Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[Tayto]

Then a towbar can be fitted and you can tow with it

As it has a GVW of 2345 then B+E licence rules apply

Thank you very much!

 

[ROG]

Thank you very much!

http://www.caranddriver.com/photos-...di-quattro-towing-1964-volvo-544-photo-409577
is that one?

 

[Tayto]

Sorry for the delay - just noticed your reply.

No the car in that pic is a Q7 - mine is a coupe like the ones in these pics

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=A5+Coupe+3.0+TDI+245+Quattro+S+Line+2dr+S+Tronic+towing&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=_RnVUqr8LqTL0AX41IGYBA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=990&bih=487#q=A5+Coupe+3.0+TDI+245+Quattro+S+Line+2dr+S+Tronic+&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&tbm=isch

 

[mischamoo]

Hi ROG, I just wanted you to clarify for arguments sake so I can show this to my friend!

She is adamant that she can tow her horse in her car and trailer (on a B licence) because the combination weighs under 3.5 ton (she's only considered the trailer's unladen weight) I've told her she's illegal with that set up.

I've told her she needs to make sure that the trailer plated weight (NOT unladen), vehicle's weight and horse's weight does NOT total more than 3.5t and that she also needs to check that the trailer's plated weight is not more than the vehicle's weight.

AM I RIGHT?!!

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG, I just wanted you to clarify for arguments sake so I can show this to my friend!

She is adamant that she can tow her horse in her car and trailer (on a B licence) because the combination weighs under 3.5 ton (she's only considered the trailer's unladen weight) I've told her she's illegal with that set up.

I've told her she needs to make sure that the trailer plated weight (NOT unladen), vehicle's weight and horse's weight does NOT total more than 3.5t and that she also needs to check that the trailer's plated weight is not more than the vehicle's weight.

AM I RIGHT?!!

"also needs to check that the trailer's plated weight is not more than the vehicle's weight." - that bit was revoked a year ago

Now its simple for B licence towing.....

To tow a trailer over 750 kgs plated MAM on a B licence the one extra rule on top of the usual towing rules is ....

The vehicle plated GVW added to the trailer plated MAM must not total more than 3500 kgs

So you are right in saying its the plated weights which matter and not any other sort of weights in regards to licencing laws

 

[mischamoo]

"also needs to check that the trailer's plated weight is not more than the vehicle's weight." - that bit was revoked a year ago

Now its simple for B licence towing.....

To tow a trailer over 750 kgs plated MAM on a B licence the one extra rule on top of the usual towing rules is ....

The vehicle plated GVW added to the trailer plated MAM must not total more than 3500 kgs

So you are right in saying its the plated weights which matter and not any other sort of weights in regards to licencing laws

Thats much more simple, thank you ROG - I didnt realise they'd revoked that part of the towing law - must open up a few more options for B licence holders - could you direct me to which page on here has the other towing rules on so I can show her please?

 

[ROG]

Thats much more simple, thank you ROG - I didnt realise they'd revoked that part of the towing law - must open up a few more options for B licence holders - could you direct me to which page on here has the other towing rules on so I can show her please?

Post numbers 999 and 1000 in this thread have the info and examples

Suggest nobody reads the GOV / DVLA internet stuff on this because it is written in a very confusing way and at first glance it seems as though there are two sets of rules for B licence towing which is not correct as there is only one law for all B licence holders

 

[mischamoo]

Post numbers 999 and 1000 in this thread have the info and examples

Suggest nobody reads the GOV / DVLA internet stuff on this because it is written in a very confusing way and at first glance it seems as though there are two sets of rules for B licence towing which is not correct as there is only one law for all B licence holders

ROG, the revocation of that point from the towing laws, does that not make it quite unsafe to potentially tow a trailer that has a higher weight than the car you're driving if it simply is now just the combined plated weights of car and trailer are simply below 3.5t and that there's now no sticking point that the car must weigh more than the trailer?

 

[ROG]

ROG, the revocation of that point from the towing laws, does that not make it quite unsafe to potentially tow a trailer that has a higher weight than the car you're driving if it simply is now just the combined plated weights of car and trailer are simply below 3.5t and that there's now no sticking point that the car must weigh more than the trailer?

As that is quite often the case with those towing under B+E rules then its no more or less unsafe under B rules

Two examples

===============================

B+E towing
Vehicle
GVW 1900
Empty 1400
Towing capacity 1600

Trailer
MAM 2500
empty 500

Vehicle might be 1500 loaded with trailer 1600 loaded

===============================

B towing
Vehicle
GVW 1900
Empty 1400
Towing capacity 1600

Trailer
MAM 1600
empty 500

Vehicle might be 1500 loaded with trailer 1600 loaded

================================

As you can see the outcome is the same with only the trailer MAMs being different - the B one being 1600 so it conforms to the licencing laws

 

[mischamoo]

As that is quite often the case with those towing under B+E rules then its no more or less unsafe under B rules

Two examples

===============================

B+E towing
Vehicle
GVW 1900
Empty 1400
Towing capacity 1600

Trailer
MAM 2500
empty 500

Vehicle might be 1500 loaded with trailer 1600 loaded

===============================

B towing
Vehicle
GVW 1900
Empty 1400
Towing capacity 1600

Trailer
MAM 1600
empty 500

Vehicle might be 1500 loaded with trailer 1600 loaded

================================

As you can see the outcome is the same with only the trailer MAMs being different - the B one being 1600 so it conforms to the licencing laws

Ah yes good point, maybe just naively assumed that people with the b+e licence would automatically drive a large 4x4 where the likelihood of the car would weigh more than trailer as they've never had to worry about the restrictions on weight like the b licence holders had. Personal preference I see it quite unsafe to tow something that weighs more than the vehicle pulling it, no evidence to support this just my own mind working that the gravity of weights makes it more unstable??

 

[wench]

Rog - I was hoping you may be able to impart some of your knowledge!

I have a b+e liscence, and I am unsure of my trailer weight, the info plate has worn away as its that old. My horse weighs approx 400 kg (weigh tape puts her at just over).

I would like to be buy a car to pull my trailer, on a previous post, you mentioned something like a mondeo should do the trick. I'm not going large distances, and haven't got the money for 4x4.

How do the weights work out on the towing car? Would I need to get my trailer "plated" again?

I'm a bit confused and don't want to break the law. And before anyone says anything yes I plan to run my trailer over a weighbridge to see exactly what it weighs

 

[ROG]

Rog - I was hoping you may be able to impart some of your knowledge!

I have a b+e liscence, and I am unsure of my trailer weight, the info plate has worn away as its that old. My horse weighs approx 400 kg (weigh tape puts her at just over).

I would like to be buy a car to pull my trailer, on a previous post, you mentioned something like a mondeo should do the trick. I'm not going large distances, and haven't got the money for 4x4.

How do the weights work out on the towing car? Would I need to get my trailer "plated" again?

I'm a bit confused and don't want to break the law. And before anyone says anything yes I plan to run my trailer over a weighbridge to see exactly what it weighs

If the trailer manufacturer is still in business then they will be able to arrange a new plate if you give them the serial number off the trailer
If that is not an option then the authorities will go on the total of the tyre load ratings = if you have 4 trailer tyres each rated at 70 kgs then that will be a 2800 kg MAM for example

On every vehicle there is a weight plate hidden under the bonnet or inside a door frame with 4 weights on it
Top figure is the GVW and the second is the GTW
Take GVW from GTW and in the majority of cases that will be the towing capacity

Chances are that your trailer will actually weigh about 900 empty so adding 500 for the load will be a total of 1400
You need a vehicle that will tow 1400 but I would go for one that tows at least 1500
Mondeo tows 1800 for example and is fine if not going over soft ground

 

[Dexydoodle]

Ok, so very confused here.

I passed my test in 02. So know I need to do a trailer test

Looking at getting a kia sorrento (been told they're good to tow with) but from there I get stuck!

I'm probably going to be taking 2 x 600kg horses, + tack, water etc. So if all that is in the trailer - does it count towards the weight but me & passenger don't? Also, trying to work out roughly what weight a trailer is (know it will depend on make etc) and whether that lot would leave me within legal limits?

 

[ROG]

Ok, so very confused here.

I passed my test in 02. So know I need to do a trailer test

Looking at getting a kia sorrento (been told they're good to tow with) but from there I get stuck!

I'm probably going to be taking 2 x 600kg horses, + tack, water etc. So if all that is in the trailer - does it count towards the weight but me & passenger don't? Also, trying to work out roughly what weight a trailer is (know it will depend on make etc) and whether that lot would leave me within legal limits?

http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasing/kia/sorento/towing-weight-limit/
Depending on which model it is from that list then its either a 2000 or 2500 towing capacity

2 x horses at 600 = 1200 plus empty weight of trailer which is probably between 900 and 1000 = a total of 2100 to 2200
Obviously the 2000 will not be enough so it will need a model with a 2500 capacity

Only the weight that goes in the trailer plus the empty weight of the trailer is relevant to both the towing capacity of the vehicle and/or the plated MAM of the trailer - the lower of the towing capacity or the trailer MAM is used as the maximum for the actual total weight

What goes in the vehicle is subject to the vehicle GVW

 

[km-j]

Would you check this outfit for me please?

BE License
1. 1343 min kerb weight
2.1880 GVW
3.1500 GTW
4.2600 Trailer
5.967 unladen weight

Thanks

 

[ROG]

Would you check this outfit for me please?

BE License
1. 1343 min kerb weight
2.1880 GVW
3.1500 TOWING CAPACITY
4.2600 Trailer
5.967 unladen weight

Thanks

the lower figure between numbers 3 and 4 is used as the maximum actual loaded trailer weight so that is 1500
1500 minus 967 = 533 so 533 kgs is the max load that can be loaded into the trailer to keep you ok

 

[coen]

Hey,

I have passed the test & the trailer should arrive later this week so wondered what happens regarding insurance.
Do you usually have to pay extra for towing on your current car policy?
SEIB have quoted around £8 a month for the trailer insurance itself, does that sound about right or is it better to get it with your car insurance provider?

 

[ROG]

Hey,

I have passed the test & the trailer should arrive later this week so wondered what happens regarding insurance.
Do you usually have to pay extra for towing on your current car policy?
SEIB have quoted around £8 a month for the trailer insurance itself, does that sound about right or is it better to get it with your car insurance provider?

Basic insurance will cover third party for the trailer but to cover the trailer any more than that will involve a discussion with your vehicle insurer

Get quotes from as many as possible but make sure they are all offering the same package

 

[Ella19]

Help please ROG. I'm getting a rav4 2004 2L. I've heard mixed things about them towing full stop. The figures below are for yard owners hb506 trailer which I couldborrow but there is the ppossibility of borrowing a lighter Bates trailer. Horse is 450kg. Would take trailer liscence.

1 - Will be B + E
2 - 2897
3 - 4041
4 - 1500
5 - 2700
6 - 1000

Hope I've got that right. Figures baffle me!

 

[ROG]

Help please ROG. I'm getting a rav4 2004 2L. I've heard mixed things about them towing full stop. The figures below are for yard owners hb506 trailer which I couldborrow but there is the ppossibility of borrowing a lighter Bates trailer. Horse is 450kg. Would take trailer liscence.

1 - Will be B + E
2 - 2897
3 - 4041
4 - 1500
5 - 2700
6 - 1000

Hope I've got that right. Figures baffle me!

With a 1500 towing capacity and a trailer that weighs 1000 empty it means the max weight that can be loaded into the trailer is 500 kgs

 

[Ella19]

Thank you, so just my horse at 450kg and a haynet should be fine? Is it ok for breaking and hills?

 

[ROG]

Thank you, so just my horse at 450kg and a haynet should be fine? Is it ok for breaking and hills?

I have no idea how any vehicles, apart from LGVs, are at towing

 

[ArcticFox]

Do I need to do the driver CPC?

I passed my driving test pre 1997, and passed my HGV class 2 a few years ago (several years ago in fact - wow, time flies! 6 years I think?)


I drive a 7.5tonne horsebox, but only keep horses for my own hobby. I don't make any money from horses but I do have a farm business (sheep). I hold the sheep and equine competency certificates but don't use the lorry for anything relating to the sheep.

I do give a friend a lift with her horse to shows, no renumeration though.


do I need to do the CPC driver thingy? is there anything else I need to do too?

 

[ROG]

Do I need to do the driver CPC?

I passed my driving test pre 1997, and passed my HGV class 2 a few years ago (several years ago in fact - wow, time flies! 6 years I think?)


I drive a 7.5tonne horsebox, but only keep horses for my own hobby. I don't make any money from horses but I do have a farm business (sheep). I hold the sheep and equine competency certificates but don't use the lorry for anything relating to the sheep.

I do give a friend a lift with her horse to shows, no renumeration though.


do I need to do the CPC driver thingy? is there anything else I need to do too?

The driver cpc (DCPC) is for the COMMERCIAL driving of any vehicle in these categories D1 D1E D DE C1 C1E C CE

PRIVATE driving in any of those categories does not require DCPC with one small exception .... those under age 21 driving a C must pass the initial LGV DCPC but then they become exempt after they reach age 21 - this is because of the lowering of the LGV age from age 21 to age 18
That does affect the actual driving of C1 which has always been at age 18

If a friend pays all your expenses to take their horse to where-ever then that is NOT commercial unless you make, or intend to make, a profit

There is more on LGVs in the LGV CLINIC link below in my signature

Driving a LGV C1 privately/non commercially is exempt tacho and the regs that go with it

 

[ArcticFox]

thanks for that. brill x

 

[mischamoo]

Hi ROG, I finally have bitten the bullet and booked my trailer test (26th Feb!) and have lessons on 25th. I've been towing (with someone next to me) weekly for the past year so am fairly confident with all points BUT I really don't handle a test situation well and when I took my driving test 12 years ago I was a bundle of nerves and just sat there shaking. Is the trailer test a bit more relaxed? Is there a website you can point me to which gives a bit of a breakdown as to what I'm expected to do on the test?

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG, I finally have bitten the bullet and booked my trailer test (26th Feb!) and have lessons on 25th. I've been towing (with someone next to me) weekly for the past year so am fairly confident with all points BUT I really don't handle a test situation well and when I took my driving test 12 years ago I was a bundle of nerves and just sat there shaking. Is the trailer test a bit more relaxed? Is there a website you can point me to which gives a bit of a breakdown as to what I'm expected to do on the test?

The B+E test
No medical or theory test required
Read a number plate from a certain distance
VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions - usually 5
The next three can be in any order:-
VIDEO - Reversing Exercise - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
DSA REVERSING TEST AREA DIAGRAM
VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test

The trailer must now be loaded with 600 kgs of sand bags or a 1000 kgs water IBC for the test so most companies are now training with that weight in the trailer

Well explained here

DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos


[video=youtube;onLQEXUSQv0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onLQEXUSQv0[/video]

[video=youtube;-6xqb0tH5nU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6xqb0tH5nU[/video]

 

[gemma3497]

Hi ROG, could you please tell me if I can drive my car and trailer on a B licence?

Car is 2004 Mitsubishi shogun sport, trailer is an Ifor Williams 505. Towing the kids ponies, a Shetland and a welsh section b.

Thanks in advance x

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG, could you please tell me if I can drive my car and trailer on a B licence?

Car is 2004 Mitsubishi shogun sport, trailer is an Ifor Williams 505. Towing the kids ponies, a Shetland and a welsh section b.

Thanks in advance x

NO chance !!

The GVW of a shogun is at least 2600 and the MAM of a 505 is at least 2300 so that is a total of at least 4900 which is way above the 3500 limit

You need a vehicle with a lower GVW and a trailer with a lower MAM

 

[tallyho!]

Gemma3497... you'll have to do the towing test if you're going to tow with that combo!