ROG
Well-Known Member
Trailer laden/unladen weight not to exceed towing capacity of vehicle.= no such law
YES
YES as well as vehicle GVW(MAM)
As the total of the plated weights cannot exceed 3500 then legally the actual total cannot exceed 3500
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YES
YES as well as vehicle GVW(MAM)
As the total of the plated weights cannot exceed 3500 then legally the actual total cannot exceed 3500
Trailer Training
Member
If you are going to give advise make sure its right, the advise by ROG is wrong, the plated weight did not come law until 19th January 2013, 1997 to 2013 it was the actual weight of the combination as if it was put on a weigh bridge, so therefor the car trailer passengers fuel trailer load etc must not exceed 3500kgs in actual weight.
Is this something that you have self learnt or are you qualified to give this advise.
ROG
Well-Known Member
I do not know who this member is folks but PLEASE do not take any advice from them as they are 100% giving wrong legal information.
TT - I have offered you the chance to contact me in post number 2008 so I can discuss this issue but it seems you are determined to stick to your own unique interpretation of the law
I HAVE NOW EMAILED AND TEXT YOU
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Trailer Training
Member
I will repeat my question "Is this something that you have self learnt or are you qualified to give this advise."
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
And what are your qualifications in this field?
ROG
Well-Known Member
My advise is gained from experience and from the DVLA DVSA DfT as well as the traffic police
It is also written in the RTA and has been for over 25 years
Trailer Training
Member
passed my ADI in 1986, qualified HGV, car, motorbike and PCV instructor, Driving examiner in the army until 1999, taken 19 driving test combining civilian and army together, worked for VOSA for 5yrs from 1999 to 2004.
How about you?
How about you?
ROG
Well-Known Member
I think I know where TTs info comes from and that is the Gov sites where either the wprd MAM has been omitted or the caveat which states that all weights refer to MAM weights has not been shown - this is the usual error that those writing the info on such sites fail to check on
I know this because my MP has informed the DfT minister and although promises were made to rectify the online info nothing has happened = typical Govt !!
I know this because my MP has informed the DfT minister and although promises were made to rectify the online info nothing has happened = typical Govt !!
Trailer Training
Member
Please answer my question, self taught or qualified.
ROG
Well-Known Member
VOSA for 5 years which means you know abut weights but not licencing law - that is dealt with by the DVLA not DVSA/VOSA
We have a member on here - geebee45 - who can trump your years and experience with VOSA - he was a regional TE who attended courts as an expert witness = that is the caliber of people who I get info from
Being an ADI etc does not mean you have credentials in knowing the driving licence laws - I have discussed this issue with loads of vehicle instructors and all of them agree with me even if they originally did not
ROG
Well-Known Member
TT - perhaps you could point out in this decent Gov DVLA PDF where it states different rules for drivers with B and B+E licence?
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/208103/ins57p.pdf
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/208103/ins57p.pdf
ROG
Well-Known Member
A qualified person in law would need to be a lawyer versed in transport law and neither of us are such
Trailer Training
Member
You have avoided answering my question, so I will take it that you are unqualified self taught, advising people if they are legal yet people could be driving around the UK and Europe on your advise. So if and when they are stopped and found to be illegally towing, have the car and trailer seized on the road side, prosecuted for no licence, no insurance, no L plates, banned from driving and then have a large fine to pay.
ROG
Well-Known Member
Better that I am giving them the correct legal answer than doing what you are which is giving them an incorrect one to which they can get prosecuted !!
I am assuming from your answers that you think this is legal for a driver with only a B licence ????
Passed car test in year 2000 so B licence only
Vehicle
GVW 2000
Kerb 1500
Towing capacity 2000
GTW 4000
Loaded with 400
Actual weight when loaded 1900
Trailer
MAM 2500
Empty 500
Loaded with 1100
Actual weight when loaded 1600
Total GTW/actual weight 3500
Total plated MAM/GVW weight 4500
YOU ARE SAYING THAT IS LEGAL ?
Trailer Training
Member
How can you advise people if you are not qualified in any format, you might be well respected on here because you have lulled people into believing that you can give them legal advise, they you say your not got any legal qualification, nor have you ever passed any qualification to teach people to drive. perhaps your signature should say not qualified to give advise its just my opinion, that would be factually correct. I have got better things to do than correct you all day, if people want to believe somebody with no qualification in driver training then I hope they take legal action against you for you for giving them bad advise. I have also reported the situation to admin.
ROG
Well-Known Member
I am glad you have reported this to site admin because it is very dangerous for members to take advice from you on this matter
I hope admin deal with you appropriately
Now if you would be so kind as to answer the question for my example .....
ROG
Well-Known Member
TT - regarding driver training ..... how many drivers have you got through the LGV and advanced driver tests?
We can both keep going there so whats the point of going to the 'my dad is bigger than your dad' ? = its childish
We can both keep going there so whats the point of going to the 'my dad is bigger than your dad' ? = its childish
ROG
Well-Known Member
I do often wonder if those that give answers on subjects like this do their 'due diligence' first like I did and not just rely on what is written on the internet even if it is on the .GOV sites
ThoroughbredStar
Well-Known Member
Great, thank you. I pretty much understand now- very helpful.
Page 9 of the link you also shared https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/208103/ins57p.pdf quite clearly states what you have advised on here.
Once again, many thanks for your information, very helpful!
ROG
Well-Known Member
You are welcome and can be assured that any info I give will be legally correct as I have done my due diligence
If I am not certain on an issue I will say so by adding something like - I think - so that the receiver knows it may not be a fact
ThoroughbredStar
Well-Known Member
Sorry to pester you again ROG! But........
With regards to Licensing, the DVLA say B holders can drive "motor vehicles with a MAM not exceeding 3500kg and designed and constructed for the carriage of no more than 8 passengers in addition to the driver with a trailer over 750kg, where the combination MAM is not exceeding 3500kg."
I am now unclear this refers to just the MAM of vehicle and trailer and excludes the GTW plated on the vehicle. Do I ignore the GTW plated on the vehicle when considering Licensing?
Many thanks in advance.
With regards to Licensing, the DVLA say B holders can drive "motor vehicles with a MAM not exceeding 3500kg and designed and constructed for the carriage of no more than 8 passengers in addition to the driver with a trailer over 750kg, where the combination MAM is not exceeding 3500kg."
I am now unclear this refers to just the MAM of vehicle and trailer and excludes the GTW plated on the vehicle. Do I ignore the GTW plated on the vehicle when considering Licensing?
Many thanks in advance.
ThoroughbredStar
Well-Known Member
IGNORE ME! I know the answer! The GTW is the breaked towing capacity of the vehicle (number plated minus the GVW)- doh! Paranoia strikes again!
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ROG
Well-Known Member
All vehicles (design specifications permitting) are allowed to tow a max 750 kgs plated weight braked trailer
An un-braked trailer may also be up to 750 provided it is not more than half the kerb/empty weight of the vehicle
B with GVW at 3500
C1 with GVW at 7500
C with any GVW
D1 with 10+ total seats
D with 18+ total seats
When a trailer goes over that 750 plated weight then other towing licence laws apply
GTW does not come into licencing but instead refers to the max actual (not plated) weight a vehicle and trailer can be when weighed together
I can do examples if you need more clarity
ROG
Well-Known Member
GTW is not the braked towing capacity of the vehicle
GTW minus GVW is not always the towing capacity
One example of that is the transit 280 which has a GVW of 2800, a GTW of 3500 and a towing capacity of 1200
To tow 1200 behind that transit the vehicle cannot be loaded to an actual weight exceeding 2300
ThoroughbredStar
Well-Known Member
That makes sense, thank you.
ROG
Well-Known Member
I came across this B+E trailer reversing game on another site - have fun
http://www.marops.net/portfolio/trailer-reversing-game
http://www.marops.net/portfolio/trailer-reversing-game
SplashofSoy
Well-Known Member
I am confused, please help me. I have the B+E test on my licence taken last year. I need to change my car soon and wanted to get something that i could tow with on short journeys/hardstanding car parks only. If i was going on long journeys i can borrow my dad's shogun but as he lives 40 miles away its not practical to do regularly. The trailer is an older Ifor 510 and horse when weighed on weigh scales was 574kg so its a good guide. How do i know what vehicle i can tow with, was looking at a Volvo estate or something similar. Do i just need to look at braked trailer towing capacity so if the car can tow 1800-2000kg or over i would be fine to tow using that car just my horse?
ROG
Well-Known Member
B+E
Horse x 1 = 575kg?
Trailer empty = 1000kg
Short journeys not needing 4x4
Allowing for a bit more put in the trailer then you need a car capable of towing say 1700
Most will tow much more than 1700 so you will have plenty to choose from
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SplashofSoy
Well-Known Member
Thanks ROG. Was reading round it and so many people say you cant tow with anything but a big 4x4 with 3.5T capacity and this thing about the total weight the trailer can carry etc. Basically it is as simple as you think. How much does the car tow (braked trailer capacity) and as long as its 1700kg or more i am legal and safe.
ROG
Well-Known Member
You got it
Many have a personal preference and often need a 4x4 due to the areas they need to tow on but there is no safety issue with towing a horsebox or any other sort of trailer with a basic car if the driver treats it right