Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[ROG]

1 - What licence they hold - B
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle- 1446kg
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle- 2050kg
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle- 1500kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres-tyres 1800kg
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer - 750kg

I'm not entirely sure of 5 but I think its 1800kg. This is going by the tyres as there's no plate. Would there be a way to reduce this by tyres? I've tried to get a plate before but it's proving rather difficult.

What trailer is it?

You can reduce the total of the tyre load ratings by changing tyres for a lower set but if you get 4 which add up to the max of 1450 then you are going to be very exact weight distribution wise when loaded so that not one of them is over its limit


You have the right vehicle weight wise for B towing but really need a different trailer

 

[firejenson]

Thanks again for your help and being so patient with me being a numpty!

 

[holeymoley]

What trailer is it?

You can reduce the total of the tyre load ratings by changing tyres for a lower set but if you get 4 which add up to the max of 1450 then you are going to be very exact weight distribution wise when loaded so that not one of them is over its limit


You have the right vehicle weight wise for B towing but really need a different trailer

Thanks . It's an old type - bahill sportsman. I had a look at tyres today and they say max load each is 475kg.

 

[ROG]

Thanks . It's an old type - bahill sportsman. I had a look at tyres today and they say max load each is 475kg.

That's a MAM of 1900 kg

Bahill went out of business many years ago so no chance of a down plate

Realistically you have two choices - get B+E or a different trailer

you are not a numpty - the laws surrounding trailer towing especially on a B licence are not made clear on the internet by the DVLA

 

[supagran]

Can you tell me if I am able to tow with the following outfit (I have a pre-1997 licence!):

IW 511 u/l weight 1000kg
Weight of horse 550kg

Car:
Citroen C5 2.0l HDI 138hp
The plate on the car shows the following:
2276 kg
3776 kg
1-1280 kg
2-1130 kg

Thanks!

 

[ROG]

Can you tell me if I am able to tow with the following outfit (I have a pre-1997 licence!):

IW 511 u/l weight 1000kg
Weight of horse 550kg

Car:
Citroen C5 2.0l HDI 138hp
The plate on the car shows the following:
2276 kg
3776 kg
1-1280 kg
2-1130 kg

Thanks!

3776 - 2276 = 1500 which usually means the manufacturer has set a max towing capacity of 1500

Your trailer empty weight of 1000 plus your horse of 550 = 1550 so over that limit

You need a different vehicle with a greater towing capacity or a lighter trailer

 

[supagran]

3776 - 2276 = 1500 which usually means the manufacturer has set a max towing capacity of 1500

Your trailer empty weight of 1000 plus your horse of 550 = 1550 so over that limit

You need a different vehicle with a greater towing capacity or a lighter trailer

Thanks very much for quick response!

 

[mischamoo]

Hi ROG, I currently tow a 511 and my 650kg horse however am looking to upgrade to an equitrek trailer becaus of the living. My sorento tows 2800kg and I wondered as the equitreks have a 3000kg max weight, can I legally tow the trailer as my cars capacity doesn't tow the max weight limit? The equitreks weigh unladen 1360kg plus my horse 650kg plus fuel, me etc etc say 400kg tops, I'd be at about 2400kg so below my cars tow capacity.

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG, I currently tow a 511 and my 650kg horse however am looking to upgrade to an equitrek trailer becaus of the living. My sorento tows 2800kg and I wondered as the equitreks have a 3000kg max weight, can I legally tow the trailer as my cars capacity doesn't tow the max weight limit? The equitreks weigh unladen 1360kg plus my horse 650kg plus fuel, me etc etc say 400kg tops, I'd be at about 2400kg so below my cars tow capacity.

There is no law or rule which states that the manufacturers recommended towing capacity of a vehicle must be able to cope with the plated MAM of a trailer

There are plenty of internet myths about this though!

 

[ROG]

The max towing capacity listed for the vehicle and the GTW for the towing combination refer only to actual weights and have nothing to do with either vehicle GVW or trailer MAM plated weights

The vehicle GVW and trailer MAM plated weights refer to the max that each of them can be individually

This example would be 100% legal on a B+E licence (GVW+MAM=5800 so over the B licence 3500 limit)

Vehicle
GVW 2300
GTW 5000
Towing capacity 2700

Trailer
MAM 3500

As long as the actual weight of the vehicle does not exceed 2300 or the actual weight of the trailer exceed 2700 then that example is 100% legal


If anyone reading wishes to refute this then please link to and/or quote the law which states otherwise ..... good luck on finding such!

 

[Pipl]

Hi ROG,

I have a 07 plate Freelander2 which I believe has a GVW of around 1800kg, and a IW505, my horse weighs around 500kg. I think you have already answered this previously, but as there is some confusing literature around am I correct in thinking that this combination would not be legal under B licence because the combined car GVW plus trailer MAM is >3500kg (I do not currently have B + E). I have been to a weigh bridge and it came in at 3200kg. I think I can only tow under provisional licence rules, but a friend tows with a similar combination (but a slightly lighter trailer with MAM 2000kg) and said they spoke to DVLA and it is fine without provisional rules!

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG,

I have a 07 plate Freelander2 which I believe has a GVW of around 1800kg, and a IW505, my horse weighs around 500kg. I think you have already answered this previously, but as there is some confusing literature around am I correct in thinking that this combination would not be legal under B licence because the combined car GVW plus trailer MAM is >3500kg (I do not currently have B + E). I have been to a weigh bridge and it came in at 3200kg. I think I can only tow under provisional licence rules, but a friend tows with a similar combination (but a slightly lighter trailer with MAM 2000kg) and said they spoke to DVLA and it is fine without provisional rules!

I think you will find the 1800 is kerb/empty weight and the GVW is 2505 kg

With a GVW of 2505 the maximum plated MAM for a trailer on a B only licence is 995 kg so useless for the towing of any horse trailer

DVLA either did not have the correct info or they gave out the wrong info

 

[tobiano1984]

Hi ROG - I've just got an A4 Audi Avant estate with a tow bar, and just trying to work out what I can pull with it.

1. I have a B Licence
2. 1535kg unladen weight
3. 2010kg GVW
4. 1800kg max trailer weight braked

Can you recommend what if any trailer I can pull with a B licence? And also, if I take my B&E what trailer I could pull then?

Thanks!

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG - I've just got an A4 Audi Avant estate with a tow bar, and just trying to work out what I can pull with it.

1. I have a B Licence
2. 1535kg unladen weight
3. 2010kg GVW
4. 1800kg max trailer weight braked

Can you recommend what if any trailer I can pull with a B licence? And also, if I take my B&E what trailer I could pull then?

Thanks!

B licence = max trailer plated MAM of 1490 kg so something like a HB401/3 (just under 800 empty) down plated to say 1450 would leave 650+ for the load/horse

B+E licence = any trailer but when loaded the actual weight cannot exceed 1800 kg and then only if the trailer plated MAM is at least 1800 kg

 

[Pipl]

I think you will find the 1800 is kerb/empty weight and the GVW is 2505 kg

With a GVW of 2505 the maximum plated MAM for a trailer on a B only licence is 995 kg so useless for the towing of any horse trailer

DVLA either did not have the correct info or they gave out the wrong info

Thanks very much, that's settled an argument for me! However the DVLA do seem to have given out incorrect advice, which is concerning

 

[mischamoo]

Thank you for clarifyin ROG.

I have another Q as haven't been able to find the info anywhere but do you know how I find out the max nose weight of my car and the max hitch weight for my trailer? Do I need to contact the manufacturers?

 

[ROG]

Thank you for clarifyin ROG.

I have another Q as haven't been able to find the info anywhere but do you know how I find out the max nose weight of my car and the max hitch weight for my trailer? Do I need to contact the manufacturers?

You might be able to access that info by an internet search or by asking on a popular caravan forum - caravan dealers should know

 

[ROG]

Dear Rog, please help! Can a 32 year old legally tow a 400kg pony in an Ivor Williams 505, using a vauxhall Monterey 3.1?
Going mad here!
Thank you.

32 now means he was born in 1982 so was age 17 in 1997 so could not have a pre 97 licence - if my math is ok
Assuming that driver only has a B licence ....

Vehicle GVW about 2500 with trailer MAM about 2300 = 4800 so well over the 3500 B licence limit

 

[dollymix]

I have an Audi A4 s-line estate, 07 plate. My mare is approx 525kg

I passed in 2001, would I be allowed to tow her?

 

[ROG]

I have an Audi A4 s-line estate, 07 plate. My mare is approx 525kg

I passed in 2001, would I be allowed to tow her?

Need a bit more info ...
I need the top 2 figures on the weight plate which is usually hidden under the bonnet or in a door frame
or
The max permissible mass weight and the max permissible towing mass of the trailer weight from the V5 registered keepers document

I am fairly certain that you will be able to do so with the right trailer but cannot be certain until I get those numbers

 

[dollymix]

Thanks Rog - from the V5s it says :
"Technical permissible maximum towable mass of the trailer"
Braked 1500
unbraked 750

Max. permissible mass (exc. m/c) 2000

 

[ROG]

Thanks Rog - from the V5s it says :
"Technical permissible maximum towable mass of the trailer"
Braked 1500
unbraked 750

Max. permissible mass (exc. m/c) 2000

Not sure what (exc. m/c) means but will assume it means GVW is 2000 = seems about right

GVW of 2000 means you can have a trailer with a maximum plated MAM of 1500 and as the towing capacity is also 1500 then just happens to coincide

I bet the top 2 figures on the weight plate in your car are 2000 and 3500 ?? - take a look if you get the chance

2 examples of a trailer - there are more ..
HB401/3 which is about 800 empty and plated at 1600 - contact IW to down plate to 1500 which leaves 700 for the horse/load in the trailer
Bateson Derby is about 675 empty and plated at 1700 - contact Bateson to down plate to 1500 which leaves 825 for the horse/load in the trailer

All legal on a B licence


Towing with a non 4x4 is fine as long as you have no steep slippery hills or soft surfaces to tow on

 

[km-j]

1 - BE
2 - 1380
3 - 1940
4 - 1700
5 - 1600 or 2340
6 - 770 or 905

Can you please tell me if this is okay Audi A3 thanks and weight can carry on both trailers

 

[kinnygirl1]

Hi ROG

My little sister is looking at towing. She has B licence. What does down plating mean and how is it done? Does the manufacturer physically make the trailer lighter ? What us the advantage of doing this?

 

[ROG]

1 - BE
2 - 1380
3 - 1940
4 - 1700
5 - 1600 or 2340
6 - 770 or 905

Can you please tell me if this is okay Audi A3 thanks and weight can carry on both trailers

Payloads ...
HB 401/3 = 830 (1600-770=830)
HB 505 = 795 (1700-905=795)

If the HB401/3 was down plated to 1550 then it would be legal for a B licence driver to tow

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG

My little sister is looking at towing. She has B licence. What does down plating mean and how is it done? Does the manufacturer physically make the trailer lighter ? What us the advantage of doing this?

Down plating is done only by contact with the trailer manufacturer and reduces the payload = what the trailer can carry in it

In the post above I have given an example for a HB401/3

The Towing vehicle has a GVW of 1940 and the trailer a MAM of 1600 which is a total of 3540 so 40 too much for B licence towing
By contacting Ifor Williams in this case the trailer can be down plated from 1600 to 1550 so the total is now 3490 which is within the max of 3500 allowed for B towing

The payload for the trailer will be reduced from 830 to 780 but the actual weight of trailer remains the same 770

Does that answer your query? - if not then I will try to explain in another way

 

[ROG]

Another way of explaining down-plating for B licence towing


A trailer will have a plate stating what its maximum weight can be when fully loaded this is know as a the MAM
The trailer will have an empty (unladen) weight

The empty weight remains constant
The plated weight (max it can be when fully loaded) can be reduced by the trailer manufacturer only

A vehicle will also have a max weight it can be when fully loaded - this known as the GVW and is listed on the V5 registered keeper form as maximum authorised mass and on a plate usually hidden under the bonnet or in a door frame - The GVW is the top of the 4 figures on that plate

MAM and GVW mean the same thing as does a caravan MTPLM


The maximum total that a B licence driver can have when adding GVW and MAM together is 3500

If the vehicle has a GVW of 2200 then the maximum the trailer MAM can be is 1300

Taking the example of a vehicle with a GVW of 2200 and a HB401 which is 770 empty and has a MAM of 1600 we can see that the total is 3800 so needs to be reduced by 300

By contacting the manufacturer of HB401 we get the plate reduced from 1600 to 1300 and a new plate may need to be fitted by one of their dealers local to you or they may send you a new plate for you to organise fitting - swapping over the little metal plate on the trailer

With the original 1600 plate the trailer could be loaded with 830 (1600-770=830) but as it has been down plated to 1300 it can now only be loaded with 530 (1300-770=530)

In the down plated trailer we load a 500 horse so we have 770+500=1270 for the actual weight of the trailer which is within the 1300 limit


We now look at the towing capacity figure for the vehicle and see if it is allowed to tow the actual weight of 1270


I hope that helps

 

[Northern Hare]

Hi ROG, please would you mind if I asked a question on behalf of a friend please?

"I am thinking of buying the CRV 2.2 Auto diesel. I am looking at pulling a Bateson trailer at 860kg and a max of two 14.2 ponies so say 1000kg absolute maximum (and this is over estimating pony weights). So I am talking a total weight of 1860kg and the vehicle's max braked towing weight says 2000kg. The kerb weight is 1712-1806kg (not that I understand the relevance of Kerb weight).

Do you think this sounds suitable? I don't want to be feeling like the vehicle is struggling to do the job. I want it to be a safe towing vehicle but it also has to double up as the family car.

Alternatively, please do you have any better suggestions?

Many thanks!

 

[kinnygirl1]

Thank you for explaining the down plating... That does help a lot.

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG, please would you mind if I asked a question on behalf of a friend please?

"I am thinking of buying the CRV 2.2 Auto diesel. I am looking at pulling a Bateson trailer at 860kg and a max of two 14.2 ponies so say 1000kg absolute maximum (and this is over estimating pony weights). So I am talking a total weight of 1860kg and the vehicle's max braked towing weight says 2000kg. The kerb weight is 1712-1806kg (not that I understand the relevance of Kerb weight).

Do you think this sounds suitable? I don't want to be feeling like the vehicle is struggling to do the job. I want it to be a safe towing vehicle but it also has to double up as the family car.

Alternatively, please do you have any better suggestions?

Many thanks!

Should be absolutely fine

B+E licence required

As for economics - not my field