Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[Rides]

Helpfully advised via another thread to post on here! answers much appreciated as im now holding out hope that i can avoid taking a test OR paying to run a 3.5t box!

this is the line from gov.uk: "if you passed your test after 1997 you can....tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined weight of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg"

So if you say had a IW 403 which has an unladen weight of 767, and a nissan xtrail which weighs just over 1500 kg.... total weight under 2300kg? even if its laden, 700kg of horse would only take this up to 3000kg..... am i missing something or would this be totally legal?

 

[ROG]

Helpfully advised via another thread to post on here! answers much appreciated as im now holding out hope that i can avoid taking a test OR paying to run a 3.5t box!

this is the line from gov.uk: "if you passed your test after 1997 you can....tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined weight of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg"

So if you say had a IW 403 which has an unladen weight of 767, and a nissan xtrail which weighs just over 1500 kg.... total weight under 2300kg? even if its laden, 700kg of horse would only take this up to 3000kg..... am i missing something or would this be totally legal?

Licences go on plated weights not actual weights

The DVLA has missed out the word MAM as usual !

Put simply - to tow a trailer over 750 kg plated MAM on a B licence the one extra rule on top of all the usual towing rules is that the vehicle plated GVW added to the trailer plated MAM must not total more than 3500 kg

GVW MAM MTPLM all mean the same thing = the maximum permitted legal weight something can be when fully loaded

 

[ROG]

IW HB403 has a plated MAM of 1600 kg
Nissan Xtrail has a GVW of about 2200 kg - need exact model to get definitive
That a total MAM of 3800 kg so 300 too much

SOLUTION
Contact IW and for about £50 they will get the 403 down plated to 1300

As the HB403 is about 770 empty then it can take a load of 530 kg (1300-770=530) which if you have a horse about 500 kg could end up being very close on being legal

This has been calculated on the assumption that the Xtrail GVW is 2200

A Bateson Derby down plated would give about 630 payload for trailer because it is about 100 kg lighter empty than the 403

 

[rising_promise]

Hi Rog, looking into buying a 4x4 and trailer. I like the Kia Sorento and would want an Equitrek Space Treka. I think the stats are as follows:

1- B + E (well I don't yet but will have to take my test!)
2- 2000
3-2510
4- 3500 (according to Autorader?!)
5- I can't find this, or don't know what it means?!
6) 1120

Can you let me know if this would be OK. I would wan to tow my 500kg horse and possibly another of a similar weight

Thank you

 

[ROG]

Hi Rog, looking into buying a 4x4 and trailer. I like the Kia Sorento and would want an Equitrek Space Treka. I think the stats are as follows:

1- B + E (well I don't yet but will have to take my test!)
2- 2000
3-2510
4- 3500 (according to Autorader?!)
5- I can't find this, or don't know what it means?! = 2500 kg
6) 1120

Can you let me know if this would be OK. I would wan to tow my 500kg horse and possibly another of a similar weight

Thank you

This trekka? = http://www.equi-trek.com/uk/horse-trailers/space-treka-m/info

with B+E you can load 1370 into the trailer in that link 2500-1130=1370 and as the towing capacity is 3500 then the 2500 is the limit as its the lower figure

 

[rising_promise]

This trekka? = http://www.equi-trek.com/uk/horse-trailers/space-treka-m/info

with B+E you can load 1370 into the trailer in that link 2500-1130=1370 and as the towing capacity is 3500 then the 2500 is the limit as its the lower figure

Thank you. Yes, that's the trailer.

So that's OK then as a combo? Just got to take (and pass!) my trailer test now!

I took my C1 a while ago as have been driving a 7.5t but have now decided a 4x4 and trailer might be the better option.

 

[ROG]

So that's OK then as a combo?

YES

 

[rising_promise]

Thanks very much for taking the time to help Rog, hugely appreciated

 

[tobiano1984]

Hi ROG,

I've just bought a new trailer and will be taking my B+E licence soon and getting a 4x4, but in the meantime I wondered if it's worth downplating it so I can tow 1 horse:

1 - B Licence
2 - 1535kg (Audi A4 Avant, 1.9TDI diesel)
3 - 2010kg
4 - 1800kg on gradient 8% and under, 1600kg on 12% and under
5 - 2300kg (Bateson Deauville)
6 - 860kg

Thanks!

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG,

I've just bought a new trailer and will be taking my B+E licence soon and getting a 4x4, but in the meantime I wondered if it's worth downplating it so I can tow 1 horse:

1 - B Licence
2 - 1535kg (Audi A4 Avant, 1.9TDI diesel)
3 - 2010kg
4 - 1800kg on gradient 8% and under, 1600kg on 12% and under
5 - 2300kg (Bateson Deauville)
6 - 860kg

Thanks!

Down plating from 2300 to 1490 will leave a trailer payload of 630 kg

You can then up plate it again when you get B+E

Contact Bateson on 0161 4260 500 and send them the 2300 plate off the trailer with £10
On receipt they will make up the new 1490 plate and send it to you to fix onto the trailer

They may only give you a 1400 or 1450 option for the plate but both are ok (just with 1400) for a 500 kg horse

 

[DJ]

Hey ROG ... I`m hoping you can help me. I have an old Rice Richardson trailer, not that it resembles 1 anymore, as it`s been stripped back to the chassis and frame and rebuilt as it was wood planks and had rotted out. It never had a plate on it to begin with, and I didn`t know it needed one, but obviously I now know they do ... and now it`s nearly finished being refurbed I want to order one.

Question is, what do I need on it? .... these are the tyres that are on it (there`s 4 of them):

We did try and get some of the info from Richardsons at York but they have gone bankrupt.

Thanks in advance

 

[ROG]

Hey ROG ... I`m hoping you can help me. I have an old Rice Richardson trailer, not that it resembles 1 anymore, as it`s been stripped back to the chassis and frame and rebuilt as it was wood planks and had rotted out. It never had a plate on it to begin with, and I didn`t know it needed one, but obviously I now know they do ... and now it`s nearly finished being refurbed I want to order one.

Question is, what do I need on it? .... these are the tyres that are on it (there`s 4 of them):

We did try and get some of the info from Richardsons at York but they have gone bankrupt.

Thanks in advance

What is the total of all the tyre load ratings? = http://www.blackcircles.com/general/load-rating

ONLY the manufacturer can make a legal plate for a trailer so its never going to have one now and the tyre load ratings total will be its MAM to a max of 3500 kg

 

[DJ]

What is the total of all the tyre load ratings? = http://www.blackcircles.com/general/load-rating

ONLY the manufacturer can make a legal plate for a trailer so its never going to have one now and the tyre load ratings total will be its MAM to a max of 3500 kg

I don`t know what the load ratings are now as i`m at home but will try and get them tomorrow. As Richardsons are no more, and it doesn`t have one, and you say it`s never going to have one what does that mean? That I have to scrap it after just refurbing it?

 

[ROG]

I don`t know what the load ratings are now as i`m at home but will try and get them tomorrow. As Richardsons are no more, and it doesn`t have one, and you say it`s never going to have one what does that mean? That I have to scrap it after just refurbing it?

You can use it legally with no plate - the tyre load rating total is the MAM with a max ceiling limit of 3500 should they total more than 3500

 

[DJ]

You can use it legally with no plate - the tyre load rating total is the MAM with a max ceiling limit of 3500 should they total more than 3500

Ah ok, sorry, I thought it was illegal to use a trailer with out a plate on it. Thank you again .... **bows down to the oracle**

 

[ROG]

Sorry to hijack the thread but I need ROG's help please!!

How about a vehicle that weighs 1422kg, a horse that weighs 500kg and a trailer that weighs 715kg?

Would that be allowed on a B only licence?

What is GVW of vehicle? - found on a plate usually hidden under bonnet or in a door frame - also listed as max permissable mass on V5 keepers form

What is plated MAM of trailer? - largest figure on the silver weight plate usually found on the A frame between main trailer and tow hitch

Failing that - give me exact model of vehicle and trailer

 

[Cheshire Chestnut]

What is GVW of vehicle? - found on a plate usually hidden under bonnet or in a door frame - also listed as max permissable mass on V5 keepers form

What is plated MAM of trailer? - largest figure on the silver weight plate usually found on the A frame between main trailer and tow hitch

Failing that - give me exact model of vehicle and trailer

Thank you. I'm not sure on the numbers but this is the car/trailer:
http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/111679019/cheval-liberte-1003xl.html - the same model as this

VW Golf TDI 2.0 56 plate.

Horse is a 14:2h Welsh D and weighs no more than 500kg

Please don't be cross if it's not suitable to pull a trailer - I can always change cars

Thank you.

 

[ROG]

Thank you. I'm not sure on the numbers but this is the car/trailer:
http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/111679019/cheval-liberte-1003xl.html - the same model as this

VW Golf TDI 2.0 56 plate.

Horse is a 14:2h Welsh D and weighs no more than 500kg

Please don't be cross if it's not suitable to pull a trailer - I can always change cars

Thank you.

This trailer? = http://www.towinghorsetrailers.co.uk/trailer/1024
Max gross weight (MAM) 1400 kg
Unlaiden weight (EMPTY) 655 kg
Max trailer payload 745 kg

This car? = http://www.usedcarexpert.co.uk/cars/volkswagen/golf/specs-stats/dimensions/
Volkswagen Golf GT 2.0 TDI 3dr + 5dr
Gross Weight = 1920 Kg
Towing Limit = 1500 Kg

1920+1400=3320 so well under the 3500 limit for B towing

If those are the correct one then you are 100% legal to tow on a B licence = YIPPEE

 

[Cheshire Chestnut]

This trailer? = http://www.towinghorsetrailers.co.uk/trailer/1024
Max gross weight (MAM) 1400 kg
Unlaiden weight (EMPTY) 655 kg
Max trailer payload 745 kg

This car? = http://www.usedcarexpert.co.uk/cars/volkswagen/golf/specs-stats/dimensions/
Volkswagen Golf GT 2.0 TDI 3dr + 5dr
Gross Weight = 1920 Kg
Towing Limit = 1500 Kg

1920+1400=3320 so well under the 3500 limit for B towing

If those are the correct one then you are 100% legal to tow on a B licence = YIPPEE

Yes those are the ones!! The trailer isn't a brand new one but it's about 6 years old, still the same weight as the one on this link.

Yipeee! Thank you Need to get a tow bar fitted now....

 

[Rides]

Licences go on plated weights not actual weights

The DVLA has missed out the word MAM as usual !

Put simply - to tow a trailer over 750 kg plated MAM on a B licence the one extra rule on top of all the usual towing rules is that the vehicle plated GVW added to the trailer plated MAM must not total more than 3500 kg

GVW MAM MTPLM all mean the same thing = the maximum permitted legal weight something can be when fully loaded

Hi thanks for your response, its very confusing! so, if i have a car that weighs 1525kg ( i think the GVW is around 2100 but cant find official source?) , a trailer weighing 1ton + a horse of 600kg... not allowed?

 

[ROG]

Hi thanks for your response, its very confusing! so, if i have a car that weighs 1525kg ( i think the GVW is around 2100 but cant find official source?) , a trailer weighing 1ton + a horse of 600kg... not allowed?

It might be but unless you have the plated GVW of the vehicle and the plated MAM of the trailer so you can add them together then you will never be certain you are legal

PS - if you have a vehicle GVW of 2100 and a trailer plated at 1600 MAM (for 1000 empty trailer and 600 kg horse it would need to be at least that) then that total is at least 3700 so over the 3500 max

Ignore the empty weight of the vehicle and trailer as they have nothing to do with this

 

[ROG]

Hi thanks for your response, its very confusing! so, if i have a car that weighs 1525kg ( i think the GVW is around 2100 but cant find official source?) , a trailer weighing 1ton + a horse of 600kg... not allowed?

What exact model of car do you have because I will find its specs on the internet

Better still - usually under the bonnet or hidden in a door frame will be the plate for the vehicle and the GVW is the top of the 4 figures listed

Find that GVW on the plate then deduct that figure from 3500
Lets say its 2100 GVW so 3500-2100=1400
That 1400 will be the max that a trailer can be max plated at = the MAM

If the trailer is plated at 1400 and weighs 750 empty then it can take a load of 650 (1400-750=650)

If the car is 1550 empty and has a GVW of 2100 then it can take a load of 550 (2100-1550=550)

 

[Always-Riding]

Question...

I haven't done my B+E test (yet) and can't quite afford to until the summer. I have driven with a horse trailer with a supervisor but that person is no longer available.. well it was my Dad, who now lives 3 hours away...

Anyway, I've read a few posts and it's possible to tow a single trailer with a light 4x4/car. Is this right?
If so, could you give me an example of vehicle?

 

[ROG]

I've read a few posts and it's possible to tow a single trailer with a light 4x4/car. Is this right?
If so, could you give me an example of vehicle?

Before we start let me tell you of the one extra rule on top of all the usual towing rules when towing a trailer over 750 kg plated MAM on a B licence .....
..... the vehicle GVW added to the trailer plated MAM must not total more than 3500 kg



Ideas for a B licence towing set up

Skoda Octavia 4x4 1.6 diesel
GVW 1998 kg
Towing capacity 2000 kg

Bateson Derby trailer
Empty 675 kg
MAM 1700 but down plated to 1500*

* Contact Bateson on 0161 4260 500 and send them the 1700 plate off the trailer with £10
On receipt they will make up the new 1500 plate and send it to you to fix onto the trailer

The trailer can be loaded with 825 kg

The vehicle makes for a reasonably economical commuting car

Another more ‘beefy’ 4X4 is the Suzuki Grand Vitara
GVW 2190 kg
Towing capacity 2000

Using the same Bateson Derby trailer down plated to 1300 would leave a trailer payload of 625 kg

These links may help
http://carleasingmadesimple.com/bus...octavia-diesel-estate_3/60610/technical-data/
http://www.towinghorsetrailers.co.uk/trailer/1014
http://www.batesontrailers.com/contact-us/
http://carleasingmadesimple.com/bus...-vitara-diesel-estate_2/58681/technical-data/

 

[ROG]

Always-Riding what vehicle and trailer do you have now?

 

[DragonSlayer]

Not really a towing question, more a general driving question if I may be so bold ROG!

My son is 17 on Monday and he has his 1st driving lesson Wednesday (eeeeek!)

We have bought him a little 1 litre Polo for his birthday and the question we need to know is if we insure it with him as a learner driver, can me and his dad sit with him with L plates on as we both have the pre-97 licence? If not, it will have to wait until he passes his test but I feel the more experience he gets driving can only be a good thing!

Cheers.

 

[ROG]

Not really a towing question, more a general driving question if I may be so bold ROG!

My son is 17 on Monday and he has his 1st driving lesson Wednesday (eeeeek!)

We have bought him a little 1 litre Polo for his birthday and the question we need to know is if we insure it with him as a learner driver, can me and his dad sit with him with L plates on as we both have the pre-97 licence? If not, it will have to wait until he passes his test but I feel the more experience he gets driving can only be a good thing!

Cheers.

Yes you both can supervise him but I strongly recommend you talk to his driving instructor before you do that so you are all on the same page - its well worth paying his driving instructor for that talk time if needs be

supervising drivers do not have to be insured unless they are going to actually drive the car but its prudent to do so just in case

If the car is insured only in sons name then see if adding parents name to it will bring the cost down

If supervising drivers already have fully comp on their own insurance - not just as a named driver on that insurance - and the policy allows it then they can drive another car on third party only with owners permission

 

[DragonSlayer]

Great, just what I wanted to hear! Yes, the instructor we are using knows we want to let him drive his car with his L plates and he's had the conversation with us about that, I did say I'll wait until he's had a few weeks of lessons before he's taking one of us out!

 

[EmmaB]

Hi ROG I'm looking to tow a pony in a downplated trailer for towing on the b licence but have a question about which is the best car!

I have seen a 2.2l nissan xtrail which weighs 2050kg, and a 2l mondeo estate which weighs 2165kg. I would have thought the xtrail would be better to tow with but the mondeo weighs more so would that be better? Or is engine size more important than weight? Those are the gvw according to auto trader and both are diesel. Thanks!

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG I'm looking to tow a pony in a downplated trailer for towing on the b licence but have a question about which is the best car!

I have seen a 2.2l nissan xtrail which weighs 2050kg, and a 2l mondeo estate which weighs 2165kg. I would have thought the xtrail would be better to tow with but the mondeo weighs more so would that be better? Or is engine size more important than weight? Those are the gvw according to auto trader and both are diesel. Thanks!

I have no idea about the performances of towing vehicles - I only deal with legal licencing and weight issues

What is the trailer?

How heavy is the pony?