Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[ROG]

hi a friend is looking to tow a double trailer (one horse) with a ford focus. Reading up on it this doesnt look safe. Will they be ok with just one horse?

Will need to know exact model of car as there are so many variations

Will need to know what trailer it is

Will need to know if they have B+E licence

Will need to know weight of horse

 

[LadyRascasse]

Hi ROG looking to tow a 400kg horse with a 06 Fiat Scudo 2.0 JDT. I have B+E entitlement (pre 1997 license) What trailer could I legally use A company local to me rents out a ifor 510 but not sure if I would be legal or safe using this? Thank you for your time

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG looking to tow a 400kg horse with a 06 Fiat Scudo 2.0 JDT. I have B+E entitlement (pre 1997 license) What trailer could I legally use A company local to me rents out a ifor 510 but not sure if I would be legal or safe using this? Thank you for your time

According to my internet research the max towing capacity of this van is 1300 kg
To make sure I have the correct figure please find the weight plate on the vehicle which is usually hidden under the bonnet or in a door frame and let me know the top two figures from the 4 listed or look on the V5 keepers form and post what is states as max towing weight if that is listed

Assuming 1300 is correct then with a 400 horse it leaves 900 absolute max for the weight of an empty trailer

The 510 is over 900

I would opt for something like a 401 or 403 which are just under 800 empty

 

[LadyRascasse]

Thank you, the list on the door frame says

2330kg
3630kg
1 - 1230kg
2 - 1300kg

 

[ROG]

Thank you, the list on the door frame says

2330kg
3630kg
1 - 1230kg
2 - 1300kg

3630 minus 2330 = 1300 so the 1300 max towing capacity is correct - thanks for confirming that

1300 is the max actual weight that can be towed behind your vehicle

 

[joolie]

Hi

Just want to check I've got my figures right (on a B license):

1660 unladen weight
2160 GVW
2000 tow capacity
Looking to tow an Ifor 401 assume it will need to be downplated.

Is this legal? Thanks

 

[ROG]

Hi

Just want to check I've got my figures right (on a B license):

1660 unladen weight
2160 GVW
2000 tow capacity
Looking to tow an Ifor 401 assume it will need to be downplated.

Is this legal? Thanks

401 will need to be down plated to 1340 or lower
Contact IW and send them the plate from the trailer as well as £48 - they send you new plate to put on trailer

401 is about 780 empty

What weight do you need to put in the trailer?

 

[joolie]

Thanks ROG!

Oops forgot to say will be to tow one 14.2 pony - weight no more than 500kgs.

 

[ROG]

Thanks ROG!

Oops forgot to say will be to tow one 14.2 pony - weight no more than 500kgs.

If 401 is down plated to say 1300 then that only leaves 520 max for the trailer payload which is cutting it a bit fine so I hope you can get IW to plate it at 1340 for a bit of wiggle room

 

[joolie]

Brill thanks. Pony is 450kg so shouldn't be a problem - just thought best to overestimate everything just in case!

 

[ROG]

Brill thanks. Pony is 450kg so shouldn't be a problem - just thought best to overestimate everything just in case!

Good idea - all seems ok to me

 

[ROG]

Is it legal to tow a trailer with a MGW of 2340kg with a vehicle that has a kerb weight of 1770kg? I will actually only be towing a total of 1400kg (905 unladen weight plus 500kg pony) which I believe is acceptable, but concerned the trailer I can hire is just too big even if it isn't filled.

If this is the case can anyone direct me to an official website that explains this? All I can find is the MVMs, 85% rule etc. and what each license can tow.

The license isn't a problem, driver is pre-97.

Just looked up my vehicle again, kerb weight is 1770kg, gross weight is 2260kg, missed that before, does that now mean I'm ok? Or because the driver is ok up to 8.25t does it not matter anyway if the MGW of the trailer is too high if the vehicle isn't going to tow the maximum anyway?

Basically I read in a couple of places that the trailer would have to either be a lower MGW than the vehicle or be downplated accordingly, is this true and if so can you point me to an official body who can confirm this for definite?

Driver has a B+E due to passing car test before 1997

The laws are these -
The vehicle 2260 GVW must not be exceeded = that is the max actual weight the vehicle can be when fully loaded
The trailer 2340 MAM must not be exceeded = that is the max actual weight the trailer can be when fully loaded
The vehicle will have a max towing capacity = that is the max actual weight which can be towed

You have not listed the max towing capacity so I will make one up ...... 2000

As the lower figure between 2000 and 2340 is 2000 then the max actual weight which the trailer and it load can weigh is 2000

The 85% ADVICE not rule is for CARAVANS ONLY

Kerb weight has nothing to do with it

 

[Busy bear]

Hi hoping you may be able to help,

I looking to buy a bateson trailer either a deauville or a derby but want to tow initially on a b licence. We have one 12hh pony approx 300kg possible tow vechicles would be a 2009 mondeo estate tdi or vw Passat 2 litre diesel 06 model. I understand down plating is an option and in truth would prefer the deauville but am unsure if this as a viable option. Thank you in advance

 

[ROG]

Hi hoping you may be able to help,

I looking to buy a bateson trailer either a deauville or a derby but want to tow initially on a b licence. We have one 12hh pony approx 300kg possible tow vechicles would be a 2009 mondeo estate tdi or vw Passat 2 litre diesel 06 model. I understand down plating is an option and in truth would prefer the deauville but am unsure if this as a viable option. Thank you in advance

What is the GVW listed on those vehicles?
A weight plate will be on each car usually hidden under the bonnet on in a door frame
Alternatively look on the V5 keeper forms and see what it says under max permissible mass

http://www.batesontrailers.com/product/horse-trailers/deauville-horse-trailers/
Empty weight is 860
MAM is 2300 but can be down plated by contacting Bateson who will need the old plate and a tenner - they send you a new plate to put on

ASSUMING the GVW on a car is say 2200 then the trailer would need to be down plated to 1300 making the max for B towing of 3500 (2200+1300=3500)

If it was at 1300 then that leaves 440 for the trailer load/pony (1300-860=440)

 

[ROG]

To add - if you are looking at the weight plate please give me the top two figures

 

[Moobou]

1 - B licence
2 - 1595 = unladen/empty weight
3 - 2190 = fully loaded weight
4 - 2000 = max towing weight
5 – 1300 (down plated from 1700) = max trailer weight when loaded
6 - 675 = trailer weight when empty


I think that's all right for a Bateson Derby/ Rav4 combo - would I be legal on a b license?

 

[ROG]

1 - B licence
2 - 1595 = unladen/empty weight
3 - 2190 = fully loaded weight
4 - 2000 = max towing weight
5 – 1300 (down plated from 1700) = max trailer weight when loaded
6 - 675 = trailer weight when empty


I think that's all right for a Bateson Derby/ Rav4 combo - would I be legal on a b license?

YES = big smiles

2190+1300=3490 (max is 3500 for B towing)

Max load for trailer = 625 (1300-675=625)

Number 2 is no longer necessary as the law changed on needing that info on 19/01/2013

 

[Moobou]

YES = big smiles

2190+1300=3490 (max is 3500 for B towing)

Max load for trailer = 625 (1300-675=625)

Number 2 is no longer necessary as the law changed on needing that info on 19/01/2013

Excellent.....so if I had a B+E licensee sat next to me and L plates would I be able to tow 1700kg?

 

[ROG]

Excellent.....so if I had a B+E licensee sat next to me and L plates would I be able to tow 1700kg?

Yes

You could tow up to 2000 with that vehicle and a trailer plated at 2000 or higher under B+E learner rules

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.

All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.

The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving

 

[Moobou]

Yes

You could tow up to 2000 with that vehicle and a trailer plated at 2000 or higher under B+E learner rules

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.

All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.

The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving

Great ROG thanks for the info....now I just need to find a preloved Derby for sale = hen's teeth

 

[castella]

Hi, I currently tow a bateson derby with a lightweight 15hh in with my jeep cherokee but due to the safety recall Im having to replace it. I spoke to bateson who said the trailer weighs 675kg so I could get it downplated to 1200kg to carry my one lightweight mare. I have been looking at smaller vehicles with a smaller running cost and looked at nissan juke's, quite a few of the models have a braked towing capacity of 1250kg so would I be legal to tow with this ? I have grandad rights so no problem with the licence. Thank you !

 

[ROG]

Hi, I currently tow a bateson derby with a lightweight 15hh in with my jeep cherokee but due to the safety recall Im having to replace it. I spoke to bateson who said the trailer weighs 675kg so I could get it downplated to 1200kg to carry my one lightweight mare. I have been looking at smaller vehicles with a smaller running cost and looked at nissan juke's, quite a few of the models have a braked towing capacity of 1250kg so would I be legal to tow with this ? I have grandad rights so no problem with the licence. Thank you !

No need to down plate at all if you have a pre 1997 car test pass which gives you a free B+E licence

The only reason to down plate is if you need to conform to the B licence towing rules - or are using it commercially and want to keep out of operator and tacho regs

There is no law or rule which states that the plated MAM of a trailer must fit into the towing capacity of the towing vehicle - plenty of internet myths though!

If you have a towing capacity of 1200 and the trailer which weighs 675 empty but is plated at 1700 then the max you can load into the trailer is 525 (675 + 525 = 1200)

 

[castella]

Wonderful thank you, I was worried the car would be too small to tow with but it looks like with a lightweight trailer and my lightweight mare I can still tow safely without having to have such a huge car with high running costs

 

[ROG]

Wonderful thank you, I was worried the car would be too small to tow with but it looks like with a lightweight trailer and my lightweight mare I can still tow safely without having to have such a huge car with high running costs

You are welcome

http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasing/nissan/juke/gross-vehicle-weight/
The max GVW of the Juke is 1880 so if you ever needed it to be towed by a B licence holder (not under B+E provisional learner rules) then the trailer would need down plating to a max of 1620

If the trailer was down plated to say 1600 for a tenner via contact with Bateson then it will not change what can be loaded into it

 

[littlen]

Hi ROG
Would this be a possible combination on a B lisence?

Horse 450kg.
Car kerb weight 1688kg
Gvw of car 2260kg

Single trailer at gross weight 1600kg and unlaiden 770kg.

If not are there any lighter trailers that this combo would work with?

Thanks!!

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG
Would this be a possible combination on a B lisence?

Horse 450kg.
Car kerb weight 1688kg
Gvw of car 2260kg

Single trailer at gross weight 1600kg and unlaiden 770kg.

If not are there any lighter trailers that this combo would work with?

Thanks!!

GVW 2260 leaves a max plated MAM for trailer of 1240 so 1600 is too high

One which will work is the Bateson Derby which is 700 max empty and down plated from 1700 to 1200 leaving just over 500 for the trailer load

To down plate with Bateson is easy - call them and send weight plate with a tenner - they send you a new one to put on it

 

[littlen]

Great thank you ROG!

 

[Liane]

As per my comment on the other thread ROG are you able to advise please? It is for a Kia Sorenta and a IW511

1 - What licence they hold - B or BE (I have B+E)
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle (1,891 min, 1,999 max)
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle (2510kg)
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle (Max Tow Weight(kg) Braked 2,500)
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres IW511 so 3500 I believe?
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer 1000kg

 

[ROG]

As per my comment on the other thread ROG are you able to advise please? It is for a Kia Sorenta and a IW511

1 - What licence they hold - B or BE (I have B+E)
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle (1,891 min, 1,999 max)
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle (2510kg)
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle (Max Tow Weight(kg) Braked 2,500)
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres IW511 so 3500 I believe?
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer 1000kg

HB511 is 2700 MAM and 1000 empty

You have a 2500 towing capacity

Max load for trailer is 1500 (2500 - 1000 = 1500)

 

[Liane]

so I can have horses weighing a combined total of 1500kg. And then this combination is ok? (sorry if I am being thick!)