Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[xStephx]

Hi

I have a B license and was wondering if the following combination would be legal.

Nissan xtrail / Ford mondeo or similar with a bateson deauville unladen weight 860kg I think down plated but might put an Ali floor in to make it lighter.

Thanks

 

[ROG]

Hi

I have a B license and was wondering if the following combination would be legal.

Nissan xtrail / Ford mondeo or similar with a bateson deauville unladen weight 860kg I think down plated but might put an Ali floor in to make it lighter.

Thanks

The MAM of that trailer is 2300 kgs

assuming GVW of a xtrail is 2100 kgs

They total 4400 kgs so 900 over the 3500 b licence towing limit

Solution is easy - contact Bateson and get trailer down plated to 1400 so that 2100+1400=3500

As its 860 empty then 540 can be loaded into the trailer

The higher the vehicle GVW then the lower the trailer MAM has to be so the two added together do not total more than 3500

 

[xStephx]

The MAM of that trailer is 2300 kgs

assuming GVW of a xtrail is 2100 kgs

They total 4400 kgs so 900 over the 3500 b licence towing limit

Solution is easy - contact Bateson and get trailer down plated to 1400 so that 2100+1400=3500

As its 860 empty then 540 can be loaded into the trailer

The higher the vehicle GVW then the lower the trailer MAM has to be so the two added together do not total more than 3500

Thanks for that rog. I would be overweight then with a 560 - 580kg horse. Do you know of a lighter vehicle that might make it possible? Just I have seen the trailer and wouldn't mind buying it but don't want to if I'm not going to be legal.

Thanks

 

[ROG]

Thanks for that rog. I would be overweight then with a 560 - 580kg horse. Do you know of a lighter vehicle that might make it possible? Just I have seen the trailer and wouldn't mind buying it but don't want to if I'm not going to be legal.

Thanks

The Bateson Derby trailer is 675 empty so down plated from 1700 to 1350 would leave 675 for the load/horse

 

[xStephx]

The Bateson Derby trailer is 675 empty so down plated from 1700 to 1350 would leave 675 for the load/horse

Thanks rog. Ideally I would like a derby but with a limited budget and not many being around at the moment I might have to see what else there is.

What if the xtrail weighed 2000kg towing weight 1500kg and kerb weight 1515kg and trailer was down plated to 1500kg less 860kg unladen weight that leaves 640kg to load. Would this be right?
Thanks

 

[ROG]

Thanks rog. Ideally I would like a derby but with a limited budget and not many being around at the moment I might have to see what else there is.

What if the xtrail weighed 2000kg towing weight 1500kg and kerb weight 1515kg and trailer was down plated to 1500kg less 860kg unladen weight that leaves 640kg to load. Would this be right?
Thanks

YES but I think the xtrail GVW is nearer to 2100

 

[ROG]

This thread is currently looking for similar = http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...ose-with-a-Ifor-HB401&p=12493483#post12493483

 

[Ranyhyn]

ROG, what trailer can I tow with my freelander (2080) please? Preferably not a single trailer. With one 500kg cob

 

[KarlyHT]

Hi again ROG, really interesting article in your horse magazine regarding towing and it states that on a B licence you can only tow a trailer less than 750kg. Am I correct in thinking that this rule changed?

 

[KarlyHT]

http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums...9-03D5-4B80-8E0C-A93A81EF2AA8_zpsc7dozncb.jpg

 

[ROG]

Hi again ROG, really interesting article in your horse magazine regarding towing and it states that on a B licence you can only tow a trailer less than 750kg. Am I correct in thinking that this rule changed?

H&H is rubbish if it does say that - the law remains as it is and has been since 1997 - the 3500 law

 

[ROG]

ROG, what trailer can I tow with my freelander (2080) please? Preferably not a single trailer. With one 500kg cob

I assume 2080 is the GVW of the freelander so I will continue with that assumption ...

Any trailer would need to be say 1400 to make it simple so would need to be down plated via contact with the manufacturer

Bateson Derby is 675 empty so leaving 725 for the trailer load

Looking for something else then the minimum empty weight would need to be 850 so as to leave 550 for the load just in case the horse gets a little heavier or a few bits are put in the trailer with the horse

 

[ROG]

Email sent to H&H magazine editor in regards to what they wrote

 

[KarlyHT]

Thanks ROG. It was in the July edition of your horse.

 

[ROG]

Thanks ROG. It was in the July edition of your horse.

Ta - cancelled email to H&H and sent them one !

 

[gembear]

Hey ROG

Currently have a B licence, but would like to go out with the boy more often. Currently relying on others for transport, which isn't ideal and I don't like asking too much.

There could be an opportunity for me to borrow a trooper and iwilliams 510 trailer every so often. I've been doing some reading, but wanted to clarify the rules.

I can drive on provisional, so long as I have someone with either a pre 1997 license with me or who has done the BE test 3 years+ yes?
Do i have to drive with L plates and does the insurance need to be changed... ie. the troopers insurance OR will I be covered as i'm fully comp on my car?

Hope that makes sense, thanks!

 

[ROG]

Hey ROG

Currently have a B licence, but would like to go out with the boy more often. Currently relying on others for transport, which isn't ideal and I don't like asking too much.

There could be an opportunity for me to borrow a trooper and iwilliams 510 trailer every so often. I've been doing some reading, but wanted to clarify the rules.

I can drive on provisional, so long as I have someone with either a pre 1997 license with me or who has done the BE test 3 years+ yes?
Do i have to drive with L plates and does the insurance need to be changed... ie. the troopers insurance OR will I be covered as i'm fully comp on my car?

Hope that makes sense, thanks!

You have it spot on

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer

Correct insurance for a B+E learner - contact YOUR insurer to confirm you are covered and if not then you will need the insurer of the trooper to add you onto their insurance as a named learner B+E driver

 

[gembear]

Thanks ROG, good to know it's not impossible to get out.
Will give me some practice before I take my actual test (at some point......).

 

[tobiano1984]

Hi ROG,

I have a B licence, and an Audi A4 estate (2004, 1.9 TDI). What weight can I legally tow? I'd like to get out with one horse/pony (one is 500kg, one is 300kg) just to local venues. I don't have a trailer yet but can borrow an IW 505 or hire a trailer.
If I can't tow with a horse, is it legal to tow empty to practice for my B&E Test? Once I have B&E I will buy a 4x4.
Thanks!

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG,

I have a B licence, and an Audi A4 estate (2004, 1.9 TDI). What weight can I legally tow? I'd like to get out with one horse/pony (one is 500kg, one is 300kg) just to local venues. I don't have a trailer yet but can borrow an IW 505 or hire a trailer.
If I can't tow with a horse, is it legal to tow empty to practice for my B&E Test? Once I have B&E I will buy a 4x4.
Thanks!

Think I just posted on your other thread ?

There is one extra rule on top of all the other towing rules for the towing of a trailer over 750 kgs on a B only licence and that one extra rule is ...

... the GVW of the vehicle added to the trailer plated MAM must not total more than 3500 kgs

That is plated weights not actual weights because licences work on plated weights

You can use a B towing set up for the B+E test - seems silly but its legal to do

You can tow a B towing set up loaded on the motorway right now

You can tow a loaded B+E set up on the motorway if under the B+E provisional rules

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Hey, I was wondering if it was possible for you to figure out if this would work:

Mitsubishi Shogun Pinin - Kerb 1390, towing capacilty 1500

Ifor Williams 505

I would only take out a Shetland at 150kg or a tb at 500kg.

I have a B licence and passed my test in June 2013 - I think I read somewhere that if you passed after Jan 2013 you couldn't tow at all without a licence?

Any thoughts? Many thanks

 

[ROG]

Hey, I was wondering if it was possible for you to figure out if this would work:

Mitsubishi Shogun Pinin - Kerb 1390, towing capacilty 1500

Ifor Williams 505

I would only take out a Shetland at 150kg or a tb at 500kg.

I have a B licence and passed my test in June 2013 - I think I read somewhere that if you passed after Jan 2013 you couldn't tow at all without a licence?

Any thoughts? Many thanks

Yes you can tow on a B licence no matter when it was passed as the rules are the same for all

GVW of that model is 1890
Towing capacity 1500
Horse 500

You can use a HB401 or HB 403 for example without having it down plated because the plated MAM is 1600
1600+1890=3490 which is not above the 3500 limit

As you only have a 1500 towing capacity then the trailer can only be loaded to an actual weight of 1500 not 1600
That trailer weighs 800 max when empty so with a 500 horse that still only totals 1300 so well under your 1500 max

If you get a trailer with a plated MAM over 1600 then it would need down plating to 1600 via contact with the trailer manufacturer

 

[sillygillyhorse]

Help please ROG. Not towed for a very long time and contemplating doing so again but want to make sure it will be legal.

I passed before 97 so have B+E
Kerb weight appears to be 1505kg
Next figure I am not sure
Max towing capacity of car 1800kg
Trailer I am looking at is 750kg un laden
MAM of 2000kg.

Due to small car size only ever to take one 600kg horse, just fed up with using big lorry for short local runs with one horse!

Would that be legal or do I need to look for a cheval liberte single trailer with a lower MAM or have one downrated? Thanks

 

[ROG]

Help please ROG. Not towed for a very long time and contemplating doing so again but want to make sure it will be legal.

I passed before 97 so have B+E
Kerb weight appears to be 1505kg
Next figure I am not sure
Max towing capacity of car 1800kg
Trailer I am looking at is 750kg un laden
MAM of 2000kg.

Due to small car size only ever to take one 600kg horse, just fed up with using big lorry for short local runs with one horse!

Would that be legal or do I need to look for a cheval liberte single trailer with a lower MAM or have one downrated? Thanks

As you have a B+E then you have supplied the figures I need
Towing capacity 1800
Trailer MAM 2000
As the 1800 is the lower figure then that is the upper limit for the trailer when loaded

With a trailer weighing 750 and a horse weighing 600 then that is 1350 so well within the 1800 limit


EASILY LEGAL

PS - as you car is going to actually weigh 1500+ when towing then its always going to be heavier than the trailer and although that is not a legal requirement it can be a safety one

If normal car then be careful what surfaces you tow on - wet grass with a non 4x4 can get tricky !

 

[sillygillyhorse]

EASILY LEGAL

PS - as you car is going to actually weigh 1500+ when towing then its always going to be heavier than the trailer and although that is not a legal requirement it can be a safety one

If normal car then be careful what surfaces you tow on - wet grass with a non 4x4 can get tricky ![/QUOTE]


Thanks ROG. Was getting confused with it all as it has all changed - for the good I think!

It is a bmw 3 series tourer so aware it isn't the most ideal tow vehicle. Will be used for vet trips and odd outing to equestrian centres with hard standing areas. I see it as a cheaper alternative to running my Hgv with one horse on.

My other option is to downgrade to a 4.5t that will legally carry 2 and can tow 2000kg. That way I can take 2 horses and if need be tow a caravan. Leaning towards that scenario as have practicality of small lorry with option of towing trailer or caravan. I know you can upgrade a 3.5t to 3.9t but that still not enough payload. Can you take a 3.5t up to 4.5t or do I have to buy a 4.5t chassis? Getting mixed information on this.

Many thanks for your help, much appreciated.

 

[ROG]

To up rate from 3.5 to 4.5 is likely to need a lot of work on the vehicle so its probably cheaper to get a ready made one

Down rating a LGV C1 vehicle (a vehicle from 3.5 to 7.5) is pointless - I cannot see what you gain by that unless you wish to tow a trailer over 750 kgs with a pre 1997 LGV C1+E 107 code licence

 

[sillygillyhorse]

Thought that might be case with chassis. Not looking to downgrade a 7.5t but to sell the 18t Hgv and start again as it were with the 4.5t. I have C1+E which if have 4.5t 2horse little lorry gives me practicality and reduced cost but still option of towing extra horses if needed or a caravan if I want to go back to doing stay away shows. Thoughts on that set up welcome

 

[ROG]

Thought that might be case with chassis. Not looking to downgrade a 7.5t but to sell the 18t Hgv and start again as it were with the 4.5t. I have C1+E which if have 4.5t 2horse little lorry gives me practicality and reduced cost but still option of towing extra horses if needed or a caravan if I want to go back to doing stay away shows. Thoughts on that set up welcome

I deffo agree about getting rid of the LGV C because that is under full EU TACHO regs whereas a C1 is exempt where private LGV driving is concerned

If you get a 4.5 tonne GVW horsebox van which has a good GTW then you could tow a 3.0 tonne MAM trailer/caravan behind it on your pre 1997 LGV C1+E 107 code category on your licence
I say 4.5 + 3.0 because that keeps you out of tacho regs


If you let the D4 medical lapse for your LGV C then do not worry because to get it back all you need to do is to pass a D4 medical at any time in the future - no tests etc - just the medical

 

[Goldenstar]

ROG ,
Still trying to sort future transport .
Looking at a two horse lorry on the seven ton van chassis .
Could we tow a small car behind it and what weight could this be ?
We would not be wanting to have horses on board when we where looking to tow a car.

 

[ROG]

ROG ,
Still trying to sort future transport .
Looking at a two horse lorry on the seven ton van chassis .
Could we tow a small car behind it and what weight could this be ?
We would not be wanting to have horses on board when we where looking to tow a car.

I am going to ASSUME for this answer that you have a pre 1997 car licence only with all the free categories that came with it

If you have a lorry which has a GVW of 7500 then you can only tow 750 plated MAM/GVW behind it = C1+E 107 code
OR
If you have a lorry which has a GVW of 7000 then you can only tow 1250 plated MAM/GVW behind it = C1+E 107 code

Having the vehicle loaded or not makes no difference to the answers given because the plated weights will not have changed