Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[Goldenstar]

I am going to ASSUME for this answer that you have a pre 1997 car licence only with all the free categories that came with it

If you have a lorry which has a GVW of 7500 then you can only tow 750 plated MAM/GVW behind it = C1+E 107 code
OR
If you have a lorry which has a GVW of 7000 then you can only tow 1250 plated MAM/GVW behind it = C1+E 107 code

Having the vehicle loaded or not makes no difference to the answers given because the plated weighs will not have changed

Sorry yes have a pre 1997 licence and am looking at the 7 ton as it gives a much much better payload than a 7.5 ton truck.
We are thinking of biting the bullet and building on a new seven van chassis and using it as a motor home in non horse situations as my OH is about to retire and we hope to have lots of fun time to travel .
Hence wanting to tow a small car it's all sounds quite doable .
Thanks ROG .

 

[Goldenstar]

ROG stupid question is it 1250 kilos ?
Thanks again

 

[ROG]

Sorry yes have a pre 1997 licence and am looking at the 7 ton as it gives a much much better payload than a 7.5 ton truck.
We are thinking of biting the bullet and building on a new seven van chassis and using it as a motor home in non horse situations as my OH is about to retire and we hope to have lots of fun time to travel .
Hence wanting to tow a small car it's all sounds quite doable .
Thanks ROG .

Check this out = http://www.armitagetrailers.com/Cartransportertrailers.htm - plating that trailer to 1250 would work with a 7000 GVW vehicle and a C1+E 107

A Nissan Micra weighs just under 1000 empty and that trailer weighs 225 empty

If you wanted that trailer at 1300 then simply replate the lorry to 6950 - that would drop the lorry payload by 50

 

[Goldenstar]

Or fit the van with one of those fixed arm thingys that tow the car along the road .
Thanks ROG this looking very possible so we end up with a vehicle that much more multipurpose than just for horses and we are looking to buy a small runabout car anyway .

 

[ROG]

Or fit the van with one of those fixed arm thingys that tow the car along the road ..

If any part of the car being towed touches the road and the GVW is over 750 kg (most cars I know of) then the weight towed for licencing and tacho purposes will be the GVW of the car and it must have a braking system which is triggered by the towing vehicle

You sure you want to go down that route?

 

[Goldenstar]

If any part of the car being towed touches the road and the GVW is over 750 kg (most cars I know of) then the weight towed for licencing and tacho purposes will be the GVW of the car and it must have a braking system which is triggered by the towing vehicle

You sure you want to go down that route?

Perhaps not how are they doing it all these motorhomes you see towing cars all the time .

 

[ROG]

Perhaps not how are they doing it all these motorhomes you see towing cars all the time .

There is a way to connect the two braking systems together but I believe its tricky and a little expensive

 

[Goldenstar]

There is a way to connect the two braking systems together but I believe its tricky and a little expensive

Thanks more research needed .

 

[Tiddlypom]

Thanks more research needed .

The current (July) issue of MMM ('The Motorhomer's Magazine') has a two page article on 'Towing with a motorhome' . I bought my copy in Sainsburys.

 

[ApolloStorm]

I'm really looking for which towing vehicle would be suitable here:

1. B+E ( pre 97)
2.1955 ( OH insists his Merc e class will do it I'm not too sure )
3.2550
4. 2100
5. 2600 ( I think, trailer is new ifor 506)
6. 920

Looking at the numbers now I really don't think it'll be legal but might as well check . If not anyone got any suggestions for a non 4 x 4 that will tow it legally
thanks

 

[ROG]

I'm really looking for which towing vehicle would be suitable here:

1. B+E ( pre 97)
2.1955 ( OH insists his Merc e class will do it I'm not too sure )
3.2550
4. 2100
5. 2600 ( I think, trailer is new ifor 506)
6. 920

Looking at the numbers now I really don't think it'll be legal but might as well check . If not anyone got any suggestions for a non 4 x 4 that will tow it legally
thanks

Easy this one ...
2100-920=1180 payload for trailer

towing capacities are all tested the same so with a 2100 capacity it will tow an actual weight of 2100

Where you might come unstuck is on soft or wet surfaces as its not a 4x4

 

[ApolloStorm]

Awesome so do you reckon I'd be ok to tow the trailer plus two 16hh or would that be pushing it ??

 

[ROG]

Awesome so do you reckon I'd be ok to tow the trailer plus two 16hh or would that be pushing it ??

If they weigh 500 each then it will be ok legally with 180 spare

 

[acw295]

ROG, we are changing my 3.5t horsebox for a lightweight trailer and want to have an estate or smaller 4x4 for towing due to the fact we only go out occasionally. I only have a 14.2hh coblet (who weighs approx 480kg). Would this combo work? Husband says yes but I find myself very confused by it all still!

The trailer will be a new(ish) Bateson Ascot or Deuville, I have given figures for the heavier of the 2 models but there is not much in it.
Potential cars are a Merc E220 estate or an Audi A4 Allroad or Freelander 2 (or something similar), I have given the spec of the Merc for now.

1- My husband has a pre 1997 B+E license (and he will be the one driving as I have no desire to tow!)
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle = 1845kg
3 - Gross Vehicle Weight of the towing vehicle = 2440kg
4 - towing capacity of the towing vehicle = 2100kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer = 2300kg
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer = 925kg

 

[ROG]

ROG, we are changing my 3.5t horsebox for a lightweight trailer and want to have an estate or smaller 4x4 for towing due to the fact we only go out occasionally. I only have a 14.2hh coblet (who weighs approx 480kg). Would this combo work? Husband says yes but I find myself very confused by it all still!

The trailer will be a new(ish) Bateson Ascot or Deuville, I have given figures for the heavier of the 2 models but there is not much in it.
Potential cars are a Merc E220 estate or an Audi A4 Allroad or Freelander 2 (or something similar), I have given the spec of the Merc for now.

1- My husband has a pre 1997 B+E license (and he will be the one driving as I have no desire to tow!)
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle = 1845kg
3 - Gross Vehicle Weight of the towing vehicle = 2440kg
4 - towing capacity of the towing vehicle = 2100kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer = 2300kg
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer = 925kg

Legal to load trailer with 1175 kgs (2100-925=1175) so a 480 load will be well within limits

 

[raegank]

Posting on behalf of a friend... please could anyone offer any advice?

I am looking for some advice.
I hold my B (car) license and have plenty of experience driving my horse in a trailer. I am wondering whether by Law I need to take my B+E Test.

I drive a Hyundai Santa Fe (late 2006 model) and my trailer is a Ifor Williams 510, My horse weighs 450Kg Max.

I have looked up the Law which states I can drive a vehicle and Trailer + Load providing the combined weight doesn’t exceed 3500Kg and the Loaded Trailer alone doesn’t exceed the towing weight of the vehicle.

Can you confirm that I am actually just inside the weight restrictions for towing on a category B License? And therefore Legal to drive in the UK?

Thanks

 

[ROG]

Posting on behalf of a friend... please could anyone offer any advice?

I am looking for some advice.
I hold my B (car) license and have plenty of experience driving my horse in a trailer. I am wondering whether by Law I need to take my B+E Test.

I drive a Hyundai Santa Fe (late 2006 model) and my trailer is a Ifor Williams 510, My horse weighs 450Kg Max.

I have looked up the Law which states I can drive a vehicle and Trailer + Load providing the combined weight doesn’t exceed 3500Kg and the Loaded Trailer alone doesn’t exceed the towing weight of the vehicle.

Can you confirm that I am actually just inside the weight restrictions for towing on a category B License? And therefore Legal to drive in the UK?

Thanks

B licence towing rules go on the total of the plated weights not actual weights

From the internet it seems the Santa Fe is about 2600 kg GVW
IW HB510 is 2584 MAM
that is a total of 5184 so way over the 3500 limit for B towing

With the vehicle having such a high GVW there is no way a trailer can be used for horse towing even if a trailer was down plated by the manufacturer

You need a different vehicle and trailer

 

[ROG]

This may interest you ...


SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner

The B+E test
No medical or theory test required
Read a number plate from a certain distance
VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions - usually 5
The next three can be in any order:-
VIDEO - Reversing Exercise VIDEO - Reversing Exercise - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
DSA REVERSING TEST AREA DIAGRAM DSA REVERSING TEST AREA DIAGRAM
VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test

The trailer must now be loaded with 600 kgs of sand bags or a 1000 kgs water IBC for the test so most companies are now training with that weight in the trailer
https://www.gov.uk/new-laden-testing-rules-for-driving-test-vehicles

Well explained here Well explained here

DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos

This is interesting BUT NOT RECOMMENDED – a B licence towing set up can be presented for the B+E test but L plates must be used for the test. So you can train yourself, go to test by yourself, fit L plates, do the test, then, pass or fail, remove L plates and drive away by yourself.
DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS
Remember that the required 600 kgs of sand bags or 1 x 1000 IBC filled with water will be required in the trailer and the load must be secure.

 

[raegank]

B licence towing rules go on the total of the plated weights not actual weights

From the internet it seems the Santa Fe is about 2600 kg GVW
IW HB510 is 2584 MAM
that is a total of 5184 so way over the 3500 limit for B towing

With the vehicle having such a high GVW there is no way a trailer can be used for horse towing even if a trailer was down plated by the manufacturer

You need a different vehicle and trailer

Thanks so much for your help.

She's booked in for a test date in July but just wanted to double check she wasn't already able to tow before she goes through with the test.

 

[ROG]

Thanks so much for your help.

She's booked in for a test date in July but just wanted to double check she wasn't already able to tow before she goes through with the test.

She can under supervision as the set up is currently a B+E

 

[acw295]

Legal to load trailer with 1175 kgs (2100-925=1175) so a 480 load will be well within limits

Fabulous. Thank you! So it is just the max towing capacity of whatever vehicle minus the unladen trailer weight that I need to worry about? That makes it much easier! I thought it was so much harder than that. The Audi allroad has a lower tow capacity of 1900kg and the Freelander 2000kg but that still gives me room for my pony I think 2100kg is better though as potentially means I could take a friend with me now and again (similar sized pony - no big horses).

 

[ROG]

Fabulous. Thank you! So it is just the max towing capacity of whatever vehicle minus the unladen trailer weight that I need to worry about? That makes it much easier! I thought it was so much harder than that. The Audi allroad has a lower tow capacity of 1900kg and the Freelander 2000kg but that still gives me room for my pony I think 2100kg is better though as potentially means I could take a friend with me now and again (similar sized pony - no big horses).

Not always the max towing capacity minus the trailer unladen weight because if the trailer MAM is lower then that would be the limit

Both these examples below have a trailer empty weight of 1000 kg

Example 1
Towing capacity 2000
Trailer MAM 2500
Payload for trailer 1000 (2000-1000=1000)

Example 2
Towing capacity 2000
Trailer MAM 1800
Payload for trailer 800 (1800-1000=800)

 

[firejenson]

I don't have my handbook for the car at hand and struggle to find info online but here goes..
1 - B (unfortunately -98)
2 - 1550kg
3 - No idea,sorry :-(
4 - I can find both 1600kg and 1800kg online (again need my handbook!)
5 - Richardson Supreme Rosette actual plate says 1400kg-2700kg?
6 - 820kg

Sorry to be so vague :-/

 

[ROG]

I don't have my handbook for the car at hand and struggle to find info online but here goes..
1 - B (unfortunately -98)
2 - 1550kg
3 - No idea,sorry :-(
4 - I can find both 1600kg and 1800kg online (again need my handbook!)
5 - Richardson Supreme Rosette actual plate says 1400kg-2700kg?
6 - 820kg

Sorry to be so vague :-/

Trailer too high plated at 2700 kg and as manufacturer not in business then it cannot be down plated for B towing


The good news is that most GVWs are about 500 above the kerb weight so 1550 + 500 = 2050 APPROX
The lower towing capacity of 1600 is ok


Today, look for the weight plate hidden under the bonnet or in a door frame of your vehicle and post the top 2 of the 4 figures please


Solution for B towing with 1 horse = get a different trailer perhaps something like a HB401 or HB403 (there are many other makes/models) and have it down plated via contact with manufacturer to 1400 (IW now charge £50 for this so I am informed)
The HBs mentioned are 800 max empty so plated at 1400 they can take a load/horse of 600

 

[firejenson]

Finally got to check the plate on the car,

The numbers are as follows (in the order they are on the plate!)

2100kg
3900kg
1- 1040
2-1120

 

[ROG]

Finally got to check the plate on the car,

The numbers are as follows (in the order they are on the plate!)

2100kg
3900kg
1- 1040
2-1120

My guess was not that far out !

Your car has a GVW of 2100 and a towing capacity of 1800 (3900-2100=1800)
The maximum trailer plated MAM you can tow is 1400
At the moment you have a trailer with a plated MAM of 2700 so 1300 too high
As the manufacturer of that trailer is no more then you cannot get it down plated

Solution is to get a trailer where the empty/un-laden weight is about 800 and the manufacturer is still in business so it can be down plated to 1400 which then leaves a trailer payload of about 600


The bottom 2 of the 4 numbers are 1- front axle and 2- rear axle which together will always add up to more than the GVW to allow for some flexibility when loading the vehicle

 

[firejenson]

Thank you very much! So am I correct thinking this combination would be okay with B + E licence?

I only have ponies (max 400kg)

Also still a bit confused as the actual trailers plate gives too numbers 1400kg-2700kg, is this normal? It's such a bargain that I might just have to bite the bullet and get my test done

 

[firejenson]

Thank you very much! So am I correct thinking this combination would be okay with B + E licence?

I only have ponies (max 400kg)

Also still a bit confused as the actual trailers plate gives too numbers 1400kg-2700kg, is this normal? It's such a bargain that I might just have to bite the bullet and get my test done

Sorry but truly confused, got sent a photo of the plate on the trailer and this plate says manufacture as Avonride, gave them a ring and found out they only did the base/axle to these trailers. So no idea what the actual plate is??

 

[ROG]

Thank you very much! So am I correct thinking this combination would be okay with B + E licence?

I only have ponies (max 400kg)

Also still a bit confused as the actual trailers plate gives too numbers 1400kg-2700kg, is this normal? It's such a bargain that I might just have to bite the bullet and get my test done

Sorry but truly confused, got sent a photo of the plate on the trailer and this plate says manufacture as Avonride, gave them a ring and found out they only did the base/axle to these trailers. So no idea what the actual plate is??

The frame/brakes is designed to be between 1400 to 2700 but in most cases they are 2700

If there is no plate then the total of all the tyre load ratings will be the MAM with max limit of 3500

B+E ok and with a towing capacity of 1800 then trailer 820 plus two ponies at 400 is only 1620 so 180 spare

 

[holeymoley]

1 - What licence they hold - B
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle- 1446kg
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle- 2050kg
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle- 1500kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres-tyres 1800kg
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer - 750kg

I'm not entirely sure of 5 but I think its 1800kg. This is going by the tyres as there's no plate. Would there be a way to reduce this by tyres? I've tried to get a plate before but it's proving rather difficult.