Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[ROG]

Sorry, didn't explain very well! I meant good for towing heavier things? So if my carriage driver gets a team together either two horses in trailer or carriage - ponies not particularly heavy (under 12hh) but carriage more so (although I don't know exact weight). Would the high MAM be good for heavier trailer load I think is what I am asking. Also I am assuming the Defender is a good towing vehicle should it be used as such

Ah so the C+E would cover towing then? But would the E cover driving with the Defender or just a lorry? (Also is LGV over 7.5t?) Not particularly fussed about the B towing as plenty of people/friends qualified for towing so I am trying to work out whether to get the 7.5t + lorry test or a trailer test or combo of both really You really are a fount of knowledge ROG

or C1+E if towing with a 7.5

Getting any +E will give B+E for life

Higher the trailer MAM and lower the trailer empty weight = more payload that can be put in the trailer

The vehicle towing capacity or max actual weight that can be pulled by the vehicle will also need to be taken into account

 

[Kylara]

Thanks so much ROG!

I'll be saving up for the C1+E then!

Excellent nice to know how the payload works out with my HB505 - will have a look into it

Any idea what the max towing weight for the Defender would be with a +E? I always find the DVLA website useless for everything and struggle to find the info I need - the OH is the car person but he is less fussed about the whole towing thing other than "yeah, do that. Would be handy for carting insulation around for the house renovation"!

I really appreciate all your help with this, you have made it make quite a bit more sense!

 

[ROG]

Thanks so much ROG!

I'll be saving up for the C1+E then!

Excellent nice to know how the payload works out with my HB505 - will have a look into it

Any idea what the max towing weight for the Defender would be with a +E? I always find the DVLA website useless for everything and struggle to find the info I need - the OH is the car person but he is less fussed about the whole towing thing other than "yeah, do that. Would be handy for carting insulation around for the house renovation"!

I really appreciate all your help with this, you have made it make quite a bit more sense!

Max braked towing for a defender is 3500 kg = http://vanleasingmadesimple.com/van-leasing/land-rover/defender/max-towing-weight-braked/

HB505 = http://www.towinghorsetrailers.co.uk/trailer/1063
Empty 905
MAM 2340
Payload 1435 kg

Getting C1+E means doing 2 LGV tests - C1 then C1+E = between £2000 and £3000
It costs just a little more to do C then C+E which covers the above
You then have the medical to keep current

Getting B+E will cost between £600 and £700 in most cases
It will also last for life and needs no theory or medical


To see more about LGV take a look at the LGV link in my signature below

 

[Kylara]

Thanks for that, really helpful.

So really it would be worth getting the C then C+E and operators licence for a bit more money (more saving up!) rather than the C1+E as that still restricts you to 7.5t which is a small lorry. Or would it be worth doing the C and then a B+E? As it would be unlikely to have to tow with a big lorry (although saying that, if she gets her big team and a coach we would need a big lorry and a carriage towing trailer so hmmm). I would still need the medical for the C though.

You really are a fabulous source of really excellent and helpful information, thanks

 

[ROG]

Thanks for that, really helpful.

So really it would be worth getting the C then C+E and operators licence for a bit more money (more saving up!) rather than the C1+E as that still restricts you to 7.5t which is a small lorry. Or would it be worth doing the C and then a B+E? As it would be unlikely to have to tow with a big lorry (although saying that, if she gets her big team and a coach we would need a big lorry and a carriage towing trailer so hmmm). I would still need the medical for the C though.

You really are a fabulous source of really excellent and helpful information, thanks

Medical then ongoing medicals for any LGV

You have to decide what your needs will be and then get the licences that meet those needs

 

[Kylara]

Excellent, thanks!
Just got to save up for it all now!
Probably the C+E. Not fussed about medical as I am fit and healthy as that should cover all eventualities. The only issue would be remembering to fill in details for 7.5t + lorries and fulfilling the working hours stuff (although shouldn't be too tough as a freelance). It would be worth having even so that we could share the lorry driving once we start going carriage driving eventing

 

[ROG]

Excellent, thanks!
Just got to save up for it all now!
Probably the C+E. Not fussed about medical as I am fit and healthy as that should cover all eventualities. The only issue would be remembering to fill in details for 7.5t + lorries and fulfilling the working hours stuff (although shouldn't be too tough as a freelance). It would be worth having even so that we could share the lorry driving once we start going carriage driving eventing

If going for C+E then tick C & D only on the D2 form

 

[Kylara]

If going for C+E then tick C & D only on the D2 form

Haha I have to save the money up first!

But thanks for that, forms are always a nightmare!

 

[pickwickayr]

Hello I was wondering if this combination is legal with a B license -
Trailer weight is 750kg
Trailer MAM is 1700kgs
Car is Audi 1.9tdi 2009
towing capacity 1500kgs
Kerbweight 1350kgs

pony is 14.2hh weighing 450kgs .

 

[ROG]

Hello I was wondering if this combination is legal with a B license -
Trailer weight is 750kg
Trailer MAM is 1700kgs
Car is Audi 1.9tdi 2009
towing capacity 1500kgs
Kerbweight 1350kgs

pony is 14.2hh weighing 450kgs .

I am going to ASSUME the Audi GVW is about 2000 kg - that is the top of the 4 weights on the plate usually hidden under the bonnet or in a door frame

If that 2000 GVW is correct then adding the 1700 trailer MAM gives a total of 3700 which is 200 too much for B towing

SOLUTION - contact trailer manufacturer and down plate trailer to 1500 which would still leave 750 kgs for the trailer load/horse

 

[samlf]

I think I am asking the impossible - but wondering what car I can buy that can tow 1800kg (or possible 1700), that has an MAM of <1700kg (so that I could tow on the B licence)?

I would rather avoid estates if possible, and that isn't too expensive to buy 2nd hand. The few I have come up with are - Audi A4 (but only the estate version as need a good boot for the dogs), Audi A3 (but think towing capacity will be too low) Mondeo estate.

 

[ROG]

I think I am asking the impossible - but wondering what car I can buy that can tow 1800kg (or possible 1700), that has an MAM of <1700kg (so that I could tow on the B licence)?

I would rather avoid estates if possible, and that isn't too expensive to buy 2nd hand. The few I have come up with are - Audi A4 (but only the estate version as need a good boot for the dogs), Audi A3 (but think towing capacity will be too low) Mondeo estate.

A quick check reveals that all of those cars are nearer to 2000 GVW

I reckon its impossible

Are you trying to tow a trailer with 2 horses in it?

 

[samlf]

No, just a trailer with one horse but it's a 16hh ID and I would say upper weight of 600kg. I can't find any trailers with less than 950kg unloaded weight unless I'm looking at the wrong figures?

Or are there any small 4x4s that could do it?

 

[ROG]

No, just a trailer with one horse but it's a 16hh ID and I would say upper weight of 600kg. I can't find any trailers with less than 950kg unloaded weight unless I'm looking at the wrong figures?

Or are there any small 4x4s that could do it?

you are referring to ACTUAL weights but licencing laws go on PLATED weights

You need a trailer with a low empty weight and perhaps a plated MAM of 1500 if the vehicle is 2000 max GVW

If necessary contact manufacturer and down plate one of these to 1500

http://www.towinghorsetrailers.co.uk/trailer/1014

http://www.jswhorseboxes.co.uk/transport/horse-trailers/new-trailers/cheval-liberte-gt1-3.htm

http://www.chevaltrailers.co.uk/single-mare-foal.html


This car might tick all the boxes = http://carleasingmadesimple.com/bus...octavia-diesel-estate_3/60610/technical-data/

 

[ROG]

I did this thread a short while ago = https://forums-secure.horseandhound...s-one-idea-for-a-B-only-licence-towing-set-up

 

[samlf]

Thanks ROG - I am aware that plated weight is what is important and that you can get a trailer down-plated but I couldn't seem to find any trailers less than about 950kg unladen which doesn't give you much to play with.

The bateson derby looks ideal on paper but in reality I cant find any for sale anywhere so looks like they're very difficult to get hold of (which would probably mean when you do find one they're very expensive!).
Don't think I could afford a cheval liberte, and they also seem difficult to get hold of 2nd hand.

so I think options are 4x4 and do trailer test, or get 3.5t or do C1.

I am likely to have to take C1 in the near future anyway, so perhaps it'd be better to get a 4.5/5t so I can take both horses out. It's just that I don't go out often enough and I worry the lorry would keep going wrong due to sitting for long periods of time.

 

[ROG]

Thanks ROG - I am aware that plated weight is what is important and that you can get a trailer down-plated but I couldn't seem to find any trailers less than about 950kg unladen which doesn't give you much to play with.

The bateson derby looks ideal on paper but in reality I cant find any for sale anywhere so looks like they're very difficult to get hold of (which would probably mean when you do find one they're very expensive!).
Don't think I could afford a cheval liberte, and they also seem difficult to get hold of 2nd hand.

so I think options are 4x4 and do trailer test, or get 3.5t or do C1.

I am likely to have to take C1 in the near future anyway, so perhaps it'd be better to get a 4.5/5t so I can take both horses out. It's just that I don't go out often enough and I worry the lorry would keep going wrong due to sitting for long periods of time.

If you get C1 then consider getting C1+E afterwards as that will also give B+E for life

check out the LGV link in my signature below before proceeding to LGV C1

 

[samlf]

Thanks, I have already got C1 hazard perception and theory passed, and been and had a test drive and quote for training but going to wait until early next year to get it done I think.

 

[ROG]

Thanks, I have already got C1 hazard perception and theory passed, and been and had a test drive and quote for training but going to wait until early next year to get it done I think.

Avoid brokers/middlemen - always visit before parting with any money

 

[ROG]

ROG, according to http://www.towinghorsetrailers.co.uk/index.htm I can tow my 590kg horse in a Ifor Williams 505 with a Ford Focus 2.0tdci with a b + e licence! do you agree?

I don't have the licence yet but will do some training and apply for the test if I know the car is capable


Ford (Focus 2.0 litre TDCi 4 door saloon)


Ford (Focus 2.0 litre TDCi 4 door saloon)Capable of towing: 1500.00 kg

http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasing/ford/focus/towing-weight-limit/
According to the above link it has a towing capacity of 1500
The HB505 has an empty weight of 905 plus horse 590 = 1490
As that is legal but so close to the maximum I would suggest a trip to a weighbridge to see if it is ok

 

[ROG]

Great post! I'm probably being extremely dumb, but I currently have a 62 plate ix35 1.6 petrol. I believe the braked towing limit is 1,200kg, would this be enough to tow anything with on a B licence or do I need to look to sell car/take my trailer test?

http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasing/hyundai/ix35-estate/62140/technical-data/ - is that your car?
GVW 1830
Towing capacity 1200
The trailer I would suggest is a Bateson Derby which is 675 empty so could take a 500 kg horse - JUST

With your GVW of 1830 you would need the trailer down plating from its 1700 MAM to anything between 1200 and 1670 kg

down plating to 1600 would be my recommendation but you are still limited to an actual weight when loaded of 1200 due to the lower towing capacity figure

 

[FestiveFuzz]

http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasing/hyundai/ix35-estate/62140/technical-data/ - is that your car?
GVW 1830
Towing capacity 1200
The trailer I would suggest is a Bateson Derby which is 675 empty so could take a 500 kg horse - JUST

With your GVW of 1830 you would need the trailer down plating from its 1700 MAM to anything between 1200 and 1670 kg

down plating to 1600 would be my recommendation but you are still limited to an actual weight when loaded of 1200 due to the lower towing capacity figure

Thanks ROG! My car is this one - http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasing/hyundai/ix35-estate/ but think the towing capacity is still the same.

 

[ROG]

Thanks ROG! My car is this one - http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasing/hyundai/ix35-estate/ but think the towing capacity is still the same.

That link lists many models not your specific one

If the GVW as well as the towing capacity is the same then my previous answer still applies

 

[[59668]]

How about this set up for a B licence only:

Cheval Liberte 1 horse trailer. 720kg unladen and a max weight of 1600kg, giving a payload of more than enough!

Mitsubishi Shogun old style SWB, kerb weight 1735kg, and max braked towing weight of 2.8kg.

Car+trailer = 3,335kg, so less than 3,500kg

kerb weight car > max weight trailer so that's ok too?

 

[ROG]

How about this set up for a B licence only:

Cheval Liberte 1 horse trailer. 720kg unladen and a max weight of 1600kg, giving a payload of more than enough!

Mitsubishi Shogun old style SWB, kerb weight 1735kg, and max braked towing weight of 2.8kg.

Car+trailer = 3,335kg, so less than 3,500kg

kerb weight car > max weight trailer so that's ok too?

If the kerb weight is 1735 then the GVW is going to be at about 2300 kg

2300 GVW + 1600 MAM = 3900 kg so well over 3500 limit

 

[ROG]

shogun/Pajero specs - right click and select all to see the white coloured text
http://www.pocuk.com/faq/specs.htm

 

[DJ]

Hello ROG ... Hoping you can help me with this as i`m turning myself inside out over it ... I can`t do the test, not because I can`t drive or reverse, but because I go to pieces because it`s a "test" (and get in such a state it`s just silly) and so i`m try to find a way around it if I can, using my swb Pajero + any trailer combination that would work? ... (I have a dock licence and drive both artics and rigid tippers so it`s not like I can`t drive)

I would need -

1 - What licence they hold - B or BE

B (normal car)

2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle

2020kg (put on the weigh bridge with full tank of fuel)

3 - GVW of the towing vehicle

I don`t know this ... it`s a 94 swb Pajero.

4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle

Towing capacity is 2.5t

5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres:

Hoping you can help me out here, I think the Bateson Derby is going to be the best one to give me a legal combination?

6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer

On another thread I think you said 675kg? (max id 1700 but can be down plated to 1500?)

 

[ROG]

Hello ROG ... Hoping you can help me with this as i`m turning myself inside out over it ... I can`t do the test, not because I can`t drive or reverse, but because I go to pieces because it`s a "test" (and get in such a state it`s just silly) and so i`m try to find a way around it if I can, using my swb Pajero + any trailer combination that would work? ... (I have a dock licence and drive both artics and rigid tippers so it`s not like I can`t drive)

I would need -

1 - What licence they hold - B or BE

B (normal car)

2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle

2020kg (put on the weigh bridge with full tank of fuel)

3 - GVW of the towing vehicle

I don`t know this ... it`s a 94 swb Pajero.

4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle

Towing capacity is 2.5t

5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres:

Hoping you can help me out here, I think the Bateson Derby is going to be the best one to give me a legal combination?

6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer

On another thread I think you said 675kg? (max id 1700 but can be down plated to 1500?)

Which model is yours from this list - http://www.automobile-catalog.com/make/mitsubishi/pajero_2gen/pajero_2gen_export_3d/1994.html

I am going to ASSUME it is one with the 2300 GVW and not the one with a 2350 GVW

The max GVW (car) + MAM (trailer) is 3500 for B towing so 3500 minus 2300 = 1200 for trailer MAM

Bateson Derby trailer
Empty 675 kg
MAM 1700 but down plated to 1200*

* Contact Bateson on 0161 4260 500 and send them the 1700 plate off the trailer with £10
On receipt they will make up the new 1200 plate and send it to you to fix onto the trailer

The trailer can be loaded with 525 kg which if you have a horse very near that weight it could be very close so you need to get the exact weight of the horse and anything else you intend to load into that trailer

 

[DJ]

Which model is yours from this list - http://www.automobile-catalog.com/make/mitsubishi/pajero_2gen/pajero_2gen_export_3d/1994.html

I am going to ASSUME it is one with the 2300 GVW and not the one with a 2350 GVW

The max GVW (car) + MAM (trailer) is 3500 for B towing so 3500 minus 2300 = 1200 for trailer MAM

Bateson Derby trailer
Empty 675 kg
MAM 1700 but down plated to 1200*

* Contact Bateson on 0161 4260 500 and send them the 1700 plate off the trailer with £10
On receipt they will make up the new 1200 plate and send it to you to fix onto the trailer

The trailer can be loaded with 525 kg which if you have a horse very near that weight it could be very close so you need to get the exact weight of the horse and anything else you intend to load into that trailer

You really are a legend

How ever sadly mine is this one:

http://www.automobile-catalog.com/c...hi_pajero_2800_td_intercooler_gls_3-door.html

Which is a GVW of 2510kg, so definitely not doable ... gutted

 

[ROG]

You really are a legend

How ever sadly mine is this one:

http://www.automobile-catalog.com/c...hi_pajero_2800_td_intercooler_gls_3-door.html

Which is a GVW of 2510kg, so definitely not doable ... gutted

Solution is a different towing vehicle with a lower GVW