Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[jeniwren]

32 now means he was born in 1982 so was age 17 in 1997 so could not have a pre 97 licence - if my math is ok
Assuming that driver only has a B licence ....

Vehicle GVW about 2500 with trailer MAM about 2300 = 4800 so well over the 3500 B licence limit

Thank you, Rog. Have to take the test then.

 

[Tempi]

Hi ROG

I have a question re towing - I know you used to be able to have someone sat with you whilst you towed if you didn't have your B+E as long as they could legally drive a trailer.

I have heard the rule is now changed and person sat with you must have had their B+E for 3 or more years (instead of just someone who passed their test before '97).

Would you be able to clarify for me please? Going to be taking my test in next month or so and want to practice as well as obviously lessons but I don't have anyone with B+E to sit with me only someone who passed before 97.

Thanks

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG

I have a question re towing - I know you used to be able to have someone sat with you whilst you towed if you didn't have your B+E as long as they could legally drive a trailer.

I have heard the rule is now changed and person sat with you must have had their B+E for 3 or more years (instead of just someone who passed their test before '97).

Would you be able to clarify for me please? Going to be taking my test in next month or so and want to practice as well as obviously lessons but I don't have anyone with B+E to sit with me only someone who passed before 97.

Thanks

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.

All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner

 

[Tempi]

Thank you

 

[ROG]

Thank you

you may find this useful.....



The B+E test
No medical or theory test required
Read a number plate from a certain distance
VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions - usually 5
The next three can be in any order:-
VIDEO - Reversing Exercise VIDEO - Reversing Exercise - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
DSA REVERSING TEST AREA DIAGRAM DSA REVERSING TEST AREA DIAGRAM
VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test

The trailer must now be loaded with 600 kgs of sand bags or a 1000 kgs water IBC for the test so most companies are now training with that weight in the trailer
https://www.gov.uk/new-laden-testing-rules-for-driving-test-vehicles

Well explained here Well explained here

DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos

This is interesting BUT NOT RECOMMENDED – a B licence towing set up can be presented for the B+E test but L plates must be used for the test. So you can train yourself, go to test by yourself, fit L plates, do the test, then, pass or fail, remove L plates and drive away by yourself.
DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS
Remember that the required 600 kgs of sand bags or 1 x 1000 IBC filled with water will be required in the trailer and the load must be secure.

 

[spider]

Hi Rog
I have the opportunity to acquire cheaply a Rover 75 with a 2 litre engine and a towing hook! Would this legally pull a trailer with a 14.3hh Welsh Cob? His weight is around 430kgs.
Thank you.

 

[ROG]

Hi Rog
I have the opportunity to acquire cheaply a Rover 75 with a 2 litre engine and a towing hook! Would this legally pull a trailer with a 14.3hh Welsh Cob? His weight is around 430kgs.
Thank you.

An internet search reveals a towing capacity of 1600 kg so you should be ok with almost any trailer using a B+E licence
If you only have a B licence please let me know


To be certain for your model please locate the weight plate which is usually hidden under the bonnet or in a door frame then let me know the top 2 of the 4 figures on that plate

 

[littlen]

Hi,

Would towing with a diesel ford kuga 2.0 4x4 or VW tiguan 2.0 diesel ever be possible on a b licence?
If so with which trailer?
( I don't want to do towing test!)

Are there any alternatives of largish cars I could use to tow one horse on a B? Current is an audi a3 1.6tdi sportback which I have asked about before but I have been told this is dangerous due to risk of car tipping over?

 

[ROG]

Hi,

Would towing with a diesel ford kuga 2.0 4x4 or VW tiguan 2.0 diesel ever be possible on a b licence?
If so with which trailer?
( I don't want to do towing test!)

Are there any alternatives of largish cars I could use to tow one horse on a B? Current is an audi a3 1.6tdi sportback which I have asked about before but I have been told this is dangerous due to risk of car tipping over?

Car tipping over !!!! - what nonsense - if there was that possibility under normal conditions then restrictions on the type of trailer would be imposed by the maker of the vehicle

The simplest way to do things is to put the vehicle model into an internet search and add - kg gvw

Once you have the GVW you deduct that from 3500 and see what plated weight is left for the trailer

A Bateson Derby trailer for example has an empty weight of 675 kg and with a horse of 500 kg you would need the plate on the trailer to be at least 1200 kg to allow for a little leeway
That Derby trailer is originally plated at 1700 but can be down plated by Bateson

If the Kuga has for example a GVW of 2300 then that leaves 1200 for a max trailer plate and if you had a trailer such as a HB505 with an empty weight about 900 then down plating that to 1200 would only leave 300 for the horse = not going work out unless the horse is going on a diet!



This is just one idea for a B licence towing set up

Skoda Octavia 4x4 1.6 diesel
GVW 1998 kg
Towing capacity 2000 kg

Bateson Derby trailer
Empty 675 kg
MAM 1700 but down plated to 1500*

* Contact Bateson on 0161 4260 500 and send them the 1700 plate off the trailer with £10
On receipt they will make up the new 1500 plate and send it to you to fix onto the trailer

The trailer can be loaded with 825 kg

The vehicle makes for a reasonably economical commuting car

These links may help
http://carleasingmadesimple.com/bus...octavia-diesel-estate_3/60610/technical-data/
http://www.towinghorsetrailers.co.uk/trailer/1014
http://www.batesontrailers.com/contact-us/

 

[littlen]

Thanks very much for your help ROG I am clueless.

So I think the Tiguan has a kerb weight of 1600, so towing on a B license with this type of vehicle would be pretty much impossible?

I would be looking to pull something along the lines of an ifor williams hb401.

I am quite fussy as I don't want an estate if possible but an SUV type, however I don't think I could pass the test without spending a fortune on lessons.

I think my audi may be underpowered at only 1.6litre engine but I am happy to be proved wrong!

Thanks again!

 

[ROG]

Thanks very much for your help ROG I am clueless.

So I think the Tiguan has a kerb weight of 1600, so towing on a B license with this type of vehicle would be pretty much impossible?

I would be looking to pull something along the lines of an ifor williams hb401.

I am quite fussy as I don't want an estate if possible but an SUV type, however I don't think I could pass the test without spending a fortune on lessons.

I think my audi may be underpowered at only 1.6litre engine but I am happy to be proved wrong!

Thanks again!

Kerb weight has nothing to do with it at all

You need the GVW of the vehicle = the max it can legally be when fully loaded
Same goes for the trailer - the plated MAM = the max it can legally be when fully loaded
Add those two together and if over 3500 then its a no for a B licence

Do you need to tow on steep hills or softish ground?

 

[littlen]

Hi ROG, mainly roads but there is the odd hill required as the yard is at the top of a gravel track!

I would be towing the one pony (500kg) plus tack.

Off to find the GVW now, thanks!

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG, mainly roads but there is the odd hill required as the yard is at the top of a gravel track!

I would be towing the one pony (500kg) plus tack.

Off to find the GVW now, thanks!

Tack could always go in the vehicle

http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasing/volkswagen/tiguan/gross-vehicle-weight/

 

[littlen]

Thanks ROG for all of your help!

The gross weight is 2.2k which would leave me 1.3k for trailer, pony and people. May be a push?

 

[ROG]

Thanks ROG for all of your help!

The gross weight is 2.2k which would leave me 1.3k for trailer, pony and people. May be a push?

Not unless you intend to put people and tack in the trailer!!!

Trailer MAM (1300) = max trailer can weigh with its load
Vehicle GVW (2200) = max vehicle can weigh with its load

500 horse with a trailer weighing about 700 empty = 1200 so plated at 1300 leaves 100 spare load capacity in the trailer


I have mentioned Bateson but also check out the top few trailers from this manufacturer - http://www.horsetrailersales.co.uk/cheval_liberte_index.asp

 

[Bramble74]

Hi Rog,

I've just seen FoolsMotto's thread in Clubhouse about new car and it triggered a thought.

I'm looking at getting an Audi A4 or A6 Avant (estate), 1.9 TDi, I would be looking at on with either 130 BHP or 150 BHP, nothing smaller. According to the log book and details they can tow up to 1600KG or 1700KG, depending on the BHP.

The tow bar on one I looked at had a max nose weight of 75KG.

So, my questions are - Am I ok towing my Ifor 505 (I think the weight is 995KG), plus one horse around 430KG, I have a B+E Licence so it's more what the car can cope with, I know that is getting very close to the maximum the vehicle can cope with.

Would the car be able to cope with the weight of the trailer given that the tow bar nose weight is 75KG?

Thanks for any insight.

 

[ROG]

Hi Rog,

I've just seen FoolsMotto's thread in Clubhouse about new car and it triggered a thought.

I'm looking at getting an Audi A4 or A6 Avant (estate), 1.9 TDi, I would be looking at on with either 130 BHP or 150 BHP, nothing smaller. According to the log book and details they can tow up to 1600KG or 1700KG, depending on the BHP.

The tow bar on one I looked at had a max nose weight of 75KG.

So, my questions are - Am I ok towing my Ifor 505 (I think the weight is 995KG), plus one horse around 430KG, I have a B+E Licence so it's more what the car can cope with, I know that is getting very close to the maximum the vehicle can cope with.

Would the car be able to cope with the weight of the trailer given that the tow bar nose weight is 75KG?

Thanks for any insight.

It should cope easily - it has been designed to on normal road type surfaces and gradients

Nose weights can vary depending how the load is placed in the trailer - I think there is a bit of kit that can show the nose weight transfer

 

[Bramble74]

It should cope easily - it has been designed to on normal road type surfaces and gradients

Nose weights can vary depending how the load is placed in the trailer - I think there is a bit of kit that can show the nose weight transfer

Brilliant, Thanks Rog! I'll check out the nose transfer weights.

 

[Laura2408]

Hi ROG,
Can you clarify if this is possible of not please before I car shop.

1 - B license only

2 - Ifor williams 401/403
770kg

3 - GVW of the towing vehicle
2250kg- vw tiguan

4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle
Approx 2000kg

5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres
Unsure of this one??

6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer
770kg???


Plan to tow one horse approx 500kg along with tack in car.

Thanks a lot!!

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG,
Can you clarify if this is possible of not please before I car shop.

B license only

Ifor williams 401/403 770kg

GVW of the towing vehicle 2250kg- vw tiguan

towing capacity of the towing vehicle Approx 2000kg

Plan to tow one horse approx 500kg along with tack in car.

3500 minus 2250 = 1250

1250 is the max plated MAM for a trailer

with trailer at 770 empty and plated for 1250 max MAM = max trailer load of 480 so not going to work with that vehicle and trailer combo for a 500 horse


You need a trailer with that vehicle such as a Bateson Derby which is 675 empty and plated at 1250 leaving a trailer max load of 575 or you need a vehicle with a lower GVW

 

[Laura2408]

Thanks a lot ROG really appreciate the help.

Would it be possible to downplate the ifor to make it legal?

Thanks again.

 

[ROG]

Thanks a lot ROG really appreciate the help.

Would it be possible to downplate the ifor to make it legal?

Thanks again.

My example gave it a down plate from 1600 to 1250

 

[ROG]

With a GVW of 2250 then that leaves a max plate for the trailer of 1250 ..... 2250 + 1250 = 3500 = the max for B towing

the empty weight of the trailer cannot change unless things are removed from it like the roof !!

Having a max plated trailer MAM which is fixed at 1250 with that vehicle then the max load for the trailer will be its plated MAM minus the empty weight ..... 1250 - 770 = 480 in this case
The lower the empty trailer weight with the same trailer MAM means more trailer load capacity so using a trailer with an empty weight of 675 would be 1250 minus 675 = 575 in this case

 

[Laura2408]

Thanks for the info! I have emailed bateson to see what they have suitable.

I'm also looking into other vehicles but the majority of small 4x4s seem to be 2000kg at least and my yard is up a steep muddy track so it must be 4x4!

 

[ROG]

Thanks for the info! I have emailed bateson to see what they have suitable.

I'm also looking into other vehicles but the majority of small 4x4s seem to be 2000kg at least and my yard is up a steep muddy track so it must be 4x4!

Try cheval liberte trailers as well - some are only 625 empty and can be down plated by cheval

 

[XxCoriexX]

Hi All I am looking for some advice to see if I would be legal to tow a trailer

I am seriously confused with all the different weights and some people telling me it legal, others saying it is legal if I downplate my trailer and some saying its illegal!

This is all the information that I could find!

I have a B+E license
I drive a Tiguan Escape (off road version) with towing capability of 2500kg.
the trailer unladen is 1100kg
the trailer maximum is 2700kg
and I also say these figures on the side of the car but have no idea what they are

2240kg
4740kg
1- 1160kg
2- 1130kg

I know this has not been very helpful so any help would be appreciated!

I should also add that I only tow my horse who weighs about 550kg.

 

[ROG]

Hi All I am looking for some advice to see if I would be legal to tow a trailer

I am seriously confused with all the different weights and some people telling me it legal, others saying it is legal if I downplate my trailer and some saying its illegal!

This is all the information that I could find!

I have a B+E license
I drive a Tiguan Escape (off road version) with towing capability of 2500kg.
the trailer unladen is 1100kg
the trailer maximum is 2700kg
and I also say these figures on the side of the car but have no idea what they are

2240kg
4740kg
1- 1160kg
2- 1130kg

I know this has not been very helpful so any help would be appreciated!

I should also add that I only tow my horse who weighs about 550kg.

2500-1100=1400
1400 is what you can load into the trailer

There is no law or rule which states that the manufacturers listed towing capacity of 2500 must be able to handle the trailer plated MAM of 2700 but there are plenty of internet myths that say differently

If anyone says different to me then ask them to prove it by directing you to something written that says so .... not going to happen

 

[XxCoriexX]

2500-1100=1400
1400 is what you can load into the trailer

There is no law or rule which states that the manufacturers listed towing capacity of 2500 must be able to handle the trailer plated MAM of 2700 but there are plenty of internet myths that say differently

If anyone says different to me then ask them to prove it by directing you to something written that says so .... not going to happen

Thank Rog!! I though this this would be the case as I read through the legislation! all they mentioned was the train weight of the vehicle?! there are so many myths that I thought it best just to ask someone who knew! the one guy that keeps saying it is illegal just wouldn't stop so I asked him to find the piece of legislation that shows that and no response so far

 

[ROG]

Thank Rog!! I though this this would be the case as I read through the legislation! all they mentioned was the train weight of the vehicle?! there are so many myths that I thought it best just to ask someone who knew! the one guy that keeps saying it is illegal just wouldn't stop so I asked him to find the piece of legislation that shows that and no response so far

If that guy is on an internet site then can you tell me which one please

GTW and towing capacity refer to actual weights and not the total(s) of plated weights

GVW and MAM refer to plated weights

 

[XxCoriexX]

Hi Rog it was actually on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/groups/270096023025983/714668571902057/?notif_t=group_activity - that is the link to the page. the discussion was started by a lady called Irina. If you feel like giving me some backup on the post it would be much appreciated, all the other posters seem to agree with him even when I stated that VOSA had said it would be ok! he thinks that he is right and VOSA is wrong!