Welfare in Sport - musings..

[Jellymoon]

There’s a lot in the horsey press at the moment about welfare in horse sport, and when I read some of the comments from professional riders, it’s makes me think there is still so far to go. One spoke about how the public needs to see how much we love the horses - they get the best of everything, physio treatment, new shoes every 4 weeks…which is all great but do they ever go out in the fields and interact naturally with their own kind? That’s what I want to know.
Was disappointed to read about Ben Mayer’s horse never, ever getting turned out but gets grazed in hand for 2 hrs a day. I find that really sad.
I am aware how much money is at stake, but it’s not an excuse, I don’t think. Maybe I am a very amateurish infatuated numpty and I don’t know anything about keeping top level competition horses, but I think it’s time for us infatuated numpties to stand up for the rights of horses!
Not sure where I was going with this or what I can actually do about it, but just needed a vent!

 

[Zuzan]

Until the horse world becomes educated in the ecology of equines .. their habitats and behaviour, I think equestrian sport will find it difficult to really understand the implications of welfare. I suspect the first thing "traditional" equestrians will say is that the horse is better looked after and hasn't any predators in the domestic setting .. completely missing the point in my view. I think this will be the first reaction of many whether competitive or not.

 

[LEC]

I think Peder Frederickson is leading the way on this. In dressage Charlotte and Carl are advocates.
As our understanding gets better so will the way we do things. I think eventers are pretty good on the whole as not a 52 week calendar.

 

[Parrotperson]

Carl Hetser turns his out every day. In fact I believe En Vogue lives out 24/7 for his mental health.

 

[Jellymoon]

Until the horse world becomes educated in the ecology of equines .. their habitats and behaviour, I think equestrian sport will find it difficult to really understand the implications of welfare. I suspect the first thing "traditional" equestrians will say is that the horse is better looked after and hasn't any predators in the domestic setting .. completely missing the point in my view. I think this will be the first reaction of many whether competitive or not.

I think part of the problem is the anthropomorphising of horses, and everyone does it, from beginner to advanced. But also in the elite world, the fear of injury, and pressure from above. Anyone who read Carl Hester’s bio will remember how he had to battle to be allowed to turn out his horse at a team competition.

 

[Jellymoon]

I think Peder Frederickson is leading the way on this. In dressage Charlotte and Carl are advocates.
As our understanding gets better so will the way we do things. I think eventers are pretty good on the whole as not a 52 week calendar.

Let’s hope it starts filtering down. But we have a very long way to go.

 

[Zuzan]

Roly Owers did talk about general public perceptions of horse sport and welfare here .. worth listening to

And this is the text of the presentation

https://www.qld.equestrian.org.au/sites/default/files/FEI Willinga Park - Feb 20_0.pdf

and google search for the 5 Domains model of animal welfare

https://scholar.google.co.uk/schola...l+welfare&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart

 

[teddy_]

So far to go... I am well acquainted with a 'top' dressage facility that never turn anything out even though they have ample acreage.

It is sad.

 

[SO1]

The professional often don't own the horses so it may not be the fault of the professionals that competition horses are kept this way.

It is probably the owner that dictate this to prevent their 100k investment from getting injured. I can't see that changing with the value of these top horses. Even if you have mega bucks to spend finding another horse at that level may not be that easy.

Hopefully all these horses will get to retire at grass.

 

[Jellymoon]

Roly Owers did talk about general public perceptions of horse sport and welfare here .. worth listening to

And this is the text of the presentation

https://www.qld.equestrian.org.au/sites/default/files/FEI Willinga Park - Feb 20_0.pdf

and google search for the 5 Domains model of animal welfare

https://scholar.google.co.uk/schola...l+welfare&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart

I enjoyed listening to that, thank you.

 

[stangs]

Oh don’t get me started. Seeing people - not just professionals - say that their horses are so spoiled because they have new shoes on regularly/lots of shavings in their stable/fifty saddle pads(! not kidding, I’ve actually heard that before) makes me lose my mind.

Horses ought to be out more than they’re stabled and they ought to be out with other horses. Grazing in hand is not going to allow a horse to perform natural behaviours with other horses. Nor is riding. And the fact that owners/riders justify this by saying “oh but I can’t risk him getting injured” disgusts me. This is the bare minimum for a healthy and *happy* (or do most pros forget that it’s not enough to be physically well) horse.

I genuinely think it’s a curse for a horse to be born talented.

 

[stangs]

In my ideal world, people would not be qualified to be responsible for a horse’s career without having studied equine ethology beforehand.

 

[SO1]

I doubt it is lack of knowledge that is the problem.

It is cost benefit analysis. The benefits to the owner in these cases is perceived by them to outweigh the costs to horse of that sort of lifestyle.

In my ideal world, people would not be qualified to be responsible for a horse’s career without having studied equine ethology beforehand.

 

[milliepops]

very easy to point the finger at pros. i would hazard that horses owned by amateurs suffer in many other ways in equal or higher numbers tbh

 

[teapot]

Yup, I'd take less issue with the pros too!

 

[Cortez]

It's not just horses, whether top flight competitors or leisure horses. What about domestic animal welfare in general? If you think a horse being kept in a stable is bad how are you going to feel about the way chickens, pigs and dairy cattle are treated? Horses are not badly treated on the whole as long as they have educated owners.

 

[Zuzan]

very easy to point the finger at pros. i would hazard that horses owned by amateurs suffer in many other ways in equal or higher numbers tbh

Completely agree .. however, the Pros are often the role models that people follow... they have additional responsibility in this respect.

I'm not happy about the whole concept of role models generally, whether equestrian or any other field, as simply following someone who has "made it" isn't necessarily healthy. I think it's part and parcel of the celebrity culture we seem to have adopted, and social media is obviously involved.

I would happily see the demise of said celebrity culture and everyone able to make choices on the basis of their own judgment / knowledge / experience.

I wonder, and this is a little off topic, whether the celebrity culture is simply a replacement for a healthier concern about social responsibility / awareness. Lack of this awareness I think feeds back to the lack of awareness of what actually constitutes welfare in other species beyond our own..

How can we expect people to understand welfare of other species when we seem to lack awareness / understanding of our own?

 

[Jellymoon]

It's not just horses, whether top flight competitors or leisure horses. What about domestic animal welfare in general? If you think a horse being kept in a stable is bad how are you going to feel about the way chickens, pigs and dairy cattle are treated? Horses are not badly treated on the whole as long as they have educated owners.

Do you mean that I shouldn’t feel concerned about horses being kept stabled 24/7 because farm animals are badly treated also?

And I think there are many many horse owners, professional and amateur, who believe themselves to be educated, who think it’s ok to keep their horses stabled for long periods of time. In my opinion this is not ok and it’s a massive welfare issue.

 

[Jellymoon]

Completely agree .. however, the Pros are often the role models that people follow... they have additional responsibility in this respect.

I'm not happy about the whole concept of role models generally, whether equestrian or any other field, as simply following someone who has "made it" isn't necessarily healthy. I think it's part and parcel of the celebrity culture we seem to have adopted, and social media is obviously involved.

I would happily see the demise of said celebrity culture and everyone able to make choices on the basis of their own judgment / knowledge / experience.

I wonder, and this is a little off topic, whether the celebrity culture is simply a replacement for a healthier concern about social responsibility / awareness. Lack of this awareness I think feeds back to the lack of awareness of what actually constitutes welfare in other species beyond our own..

How can we expect people to understand welfare of other species when we seem to lack awareness / understanding of our own?

That’s a really interesting question. I wonder if the growth of celebrity culture and social media has made people more concerned with their image than the welfare of people or animals? So getting a horse and dressing it and yourself up in the latest gear and showing it all off on insta is the more important than anything.

 

[Cortez]

Do you mean that I shouldn’t feel concerned about horses being kept stabled 24/7 because farm animals are badly treated also?

And I think there are many many horse owners, professional and amateur, who believe themselves to be educated, who think it’s ok to keep their horses stabled for long periods of time. In my opinion this is not ok and it’s a massive welfare issue.

No I do not. It is perfectly possible to be concerned about more than one thing at a time. My primary concern is not so much about horses being kept in off sodden fields of muck, it is that horses, even those out in (often tiny) paddocks are routinely over-fed and massively under-exercised by their doting but uneducated owners.

 

[Jellymoon]

Oh don’t get me started. Seeing people - not just professionals - say that their horses are so spoiled because they have new shoes on regularly/lots of shavings in their stable/fifty saddle pads(! not kidding, I’ve actually heard that before) makes me lose my mind.

Horses ought to be out more than they’re stabled and they ought to be out with other horses. Grazing in hand is not going to allow a horse to perform natural behaviours with other horses. Nor is riding. And the fact that owners/riders justify this by saying “oh but I can’t risk him getting injured” disgusts me. This is the bare minimum for a healthy and *happy* (or do most pros forget that it’s not enough to be physically well) horse.

I genuinely think it’s a curse for a horse to be born talented.

I agree.

 

[Zuzan]

That’s a really interesting question. I wonder if the growth of celebrity culture and social media has made people more concerned with their image than the welfare of people or animals? So getting a horse and dressing it and yourself up in the latest gear and showing it all off on insta is the more important than anything.

Celebrity culture isn't just about the look though is it..? as you pointed out in your first post Ben Mayer doesn't turnout his horse .. that sets an example to anyone who sees him as a role model.

 

[milliepops]

while i think it's a Good Thing if a professional sports person (rider in this instance) is also a good role model, i don't think it's part of the job spec strictly speaking.

 

[Jellymoon]

No I do not. It is perfectly possible to be concerned about more than one thing at a time. My primary concern is not so much about horses being kept in off sodden fields of muck, it is that horses, even those out in (often tiny) paddocks are routinely over-fed and massively under-exercised by their doting but uneducated owners.

Totally agree with that too! Dare I say, without being shot to pieces, that you shouldn’t own a horse unless you can meet its needs in terms of exercise and adequate turnout? And I don’t mean a lunge 3 x a week and a few hours out in a muddy field.
I was thinking more about sports horses though, where money is no object, and the horses often weave over their stable doors looking out over pristine green fields that they are hardly ever allowed out in. I know several yards such as these.

 

[Cortez]

while i think it's a Good Thing if a professional sports person (rider in this instance) is also a good role model, i don't think it's part of the job spec strictly speaking.

Precisely. If a person decides to look up to someone, it is not then that someone's job to be perfect because of how it might look.

 

[Jellymoon]

Celebrity culture isn't just about the look though is it..? as you pointed out in your first post Ben Mayer doesn't turnout his horse .. that sets an example to anyone who sees him as a role model.

True.

 

[Cortez]

Totally agree with that too! Dare I say, without being shot to pieces, that you shouldn’t own a horse unless you can meet its needs in terms of exercise and adequate turnout? And I don’t mean a lunge 3 x a week and a few hours out in a muddy field.
I was thinking more about sports horses though, where money is no object, and the horses often weave over their stable doors looking out over pristine green fields that they are hardly ever allowed out in. I know several yards such as these.

I agree with the first part of your response, which, if it was adhered too would then eliminate the second part. I have worked on, and indeed run, professional yards for most of my life and can honestly tell you that horses weaving over their doors has never occurred on any yard of mine.

 

[Jellymoon]

Precisely. If a person decides to look up to someone, it is not then that someone's job to be perfect because of how it might look.

I think there’s a bit of responsibility there though, don’t you? Not to be perfect, but if you know kids are following your every word, and copying you, you wouldn’t ride without a hat, for example?

 

[milliepops]

rather than look up to people on insta etc, folk ought to be taking inspiration from or be set an example by the professionals who are around specifically to teach or improve us as riders and horse people. Not randoms who just make their living from riding. Small problem there, in that they need to be of a good standard in the first place which is not always the case

 

[Cortez]

I think there’s a bit of responsibility there though, don’t you? Not to be perfect, but if you know kids are following your every word, and copying you, you wouldn’t ride without a hat, for example?

No, I do not conduct my life for the benefit of random people and what they may think. I also do not ride with a hat and never have, except when required by competition or venue rules.