Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[ROG]

Gemma3497... you'll have to do the towing test if you're going to tow with that combo!

Or use this alternative ..

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner

 

[gemma3497]

Ok thanks for that, looks like I'll be taking the trailer test after all! I passed my test in 97 so pretty gutted, I only just missed out!
Thanks again x

 

[Overgrown Pony]

For a BMW X3 towing a horse weighing 650kg in an Ifor 510

1 - What licence they hold - B or BE - BE
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle - kerb weight 1790kg
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle - 2000kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres - downrated to whatever it needs to carry this one horse (trailer isn't bought yet)
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer - 920kg

Cheers

 

[ROG]

For a BMW X3 towing a horse weighing 650kg in an Ifor 510

1 - What licence they hold - B or BE - BE
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle - kerb weight 1790kg
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle - 2000kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres - downrated to whatever it needs to carry this one horse (trailer isn't bought yet)
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer - 920kg

Cheers

As the driver has a B+E there is no reason to down plate any trailer

The GVW is likely to be between 2300 and 2400 according to this list - http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasing/bmw/x3/towing-weight-limit/

The trailer MAM is about 2700 I think

2400 + 2700 = 5100 so way over the 3500 limit for B licence towing but your info states the driver has B+E so we do not need to bother about that

For a B+E driver simply take the lower figure between the towing capacity and the trailer MAM - that is 2000 in this case
If the trailer weighs 920 empty the take that figure from 2000 which leaves 1080 for the load


The trailer MAM can legally be more than the max towing capacity

 

[Overgrown Pony]

As the driver has a B+E there is no reason to down plate any trailer

The GVW is likely to be between 2300 and 2400 according to this list - http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasing/bmw/x3/towing-weight-limit/

The trailer MAM is about 2700 I think

2400 + 2700 = 5100 so way over the 3500 limit for B licence towing but your info states the driver has B+E so we do not need to bother about that

For a B+E driver simply take the lower figure between the towing capacity and the trailer MAM - that is 2000 in this case
If the trailer weighs 920 empty the take that figure from 2000 which leaves 1080 for the load


The trailer MAM can legally be more than the max towing capacity

So perfectly legal and safe to carry 1080kg. Thanks so much Rog

 

[ROG]

So perfectly legal and safe to carry 1080kg. Thanks so much Rog

Best to put the trailer empty over a weighbridge to make certain of its empty weight

 

[Lambkins]

I have a jeep Cherokee ( over lander ) trailer is 750kgs pony 500kgs and have a b licence ..where do I stand :/ thank u

 

[ROG]

I have a jeep Cherokee ( over lander ) trailer is 750kgs pony 500kgs and have a b licence ..where do I stand :/ thank u

What is the GVW of the vehicle? - will be on a plate under bonnet or hidden in a door frame usually - top figure needed
What is the plated MAM of the trailer? - usually on a sliver plate on the A frame bit

From what I remember the jeep has a GVW about 3000 so the max trailer plated MAM on a B licence will be 750 kgs and most horse trailers are above that empty = not a chance of towing any horse trailer on a B licence

The GVW of the vehicle added to the trailer plated MAM must not total more than 3500 for B towing

You could tow on L plates ...

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner

 

[Optimist]

Hi Rog

I am ancient enough to be able to drive up to 7.5t lorries and tow a trailer with a car on my original licence. Would I be able to tow a caravan with my 7.5t lorry?

 

[ROG]

Hi Rog

I am ancient enough to be able to drive up to 7.5t lorries and tow a trailer with a car on my original licence. Would I be able to tow a caravan with my 7.5t lorry?

You will have a C1+E 107 code on your licence
That 107 code restricts the total of the vehicle/trailer/caravan GVW/MAM/MTPLM plated weights to 8250 kgs

Some legal examples for your situation ... it all goes on the plated weights not actual weights

Vehicle GVW 7500 + caravan MTPLM 750 kgs = 8250 (this one can also be done with a LGV C1 without the +E)
Vehicle GVW 6500 + caravan MTPLM 1750 kgs = 8250
Vehicle GVW 6200 + trailer MAM 2050 kgs = 8250
Vehicle GVW 5000 + trailer MAM 3250 kgs = 8250

 

[Optimist]

You will have a C1+E 107 code on your licence
That 107 code restricts the total of the vehicle/trailer/caravan GVW/MAM/MTPLM plated weights to 8250 kgs

Some legal examples for your situation ... it all goes on the plated weights not actual weights

Vehicle GVW 7500 + caravan MTPLM 750 kgs = 8250 (this one can also be done with a LGV C1 without the +E)
Vehicle GVW 6500 + caravan MTPLM 1750 kgs = 8250
Vehicle GVW 6200 + trailer MAM 2050 kgs = 8250
Vehicle GVW 5000 + trailer MAM 3250 kgs = 8250

Thank you ROG - Is the Vehicle plated weight the weight on the certificate in the cab? And how would you know the MTPLM of an elderly caravan? Would it have a similar certificate somewhere?

 

[ROG]

Thank you ROG - Is the Vehicle plated weight the weight on the certificate in the cab? And how would you know the MTPLM of an elderly caravan? Would it have a similar certificate somewhere?

Yes its on the certificate in the cab - for a 2 axle vehicle it should have 4 figures on it
top= GVW
second down = GTW
third down = front axle
bottom = rear axle

MTPLM of an old caravan should have a plate on it but if not then google for the model or give the manufacturer a call - if all else fails then the total of all the tyre load ratings will be considered to be the MTPLM/MAM

 

[Northern Hare]

Hi, I am in the process of arranging for a towbar to be fitted to my husband's car. I used to tow with my own car but now I have a smaller car, my husband's car will become the occasional tow car.

I have an Ifor Williams 505 trailer - in which I tow my 16hh horse.

I contacted Ifor Williams ref the correct towbar make/model and towbar height, and they said that while the trailer is coupled up to the towbar, you want the measurement to be 430mm (+/- 35mm) from the ground to the centre of the towball.

I've just checked with the company who we are going to use to install the towbar, to make sure that it can be installed at the correct height for the trailer and they have replied to say that "We cannot stipulate the height of the towbar, this is determined by the vehicle itself".

The car is a Mercedes ML 4x4. Does anyone know how I can check that the towbar is going to be at the correct height for the trailer? I don't want to pay to have the towbar installed only to find that it's too high or too low.

Final question - we were going to go for a detachable towbar - is that ok for a horse trailer (it's up to 3,000kg tow weight)?

I'd be very grateful for any assistance with this!!

 

[ROG]

I have no experience with towbars but perhaps others reading this might be able to help

 

[bex1984]

ROG, can I ask, can you recommend anywhere/anyone in Leicester for replacement trailer tyres?? Ideally somewhere a useless person can easily drive in and out of without any complicated reversing manoeuvres...

 

[ROG]

ROG, can I ask, can you recommend anywhere/anyone in Leicester for replacement trailer tyres?? Ideally somewhere a useless person can easily drive in and out of without any complicated reversing manoeuvres...

Not a clue on this one !

 

[bex1984]

Not a clue on this one !

Never mind - thought it was worth a try asking I'll make some phone calls tomorrow and see if I can find anywhere!

 

[Lofty580]

Hi there
Hoping you can help me work out if this is allowed, I am looking at getting a 52 plate hyundai Santa Fe 2.0 TD manual, am unsure if would be allowed to tow either an IW 510 or a Bateson deuville trailer with one horse weighing approx 675.
I have managed to find these figures and am hoping they are correct

1 BE licence
2 kerb weight 1718
3 cannot find!!!
4 tow capacity 2300
5 IW510 2584, bateson 2300
6 IW510 1000, Bateson 860

 

[Lofty580]

Hi there
Hoping you can help me work out if this is allowed, I am looking at getting a 52 plate hyundai Santa Fe 2.0 TD manual, am unsure if would be allowed to tow either an IW 510 or a Bateson deuville trailer with one horse weighing approx 675.
I have managed to find these figures and am hoping they are correct

1 BE licence
2 kerb weight 1718
3 cannot find!!!
4 tow capacity 2300
5 IW510 2584, bateson 2300
6 IW510 1000, Bateson 860

Think the gvwr is 2380 if that helps!!

 

[Lofty580]

This has probably already been answered but i am trying to work out am I allowed to tow a trailer with a mam higher than the max towing capacity of the car as long as i don't actually pull more than the towing capacity?!

 

[ROG]

This has probably already been answered but i am trying to work out am I allowed to tow a trailer with a mam higher than the max towing capacity of the car as long as i don't actually pull more than the towing capacity?!

Yes you can because there is no law or rule which states otherwise

 

[Lofty580]

Thank you Rog

Do the figures I put in previous post make sense to allow the towing also?

 

[ROG]

Hi there
Hoping you can help me work out if this is allowed, I am looking at getting a 52 plate hyundai Santa Fe 2.0 TD manual, am unsure if would be allowed to tow either an IW 510 or a Bateson deuville trailer with one horse weighing approx 675.
I have managed to find these figures and am hoping they are correct

1 BE licence
2 kerb weight 1718
3 cannot find!!! = Think the gvwr is 2380 if that helps!!
4 tow capacity 2300
5 IW510 2584, bateson 2300
6 IW510 1000, Bateson 860

Perfectly ok as long as the actual weight of 2300 is not exceeded

For B+E licence holders all that matters is the towing capacity and the trailer MAM as the lower of the two is to be used as the maximum figure when loaded

 

[Lofty580]

ok
another random question but im getting confused! I looked at a car online and for the make, model and year of manufacture it states the towing capacity to be 2300. I have just been to look at the vehicle and these are the figures on the VIN plate

2510
4380
1290
1370

i am assuming the first number is the maximum weight of the car, the second is the train weight of vehicle and trailer combined and that the other two are the axle loading weights. If this is the case does this mean that the towing capacity is 1880???? or is that worked out using the kerb weight not the allowed weight of a car fully laden???
aarrghhhh help please!!!

 

[ROG]

ok
another random question but im getting confused! I looked at a car online and for the make, model and year of manufacture it states the towing capacity to be 2300. I have just been to look at the vehicle and these are the figures on the VIN plate

2510
4380
1290
1370

i am assuming the first number is the maximum weight of the car, the second is the train weight of vehicle and trailer combined and that the other two are the axle loading weights. If this is the case does this mean that the towing capacity is 1880???? or is that worked out using the kerb weight not the allowed weight of a car fully laden???
aarrghhhh help please!!!

you got the relevant weights correct

In the greater majority of cases but not all the GTW 4380 minus the GVW 2510 will be the max towing capacity
4380 - 2510 = 1870

Kerb weight has no relevance in those calculations
Kerb/empty/unladen weight is only needed when trying to work out what is allowed for payload

 

[LJScott]

1 B licence
2 kerb weight I am looking at Landy Freelander 01-03 so around 1562 - the gvwr is 2060
4 tow capacity 1800
5 Sinclair Sigma 4 - Current MAM- 2200 - looking at getting it downplated to around 1450? so I don't need to get my B+E right now
6 Unladen weight - 750

I have one 14.2 pony weighing approx 450 and the childrens 11.2 pony weighing 250 I am thinking of towing one pony at a time to begin with. I have not as yet bought a towing car so any advise on something economical and suitable for a family would be great also within a budget of about £1500-£2000 that I can tow on a B would be great

 

[ROG]

1 B licence
2 kerb weight I am looking at Landy Freelander 01-03 so around 1562 - the gvwr is 2060
4 tow capacity 1800
5 Sinclair Sigma 4 - Current MAM- 2200 - looking at getting it downplated to around 1450? so I don't need to get my B+E right now
6 Unladen weight - 750

I have one 14.2 pony weighing approx 450 and the childrens 11.2 pony weighing 250 I am thinking of towing one pony at a time to begin with. I have not as yet bought a towing car so any advise on something economical and suitable for a family would be great also within a budget of about £1500-£2000 that I can tow on a B would be great

I cannot find any link for the Sinclair trailer company so if it is no longer trading then the trailer cannot be down plated because a trailer under 3500 kgs MAM can only be down plated by the manufacturer

If it can be down plated then the max plated MAM for a 2060 GVW vehicle is 1440 kgs

If you had a trailer plated at say 1400 and it was something like a Bateson Derby twin weighing 675 empty then it can take a payload of 725 kgs

 

[LJScott]

Thanks for your speedy reply! I have been in contact with Wessex trailers who will downplate the trailer when I provide the serial number to them as Pegasus bought Sinclair and Wessex bought Pegasus so they are able to do it for me So if I got the trailer downplated to 1440kg then I would be able to tow using a freelander on my B ?

 

[ROG]

Thanks for your speedy reply! I have been in contact with Wessex trailers who will downplate the trailer when I provide the serial number to them as Pegasus bought Sinclair and Wessex bought Pegasus so they are able to do it for me So if I got the trailer downplated to 1440kg then I would be able to tow using a freelander on my B ?

If the figures are as you state then yes

The one extra rule for towing a trailer over 750 kgs MAM on a B licence is this....

... the vehicle GVW added to the trailer plated MAM must not total more than 3500 kgs

All the other general towing rules apply to both B and B+E towing

 

[LJScott]

Brilliant thanks so much for your advice