you want to load in it so when loaded you will need to go to a weighbridge to confirm the trailer is not over 1600 kgs

The vehicle will easily be capable of towing 1600 with 400 to spare

 

[SAMMI-J]

Thanks for the speedy response ROG
Would I be better getting a trailer with a MAM of 1700 / 1800?

I'm also wondering if I would be able to get the Q3 model down that can tow 1800 ( cheaper ins and to run). The max weight I would have in the trailer would've around 1600.

 

[ROG]

Thanks for the speedy response ROG
Would I be better getting a trailer with a MAM of 1700 / 1800?

I'm also wondering if I would be able to get the Q3 model down that can tow 1800 ( cheaper ins and to run). The max weight I would have in the trailer would've around 1600.

A trailer where the payload is higher would be better but usually the higher the MAM the higher the empty weight so make sure you take the empty weight from the MAM weight to get the max payload

Having a vehicle with a lower towing capacity might not work with a heavier trailer

 

[ROG]

http://www.horsetrailersales.co.uk/NewIforHB506.asp
This example shows a trailer with an empty weight of 920 kgs and a MAM of 2600 kgs
With a vehicle having a 2000 towing capacity that means you cold load 1080 in it (2000-920=1080)

http://www.horsetrailersales.co.uk/NewBatesonDerby.asp
This one has an empty weight of 675 and a MAM of 1700 so with a towing capacity of 1800 you can load 1025 into it (1700-675=1025)

I find this particular site very informative http://www.horsetrailersales.co.uk/ so perhaps spending some time looking at the unladen and MAM weights of trailers on it might give you other options

You cannot always believe the unladen weights so a trip to a weighbridge when empty is always a good idea

 

[SAMMI-J]

Thanks ROG I have been looking at this site quite a lot trying to figure out what works and what doesn't lol!

So would the below options be feasible then;
1 B+E
2 GVW 2135
3 Max Tow 1800
4 Unladen 1535
5 MAM 1700
6 Unladen 657
leaving 1025 to load (ponies no more than 900)

OR

1 B+E
2 GVW 2135
3 Max Tow 1800
4 Unladen 1535
5 MAM 2000
6 Unladen 830
leaving 970 to load (ponies no more than 900)

OR

1 B+E
2 GVW 2135
3 Max Tow 1800
4 Unladen 1535
5 MAM 1750
6 Unladen 820
leaving 930 to load (ponies no more than 900)

Are you allowed to pull a trailer with a higher MAM than you cars towing capacity if it is carrying less than the towing capacity? Or does the trailer need to be down plated?

 

[ROG]

So would the below options be feasible then;
1 B+E
2 GVW 2135
3 Max Tow 1800
4 Unladen 1535
5 MAM 1700
6 Unladen 657
leaving 1025 to load (ponies no more than 900)
1700-657=1043 for ponies/load



1 B+E
2 GVW 2135
3 Max Tow 1800
4 Unladen 1535
5 MAM 2000
6 Unladen 830
leaving 970 to load (ponies no more than 900)
Spot on

1 B+E
2 GVW 2135
3 Max Tow 1800
4 Unladen 1535
5 MAM 1750
6 Unladen 820
leaving 930 to load (ponies no more than 900)
Spot on again


Are you allowed to pull a trailer with a higher MAM than you cars towing capacity if it is carrying less than the towing capacity? Or does the trailer need to be down plated?
MYTH - there is no law or rule which states the vehicle towing capacity must be able to cope with the MAM of a trailer

 

[SAMMI-J]

Excellent. Thanks for all your help ROG. Looks like 1800 tow capacity will be fine.
Now just need to find a book a B + E course and test on the Wirral

 

[ROG]

Excellent. Thanks for all your help ROG. Looks like 1800 tow capacity will be fine.
Now just need to find a book a B + E course and test on the Wirral

Try a LGV training company that also does B+E - I know this one has a great rep but its a little jaunt - http://www.chevrontraining.co.uk/catbe.html

With less weight - one horse 400 to 600 kgs - you could get away with towing on your B licence but not with two horses weighing 900 kgs total

 

[coen]

Hi Rog,
i have the HB511 ordered and my trailers lessons arranged but having done a couple of searches have become a bit concerned about snaking ect.
Would regularly drive on M25 so lots of lorries around.

Are the anti snake bars effective? Or would the new ifor trailers have these sort of safety measures as standard?
E.g
http://www.barlowtrailers.co.uk/Bulldog_200Q_Stabiliser

 

[ROG]

Hi Rog,
i have the HB511 ordered and my trailers lessons arranged but having done a couple of searches have become a bit concerned about snaking ect.
Would regularly drive on M25 so lots of lorries around.

Are the anti snake bars effective? Or would the new ifor trailers have these sort of safety measures as standard?
E.g
http://www.barlowtrailers.co.uk/Bulldog_200Q_Stabiliser

I have heard good things about the anti-snaking but do not think trailers have them as standard - perhaps it might be a good idea to see if the supplier can fit one before you get it

 

[lymeregis]

Hi!

Hoping to pick you brains! if you dont mind?

I have done my trailer test, phew! Lovely boyfriend has just put a towbar on his Nissan Navara 2007 truck and we are picking up a 2005 ifor williams 510 on saturday!!! woohooo!

Anyway, my point is, my current horse weighs say max 600kgs, do I have any spare towing weight to play around with to take a friend out to play as well?

Am pretty sure just my own horse is well within the safe towing limits?

thank you so much!

Karen

 

[ROG]

Hi!

Hoping to pick you brains! if you dont mind?

I have done my trailer test, phew! Lovely boyfriend has just put a towbar on his Nissan Navara 2007 truck and we are picking up a 2005 ifor williams 510 on saturday!!! woohooo!

Anyway, my point is, my current horse weighs say max 600kgs, do I have any spare towing weight to play around with to take a friend out to play as well?

Am pretty sure just my own horse is well within the safe towing limits?

thank you so much!

Karen

Depends what the towing capacity is for your particular model of Nissan Navara but with say a towing capacity of 2600 kgs and your trailer having a MAM of just under 2600 and an empty weight of 1000 kgs will mean you can load just under 1600 kgs into it

 

[lymeregis]

wow, that is much more than i thought spare! fantastic, thank you so much for your help, your a star!

muchly appreciated!

 

[ROG]

New rules for having some types of vehicles and all trailers laden for the test have now come into force - https://www.gov.uk/new-laden-testing-rules-for-driving-test-vehicles

This does affect the B+E

 

[Clannad48]

Hi ROG, hoping you can clarify something for me. I have searched various DOT web pages but can't get a definitive answer (it may just be me being senile though)

Situation - I have held a full driving license since 1974, and have been towing for some time now. My daughter has been driving for 4 years and now wishes to train for a towing entitlement on her license (she passed her test 4 years ago). now she only has an automatic license and I am having trouble finding a local training centre that has an automatic car for her to learn in. In the meantime I am hoping (dreading) to start teaching her the basics of towing until I can find a professional to train her.

My question:
She is already insured to drive my automatic car which I tow with - is she allowed to practice towing on the road with L plates - I'm not going to let her practice with the horse on board before anyone asks - with me supervising.

I realise that I will have to clear this with my insurance company but they are unable/unwilling to comment with regard to the legal aspect of her 'learning to tow'


Many thanks in anticipation

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG, hoping you can clarify something for me. I have searched various DOT web pages but can't get a definitive answer (it may just be me being senile though)

Situation - I have held a full driving license since 1977, and have been towing for some time now. My daughter has been driving for 4 years and now wishes to train for a towing entitlement on her license (she passed her test 4 years ago). now she only has an automatic license and I am having trouble finding a local training centre that has an automatic car for her to learn in. In the meantime I am hoping (dreading) to start teaching her the basics of towing until I can find a professional to train her.

My question:
She is already insured to drive my automatic car which I tow with - is she allowed to practice towing on the road with L plates - I'm not going to let her practice with the horse on board before anyone asks - with me supervising.

I realise that I will have to clear this with my insurance company but they are unable/unwilling to comment with regard to the legal aspect of her 'learning to tow'


Many thanks in anticipation

YOU = manual B+E licence
SHE/HER = auto B licence

YOU can supervise HER in an auto or manual B+E towing set up
L plates
Check ok with insurer
Loaded or empty
Motorways OK

SHE can take test in a manual B+E which will then give HER both B and B+E in manual

Finding a trainer who does B+E auto is very hard to find - what part of UK are you looking around?

 

[ROG]

http://www.mktowingcourses.co.uk/ claim to do B+E in auto

 

[Clannad48]

Thanks ROG - unfortunately she is restricted to an automatic car due to a previous injury to her left knee which restricts her movement in that leg and we were advised that she would not be able to get insurance for a manual car hence the automatic.

I have contacted a couple of companies but still searching. We are in South Bedfordshire.

 

[Clannad48]

Yay thanks - I'll give them a call tomorrow, I was dreading having to teach her myself - world war 3 would have occurred

 

[km-j]

These are my figures for a shogun 3.2 did (Swb)
1) BE
2) Unladen empty weight of towing vehicle - min kerb weight 1995
3) GVW of the towing vehicle - 2510
4) GTW and or towing capacity of vehicle 2800
5) Plated weight of trailer - 2340
6) Unladen weight of trailer - 905

 

[ROG]

These are my figures for a shogun 3.2 did (Swb)
1) BE
2) Unladen empty weight of towing vehicle - min kerb weight 1995
3) GVW of the towing vehicle - 2510
4) towing capacity of vehicle 2800
5) Plated weight of trailer - 2340
6) Unladen weight of trailer - 905

You can load 1435 into the trailer (2340-905=1435)

The lower figure of either the trailer MAM or the towing capacity is used then the unladen weight of the trailer is deducted to get the max weight which can be loaded into the trailer

As the GVW 2510 and the trailer MAM 2340 add up to more than 3500 (2510+2340=4850) then a B+E is required which you have

 

[MyDogIsAnIdiot]

Right, I suspect that I'm being dense, but I'm struggling to work out if I can tow. I want to only take one horse (15.2hh) of max weight 500kg. I don't think I can tow with this set-up, but advice would be good.

1 - B license (though can do B+E fi req)
2 - 1800kg
3 - 2400kg
4 - 2000kg
5 - 1025kg (Capacity - I think! It's a Bateson Derby)
6 - 675kg

 

[ROG]

Right, I suspect that I'm being dense, but I'm struggling to work out if I can tow. I want to only take one horse (15.2hh) of max weight 500kg. I don't think I can tow with this set-up, but advice would be good.

1 - B license (though can do B+E fi req)
2 - 1800kg
3 - 2400kg
4 - 2000kg
5 - 1025kg (Capacity - I think! It's a Bateson Derby)
6 - 675kg

Number 5 = 1700

You are right - you cannot use this set up as it is because the GVW 2400 plus MAM 1700 = 4100 which is 600 over the max 3500 limit for B licence towing

The max MAM the trailer can be is 1100 but if you managed to get Bateson to down plate it from 1700 to 1100 then it could only carry 425 kgs (1100-675=425)

Great trailer for B licence towing but the vehicle needs to one with a lower GVW

 

[MyDogIsAnIdiot]

Number 5 = 1700

You are right - you cannot use this set up as it is because the GVW 2400 plus MAM 1700 = 4100 which is 600 over the max 3500 limit for B licence towing

The max MAM the trailer can be is 1100 but if you managed to get Bateson to down plate it from 1700 to 1100 then it could only carry 425 kgs (1100-675=425)

Great trailer for B licence towing but the vehicle needs to one with a lower GVW

Ah well, looks like I'll be doing my trailer test then! Thank you

 

[ROG]

Ah well, looks like I'll be doing my trailer test then! Thank you

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner

The B+E test
No medical or theory test required
Read a number plate from a certain distance
VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions - usually 5
The next three can be in any order:-
VIDEO - Reversing Exercise - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
DSA REVERSING TEST AREA DIAGRAM
VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test

The trailer must now be loaded with 600 kgs of sand bags or a 1000 kgs water IBC for the test so most companies are now training with that weight in the trailer

Well explained here

DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos

This is interesting BUT NOT RECOMMENDED – a B licence towing set up can be presented for the B+E test but L plates must be used for the test. So you can train yourself, go to test by yourself, fit L plates, do the test, then, pass or fail, remove L plates and drive away by yourself.
DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS

 

[MyDogIsAnIdiot]

What do you think about http://www.crosshandstraining.com/ ? They're about 2 minutes away from me, but I've no idea if they're actually any good. Thank you so much for your help!

 

[ROG]

What do you think about http://www.crosshandstraining.com/ ? They're about 2 minutes away from me, but I've no idea if they're actually any good. Thank you so much for your help!

Good rep with LGV so it usually follows that the B+E will also be good as a bad rep with that part will reflect on the rest if not good

 

[HappyAl]

Hello,

I wonder if you can help? I have recently bought a 4x4 and now i am looking into buying a trailer. I only have a B licence and would like to know what the limitations on the future trailer would have to be, to make the set up legal, or if that's impossible and i need to do B+E.

Licence - B
Unladen weight of car - 2056kg (Kia Sorento, 2.5xe 2005)
Fully loaded weight ? Unknown (cannot find on get car specs)
2802kg - towing weight
Trailer - don't have yet but thinking 1000kg max unladen weight ?
Weight of horse - 450kg.

Thanks very much for any help....

 

[ROG]

Hello,

I wonder if you can help? I have recently bought a 4x4 and now i am looking into buying a trailer. I only have a B licence and would like to know what the limitations on the future trailer would have to be, to make the set up legal, or if that's impossible and i need to do B+E.

Licence - B
Unladen weight of car - 2056kg (Kia Sorento, 2.5xe 2005)
Fully loaded weight ? Unknown (cannot find on get car specs)
2802kg - towing weight
Trailer - don't have yet but thinking 1000kg max unladen weight ?
Weight of horse - 450kg.

Thanks very much for any help....

GVW of this 4x4 is likely to be around 2600 kgs which only leaves 900 kgs for the plated MAM of a trailer so its impossible to get a horse trailer for this vehicle on a B licence

You need a vehicle with a GVW no more than 2200 kgs to stand a chance of towing on a B licence

 

[HappyAl]

GVW of this 4x4 is likely to be around 2600 kgs which only leaves 900 kgs for the plated MAM of a trailer so its impossible to get a horse trailer for this vehicle on a B licence

You need a vehicle with a GVW no more than 2200 kgs to stand a chance of towing on a B licence

Thank you.

I've just ben told that the trailer is 700kg unladen and 2000kg laden weight.

Is the GVW the laden weight of car ? If so, i will try and find out..

Thanks very much Rog.