Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[ROG]

Trailer detectices, any ideas?

I am interested in a trailer advertised as a Rice suitable for 2 x 17hh . It looks to be fairly old.

I asked for the plate details and got sent a pic of what doesn't look like the weight plate, but it says "UW 419kg". I am sure there is no way this could be the unladen weight of a trailer that big. Any ideas what this refers to?

. I have asked if there is a plate displaying unladen and gvw/mam.

Thank you

Does seem too low for empty weight

UW has always referred to Unladen Weight

 

[OldNag]

Does seem too low for empty weight

UW has always referred to Unladen Weight

Thanks ROG it seems way under so I can't work out why it says that. It doesn't look like a standard weight plate either. Am waiting to see if I can get more info......

 

[RunRunReindeer]

(Sorry if this has been asked before).
My trailer's plated fully laden weight is 2300kg (Bateson Ascot) BUT I will only be towing up to 2000kg including trailer (925kg unladen) and two medium size horses (max 450kg each).
I'm currently looking for a new towing vehicle; does its max towing capacity have to meet that of my trailer's max PLATED fully laden weight (2300kg) or the ACTUAL laden weight (2000kg)?
Thanks!

 

[ROG]

(Sorry if this has been asked before).
My trailer's plated fully laden weight is 2300kg (Bateson Ascot) BUT I will only be towing up to 2000kg including trailer (925kg unladen) and two medium size horses (max 450kg each).
I'm currently looking for a new towing vehicle; does its max towing capacity have to meet that of my trailer's max PLATED fully laden weight (2300kg) or the ACTUAL laden weight (2000kg)?
Thanks!

There is no law or rule which states that the towing capacity of the vehicle must be able to accommodate the plated MAM of a trailer

You need a vehicle that has a towing capacity capable of towing the actual weight so 925+450+450=1825

B+E licence needed

 

[Procrastination]

Hi ROG,

Hope you don't mind me asking this, it's not horse related but is towing related!

Recently got a tow bar fitted, I only have a B license at present so am aware I will need to pass my test before towing any horses as we have a heavy van. However, we also have a small trailer for taking things to the dump etc, just wondering if I am legal to tow this as I find the guidelines a little confusing!

The gross vehicle weight of our van is 3000kg and the MAM of the trailer is 750kg. So the guidelines say on a B license you can tow a small trailer up to 750kg or a bigger trailer as long as GVW and trailer MAM don't exceed 3500kg. Where does that leave me? As the trailer falls in to the first category being 750kg but once you add that to the weight of the vehicle we are then over the 3500kg limit? It's all a bit unclear!

So far I haven't seen anything that says you can tow a 750kg or less trailer on a B license provided you still don't go over 3500kg...so I think I'm ok to tow it??

Would appreciate your advice!

Thanks

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG,

Hope you don't mind me asking this, it's not horse related but is towing related!

Recently got a tow bar fitted, I only have a B license at present so am aware I will need to pass my test before towing any horses as we have a heavy van. However, we also have a small trailer for taking things to the dump etc, just wondering if I am legal to tow this as I find the guidelines a little confusing!

The gross vehicle weight of our van is 3000kg and the MAM of the trailer is 750kg. So the guidelines say on a B license you can tow a small trailer up to 750kg or a bigger trailer as long as GVW and trailer MAM don't exceed 3500kg. Where does that leave me? As the trailer falls in to the first category being 750kg but once you add that to the weight of the vehicle we are then over the 3500kg limit? It's all a bit unclear!

So far I haven't seen anything that says you can tow a 750kg or less trailer on a B license provided you still don't go over 3500kg...so I think I'm ok to tow it??

Would appreciate your advice!

Thanks

B licence can be used with a GVW of 3500 and a max trailer MAM of 750kg making a total of 4250kg

The 3500 rule kicks in when the trailer is over 750kg plated MAM

 

[Procrastination]

Ahhh I see!

Smashing, thank you

 

[firejenson]

Been cracking my brain up with this towing malarkey and come to the conclusion I might just have to bite the bullet and do my B+E test.. What I was wondering would my Volvo V70 be sufficient to tow a trailer (have been looking the light weight ones or ifor 505 at the most) with maximum load of Welsh A (250kg) and 14.2 SHP (max 400kg) but more than likely most of the time just the Sec A on his own. Short distances, not looking more than 20 miles tops so ideally not wanting to swap the car to petrol guzzling 4x4

 

[ROG]

Been cracking my brain up with this towing malarkey and come to the conclusion I might just have to bite the bullet and do my B+E test.. What I was wondering would my Volvo V70 be sufficient to tow a trailer (have been looking the light weight ones or ifor 505 at the most) with maximum load of Welsh A (250kg) and 14.2 SHP (max 400kg) but more than likely most of the time just the Sec A on his own. Short distances, not looking more than 20 miles tops so ideally not wanting to swap the car to petrol guzzling 4x4

http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasing/volvo/v70/gross-vehicle-weight/ - not sure which yours is in that list but I am going to use a figure of 2300kg as the GVW

You could get a lightweight trailer such as a bateson derby which weighs 675 empty and have it down plated from 1700 to 1200 allowing for a horse of 525kg but thats about it for B towing (2300+1200=3500)

For what you need to tow you deffo need a B+E licence and a towing capacity of at least 1600kg
This is the list of towing capacities for the V70 = http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasing/volvo/v70/towing-weight-limit/



You could driver yourself with a B+E set up under these rules ..........
SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.

All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.

The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving

 

[ROG]

Just a thought .....

Your horses are 650kg total
The Bateson Derby is a mare and foal trailer I believe and it weighs 675 empty = http://www.towinghorsetrailers.co.uk/trailer/1014

If you got something like a Skoda Octavia car - perhaps the 4x4 version - then that has a GVW of 2000 with a towing capacity about 2000

You could then down plate the trailer from its original 1700 to 1500 and have a trailer load weight of 825kg which is plenty for the 650 you need to transport

So ..... it is possible on a B licence .... you just need the right set up of car and trailer

 

[firejenson]

Thanks ROG, just checked the plate on my car and it reads (in the order displayed on the plate)

2100kg
3900kg
1- 1040
2-1120

 

[ROG]

Thanks ROG, just checked the plate on my car and it reads (in the order displayed on the plate)

2100kg
3900kg
1- 1040
2-1120

AH ... we might be onto a winner ... lets see ....

GVW 2100
Towing capacity 1800

Max trailer plated MAM for B towing = 1400 (3500-2100=1400)

With that Bateson Derby trailer I mentioned earlier down plated from 1700 to 1400 it would leave 725kg for the trailer load/horses which is plenty for the total of 650 you stated your two weigh together leaving 75 spare

Many other trailers can also be down plated if the manufacturer is still trading but most others that can carry two are much heavier when empty so leaving less for the load
An HB505 506 510 511 would not work as they are too heavy when empty for example

 

[firejenson]

Ooooooh, it is starting to sound do'able!! Now starting the hunt for light weight trailer, I believe the Cheval Libertes are very light too?

Thank you very very much!

 

[firejenson]

Looking at the figures, I think I might be "safer" going down the light weight route rather than taking the extra B+E test as towing something like 505 which would take me very near the cars towing limit?

 

[ROG]

I am sure I could look this up but I'm feeling lazy.

I signed up for a clinic with Mark Rashid in May, with the view that I have a couple months to work out how to transport horse to said clinic. I have a B license and drive a 2005 Subaru Forester XT with a 2.0L petrol engine. My horse is approximately 500kg. What, if anything, can I tow?

(It still seems fundamentally wrong to my American brain that you can tow a horse with a Forester or anything else smaller than a mahoosive pickup truck, but I guess it is what people do over here. eeep)

http://www.autoevolution.com/cars/subaru-forester-2002.html#aeng_subaru-forester-2002-20-125-hp - if this is your vehicle then it states a GVW of 1880 and I assume a towing capacity of at least 1600

If you have the V5 keepers form handy please look up these two figures ....
Max permissible authorised mass = ????
Max braked towing weight = ????

Assuming my figures are correct then you can tow a trailer with a plated MAM weight of 1600 so that could mean a HB401 or 403 without the need to down plate and load your horse into it with loads to spare

 

[ROG]

Looking at the figures, I think I might be "safer" going down the light weight route rather than taking the extra B+E test as towing something like 505 which would take me very near the cars towing limit?

Ooooooh, it is starting to sound do'able!! Now starting the hunt for light weight trailer, I believe the Cheval Libertes are very light too?

Thank you very very much!

Cheval = http://www.chevaltrailers.co.uk/double-horse.html = too heavy empty

I think you are going to need the Derby - bit pricey second hand and rare because of the very reason you need it
Might be worth looking at new and having it down plated before you buy = idea?

 

[Caol Ila]

ROG, the V5 says braked towable mass of trailer = 1950kg and unbraked is 740kg. Is GVW what the V5 says is [Y] revenue weight? If so, that is 1950kg.

 

[RunRunReindeer]

There is no law or rule which states that the towing capacity of the vehicle must be able to accommodate the plated MAM of a trailer

You need a vehicle that has a towing capacity capable of towing the actual weight so 925+450+450=1825

B+E licence needed

Sorry not to have popped back sooner. Thanks ROG

 

[Springermad]

Hi Rog,
I have a volvo v40 1.9d estate (2003)
I have been trying to work out if I can legally tow a 15.3 cob ( 500kg) with the car and trailer ( IW505)

I am sure that the following figures are correct:

1. B+E
2.1280
3.1400
4.1800
5.2340
6.905

Thank You

 

[ROG]

ROG, the V5 says braked towable mass of trailer = 1950kg and unbraked is 740kg. Is GVW what the V5 says is [Y] revenue weight? If so, that is 1950kg.

Need F1 max permissable mass and Q1 braked (kg)

Alternatively you could look at the weight plate on the vehicle which is usually hidden under the bonnet or in a door frame - need the top two figures of the four listed

 

[ROG]

Hi Rog,
I have a volvo v40 1.9d estate (2003)
I have been trying to work out if I can legally tow a 15.3 cob ( 500kg) with the car and trailer ( IW505)

I am sure that the following figures are correct:

1. B+E
2.1280
3.1400
4.1800
5.2340
6.905

Thank You

You can load 895 into the trailer
1800-905=895

Number 3 at 1400 GVW is deffo not correct but makes no difference to the answer

 

[Springermad]

Thank you very much for your reply. Really appreciate your help.

Not sure where that figure came from either!

 

[AceAmara]

a few years ago the local ifor williams place was telling people, me included that you could get your trailer plate down graded. For example (assuming B+E license in place) you are towing with a vehicle with a 2tonne towing capacity they said you had to get the trailer plate de-rated to 2 tonnes. Several years later interestingly I have purchased a new trailer from them; my vehicle towing cap is 2700kg - trailer i looked at was plated at 3.5. The same chap now says Ifor are no longer changing plates as it isnt required, that with my tow vehicle i can legally tow this trailer (unladen weight around 1100kg) as long as the laden weight doesn’t go above the 2700kg. Does this sound right? thanks!

 

[gingerthing]

Hello ROG! I have a nissan xtrail 2.2 dci sve and will be towing my 2001 model Ifor HB01 on a B license. Can you just confirm for me what weight I need to down plate my trailer to?

 

[ROG]

a few years ago the local ifor williams place was telling people, me included that you could get your trailer plate down graded. For example (assuming B+E license in place) you are towing with a vehicle with a 2tonne towing capacity they said you had to get the trailer plate de-rated to 2 tonnes. Several years later interestingly I have purchased a new trailer from them; my vehicle towing cap is 2700kg - trailer i looked at was plated at 3.5. The same chap now says Ifor are no longer changing plates as it isnt required, that with my tow vehicle i can legally tow this trailer (unladen weight around 1100kg) as long as the laden weight doesn’t go above the 2700kg. Does this sound right? thanks!

There has NEVER been a requirement to down plate a trailer to fit in with the vehicle towing capacity

Plenty of internet myths on this though ...............

 

[ROG]

Hello ROG! I have a nissan xtrail 2.2 dci sve and will be towing my 2001 model Ifor HB01 on a B license. Can you just confirm for me what weight I need to down plate my trailer to?

I think the GVW for that model is 2170 kg but I need you to confirm it so please either locate the weight plate usually hidden under the bonnet or in a door frame and give me the top figure of the four OR look on the V5 keepers doc and tell me what it states under max permissible gross weight

Assuming it is 2170 - lets say 2200 to make it easy - then the max trailer plated MAM for B towing is 1300 kg

What trailer do you have?

 

[AceAmara]

There has NEVER been a requirement to down plate a trailer to fit in with the vehicle towing capacity

Plenty of internet myths on this though ...............

thank you !

 

[gingerthing]

Hi ROG it's a Ifor Williams HB401, 2001 model. Haven't got my car docs on me until later but according to the Parker's website the max towing capacity is 2000kgs if that helps?

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG it's a Ifor Williams HB401, 2001 model. Haven't got my car docs on me until later but according to the Parker's website the max towing capacity is 2000kgs if that helps?

Towing capacity no help - need GVW

If my figure guess is correct then conact IFOR Williams to have it down plated from 1600 to 1300 - cost will be about £50 - you send them money and the plate off your trailer - they send you new plate so you can fix it on ...... may need a person with a drill and a pop rivet gun to help you

At 1300 with an empty weight of about 780 you will be able to load 520 into the trailer - what weight is your horse ?

 

[gingerthing]

Can make out gvw at 1515kgs, it's the sve model not the se, horse I'd say weighs around the 500kg mark