Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[ROG]

Thank you.

I've just ben told that the trailer is 700kg unladen and 2000kg laden weight.

Is the GVW the laden weight of car ? If so, i will try and find out..

Thanks very much Rog.

GVW is the same as trailer MAM = the legal max weight it can be when fully loaded

The GVW will be on the V5 document and on a plate in the car which may be hidden inside a door pillar or under the bonnet - it will be the top weight in kgs of the 4 weights listed on that plate

700 for trailer empty plus add 500 for load = 1200 so if you could get the 2000 down plated via the manufacturer to 1200 then the max GVW for the 4x4 cannot be more than 2300 to ensure the 3500 limit is not exceeded

 

[PeggyPatch]

1700 + 1820 = 3520 which is 20 over so the trailer would need to be down plated to a max of 1680

You still have the 1400 limit so 1400 - 675 = 725 so the total weight put into the trailer would be 725

All this is still assuming the GVW and towing capacity figures are correct for your vehicle

Hi Rog,

Previously you helped me with my towing question but I have some more questions.

I have now got myself a bateson Derby and plan to downplate it so I can tow on my B licence. I passed after 1997 so I think I come under the following laws
"If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can:

drive a vehicle up to 3.5 tonnes or 3,500kg MAM towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM
tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as it is no more than the unladen weight of the towing vehicle (with a combined weight of up to 3,500kg in total)"

My horse will weight between 450-550kg (she is a baby for anyone wondering about her weight ). I've calculated that it will be a total of 1225kg (trailer weight and her aboard). That weighs less than the unlaiden weight of my car (1499kg) so I shouldn't have to take the test BUT I think originally you said I would have to downplated to 1680.

Knowing I fall under these laws would I have to down plate further?

Our full conversation is on page 143 is you need any more.

Thanks once again in advance and Happy new year

 

[ROG]

Hi Rog,

Previously you helped me with my towing question but I have some more questions.

I have now got myself a bateson Derby and plan to downplate it so I can tow on my B licence. I passed after 1997 so I think I come under the following laws
"If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can:

drive a vehicle up to 3.5 tonnes or 3,500kg MAM towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM
tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as it is no more than the unladen weight of the towing vehicle (with a combined weight of up to 3,500kg in total)"

My horse will weight between 450-550kg (she is a baby for anyone wondering about her weight ). I've calculated that it will be a total of 1225kg (trailer weight and her aboard). That weighs less than the unlaiden weight of my car (1499kg) so I shouldn't have to take the test BUT I think originally you said I would have to downplated to 1680.

Knowing I fall under these laws would I have to down plate further?

Our full conversation is on page 143 is you need any more.

Thanks once again in advance and Happy new year

"as long as it is no more than the unladen weight of the towing vehicle" - that rule was revoked on 19/01/2013

That now leaves one extra rule, on top of the B+E rules, for B licence towing which is ...
The vehicle GVW added to the plated trailer MAM must not total more than 3500
Makes things easier

This from the previous conversation -

1700 + 1820 = 3520 which is 20 over so the trailer would need to be down plated to a max of 1680

You still have the 1400 limit so 1400 - 675 = 725 so the total weight put into the trailer would be 725

All this is still assuming the GVW and towing capacity figures are correct for your vehicle

 

[ROG]

I thought about doing a big post as its new year but then decided just to do this ......'trailer' ...... LOL

 

[tallyho!]

Happy New Year ROG!

 

[HappyAl]

GVW is the same as trailer MAM = the legal max weight it can be when fully loaded

The GVW will be on the V5 document and on a plate in the car which may be hidden inside a door pillar or under the bonnet - it will be the top weight in kgs of the 4 weights listed on that plate

700 for trailer empty plus add 500 for load = 1200 so if you could get the 2000 down plated via the manufacturer to 1200 then the max GVW for the 4x4 cannot be more than 2300 to ensure the 3500 limit is not exceeded

Thanks Rog. This is all super helpful. It's a bit of a minefield!

Oh and Happy New Year!

 

[Chunkie]

Hi Rog, I've been looking for a link you posted a couple of weeks ago but I can't find it. When I looked at it at the time, you could put in the weight or type of trailer you wanted to tow and it brought up a list of capable cars. I'm not sure whether you could choose 2 or 4wd as well?

If you have any idea what I'm talking about, could you post it again please?

Many thanks x

 

[ROG]

Hi Rog, I've been looking for a link you posted a couple of weeks ago but I can't find it. When I looked at it at the time, you could put in the weight or type of trailer you wanted to tow and it brought up a list of capable cars. I'm not sure whether you could choose 2 or 4wd as well?

If you have any idea what I'm talking about, could you post it again please?

Many thanks x

http://www.towinghorsetrailers.co.uk/towing_vehicles.htm

The results may give the info you want

 

[Chunkie]

That's the one thank you.

 

[WaterBoy]

Hi Rog, very informative thread you have hear and great to see all the help & advice your giving...

I'm hoping you can help me with the questions I have with regards to GVW & GTW ex Cetera.
Firstly I should mention that I'm not looking to transport horses, I want to transport water in bulk. Due to the weight I want to make sure I'm sticking within the law while on the road..

At the moment I only hold a standard B driving licence. One of the reasons I'm asking for advice is I don't own a vehicle or trailer at the moment. I'm looking to transport the maximum volume of water I can in one trip so open to suggestions.

I was thinking of a large van with a GVW of 3500kg, high bhp engine to get a decent towing power and also the possibility of towing a bowser??

Just not sure where I'd stand with regards to the laws, or the best way to go about transporting the most water I could possibly do in one trip..

Open to suggestions and advice.

 

[ROG]

Hi Rog, very informative thread you have hear and great to see all the help & advice your giving...

I'm hoping you can help me with the questions I have with regards to GVW & GTW ex Cetera.
Firstly I should mention that I'm not looking to transport horses, I want to transport water in bulk. Due to the weight I want to make sure I'm sticking within the law while on the road..

At the moment I only hold a standard B driving licence. One of the reasons I'm asking for advice is I don't own a vehicle or trailer at the moment. I'm looking to transport the maximum volume of water I can in one trip so open to suggestions.

I was thinking of a large van with a GVW of 3500kg, high bhp engine to get a decent towing power and also the possibility of towing a bowser??

Just not sure where I'd stand with regards to the laws, or the best way to go about transporting the most water I could possibly do in one trip..

Open to suggestions and advice.

With a Van of 3500 GVW on a B licence your biggest trailer/bowser would be a plated weight of 750 kgs MAM
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1139883

Check the plated weight of any trailer before you buy
Trailers not exceeding 750 kgs plated MAM are not required to have brakes

 

[WaterBoy]

With a Van of 3500 GVW on a B licence your biggest trailer/bowser would be a plated weight of 750 kgs MAM
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1139883

Check the plated weight of any trailer before you buy
Trailers not exceeding 750 kgs plated MAM are not required to have brakes

Cheers, so it's max 750kgs on a B licence.
How dose that relate to the payload of the van? Let's say I wanted to have an ibc container in the back of the van full of water, would I still be able to tow the 750kgs? (I'm assuming that's the total weight when full, or the most you could carry when full including the actual trailer).

Let's say for example I were to have my father drive the van, he has the old type licence so I believe the laws are different. What would be the case then?

Thanks for thr advice,

 

[ROG]

Cheers, so it's max 750kgs on a B licence.
How dose that relate to the payload of the van? Let's say I wanted to have an ibc container in the back of the van full of water, would I still be able to tow the 750kgs? (I'm assuming that's the total weight when full, or the most you could carry when full including the actual trailer).

Let's say for example I were to have my father drive the van, he has the old type licence so I believe the laws are different. What would be the case then?

Thanks for thr advice,

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.

They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.

All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner


Legal B licence towing examples
Vehicle with GVW 2750 to 3500 = max 750 kgs plated MAM for trailer
Vehicle with 2500 GVW = max 1000 kgs plated MAM for trailer
Vehicle with 2000 GVW = max 1500 kgs plated MAM for trailer

Its the plated weights and not the actual weights which the authorities go by

You can load the vehicle and trailer to their respective max permissible weights providing the vehicle GTW and towing capacity allows it


TACHO - is your set up for commercial or private only purposes?

 

[WaterBoy]

Hi Rog, thanks for the advice it's most appreciated.

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.

They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.

All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner

Lots of useful info but I think you may have missed my original question, if my dad was driving dose the weight change?

Legal B licence towing examples
Vehicle with GVW 2750 to 3500 = max 750 kgs plated MAM for trailer
Vehicle with 2500 GVW = max 1000 kgs plated MAM for trailer
Vehicle with 2000 GVW = max 1500 kgs plated MAM for trailer

Its the plated weights and not the actual weights which the authorities go by

You can load the vehicle and trailer to their respective max permissible weights providing the vehicle GTW and towing capacity allows it


TACHO - is your set up for commercial or private only purposes?

TACHO, good question and something I'd not thought about. I don't think a tachometer would be needed, yes it will be for business but only 4-6 days each month will be spent traveling for business at about 5 hours each time.. (Saying that I'm not sure where the tacho rules come into effect).

Also, please bear with me. I'm not too sure what MAM is?

Let's say for example I wanted to buy this van:

And I wanted to tow this trailer:

Could I drive under my B licence?
Could my dad drive under his older licence?

Cheers Rog..

 

[ROG]

Whether you are driving with your dad supervising or your dad is driving then B+E rules apply

Driving on your own means B rules apply

MAM or GVW means the same thing = the maximum something can legally weigh when fully loaded

With that 1500 kg MAM trailer and that 3500 GVW van = B+E rules

If you contacted the manufacturer of that trailer and got it down plated to 750 kgs MAM then = B rules

Trailer at 1500 = 1195 load for trailer
Trailer at 750 = 445 load for trailer

If for ANY commercial use AT ANY TIME and over 3500 total MAM - which both examples are - then it comes under TACHO rules UNLESS it never goes more than 50 km from base AND the load is used for the job you went to do

Example of tacho exemption -
Van and trailer 3750 kgs total MAM are loaded with water bowsers and cleaning equipment which the driver uses to clean other peoples vehicles and it never goes more than 50 km from base

Its a very heavy fine if the tacho rules are ignored

 

[xStephx]

Can anyone recommend any brand new cars that are acceptable to tow on a B license? I haven't got a trailer yet but would get something like the Bateson Derby down plated. Horse would weigh approx. 550kg. My dad's company car is due to be changed for a new one and I'm having trouble finding specs for new models on the internet without having to sign up and download loads of brochures. I know I can trawl these posts but my eyes are hurting already!

 

[ROG]

Can anyone recommend any brand new cars that are acceptable to tow on a B license? I haven't got a trailer yet but would get something like the Bateson Derby down plated. Horse would weigh approx. 550kg. My dad's company car is due to be changed for a new one and I'm having trouble finding specs for new models on the internet without having to sign up and download loads of brochures. I know I can trawl these posts but my eyes are hurting already!

Just google ....
Cars GVW 2000 2100 2200 kgs
... and see what that brings up

 

[ROG]

Ford mondeo is a favourite

 

[WaterBoy]

Thanks for all the advice Rog.

 

[peter2014]

Hello Rog could really do with your advice, I passed my test in 93, I plan on buying a 2012 focus estate, I went on a web site and it said it has a towing weight of 1200kg. I was going to buy a car transporter/trailer braked that weights 700kg, However am I correct in thinking I can only put a car on it that weights 500kg or less??? If that's the case then its not going to be the way forward, I just cant get my head around this topic

 

[Darremi]

If the maximum towing weight for the car is 1200 then anything more than 700 + 500 is going to knacker the car!

 

[ROG]

Hello Rog could really do with your advice, I passed my test in 93, I plan on buying a 2012 focus estate, I went on a web site and it said it has a towing weight of 1200kg. I was going to buy a car transporter/trailer braked that weights 700kg, However am I correct in thinking I can only put a car on it that weights 500kg or less??? If that's the case then its not going to be the way forward, I just cant get my head around this topic

500 max is correct

 

[peter2014]

500 max is correct

Thanks Rog

Guess I wont be buying one then! Hereis what I just found on the ford website

Kerbweight 1362kg
gross vehicle mass 1900kg
gross train mass 3100kg
max towable mass 1200kg

I basically need to find tow car which I can legally tow a braked trailer that weights under 750. and then ontop of that I will be towing cars on said trailer weighing kerbweight 1100

I don't really want a 4x4 so any pointers? cheers all who help out

 

[ROG]

I basically need to find tow car which I can legally tow a braked trailer that weights under 750. and then ontop of that I will be towing cars on said trailer weighing kerbweight 1100

I don't really want a 4x4 so any pointers? cheers all who help out

You need a vehicle with a towing capacity around 2000 kgs

try putting 2000 into that link http://www.towinghorsetrailers.co.uk/towing_vehicles.htm

 

[Tayto]

I hope this is the right place to post - need some advice.

I have an audi a5 quattro - I thought it would be ok to use for towing a trailer with 1 x 500kg horse in it but when I phoned to get a price to fit a tow bar to it, the garage told me that the a5's are not designed for towing so they need to modify the engine and it will cost be £4k!!!!! Might as well buy a car just for towing its that the case.

Can anyone shed any more light on this - do you think the garage are taking the pee a bit cos I am a "helpless woman"???

 

[xStephx]

Ford mondeo is a favourite

Thanks ROG, just another thought as well, my dad can buy his current car and I buy this off him, as I think it may be possible on a B license to tow. His current car is a Citroen C4 Picasso, I've taken these details off another C4 Picasso on available car, but I can find the exact specs later. If they are the below am I right in thinking it is possible to tow with a down plated trailer?

Minimum Kerbweight1489 Gross Vehicle Weight2050 Max. Towing Weight - Braked1500

Thanks

 

[ROG]

I hope this is the right place to post - need some advice.

I have an audi a5 quattro - I thought it would be ok to use for towing a trailer with 1 x 500kg horse in it but when I phoned to get a price to fit a tow bar to it, the garage told me that the a5's are not designed for towing so they need to modify the engine and it will cost be £4k!!!!! Might as well buy a car just for towing its that the case.

Can anyone shed any more light on this - do you think the garage are taking the pee a bit cos I am a "helpless woman"???

http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasing/audi/a5/towing-weight-limit/ - is your model in that list?

 

[ROG]

Thanks ROG, just another thought as well, my dad can buy his current car and I buy this off him, as I think it may be possible on a B license to tow. His current car is a Citroen C4 Picasso, I've taken these details off another C4 Picasso on available car, but I can find the exact specs later. If they are the below am I right in thinking it is possible to tow with a down plated trailer?

Minimum Kerbweight1489 Gross Vehicle Weight2050 Max. Towing Weight - Braked1500

Thanks

GVW of 2050 means you can have a trailer with a plated MAM of 1450

Something like a HB 401 or 403 down plated from 1600 to say 1400 with an empty weight of about 800 means a horse/load of 600 can be loaded into the trailer

 

[Tayto]

http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasing/audi/a5/towing-weight-limit/ - is your model in that list?

It is the "A5 Coupe 3.0 TDI 245 Quattro S Line 2dr S Tronic" which states a capacity of 2,100kg. I am only towing one horse so I doubt we would exceed 1700kg.....

 

[ROG]

It is the "A5 Coupe 3.0 TDI 245 Quattro S Line 2dr S Tronic" which states a capacity of 2,100kg. I am only towing one horse so I doubt we would exceed 1700kg.....

Then a towbar can be fitted and you can tow with it

As it has a GVW of 2345 then B+E licence rules apply