Jellymoon
Well-Known Member
That’s nice to hear. Sadly, I have seen many horses weaving/ cribbing/box walking on professional yards.
Welfare in Sport - musings..
- Thread starter Jellymoon
- Start date
Jellymoon
Well-Known Member
Oh sorry, didn’t realise that, and it wasn’t aimed at you in any way! Poor choice of example!
But I do think that if I were a known rider, I would try to use that privilege in a good way to better the welfare of horses. I think Carl Hester has done that, and others too.
stangs
Well-Known Member
The case of Danielle Goldstein comes to mind. Didn't the whole horses-not-having-turnout situation come to light with her after she advised a commenter/follower to do the same? (Allegedly - I can't remember the details).
So, sure, being a role model may not have been in her job description, but by interacting with fans online, you become an influencer --> you have some responsibility about what you promote
So, sure, being a role model may not have been in her job description, but by interacting with fans online, you become an influencer --> you have some responsibility about what you promote
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
it's all relative though. i don't see many amateurs being influenced by a pro to keep their horse in 24/7 - from reading FB and HHO it seems most people prefer to have less mucking out tbh.
There are a lot of people bunging supplements into their horses instead of getting a vet though. or bumping around out of balance instead of learning to ride better first etc. I don't think the Pros are role-modelling that... it's a bit selective to just pick up on the TO thing i think.
There are a lot of people bunging supplements into their horses instead of getting a vet though. or bumping around out of balance instead of learning to ride better first etc. I don't think the Pros are role-modelling that... it's a bit selective to just pick up on the TO thing i think.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
Completely agree with you. And I'm pretty sure if you asked any successful competitor if you should keep your leisure horse in 24/7 they would tell you not to.
Flicker
Well-Known Member
I’m wondering what people‘s thoughts are on police horses and the Queen’s troop, who as I understand it don’t get turnout either? Or do they?
littleshetland
Well-Known Member
Wish this was true for every type of animal in our care.
littleshetland
Well-Known Member
I think they get a few weeks 'down time' out in the field at some point in the year.
teapot
Well-Known Member
Both the Met and City police regularly turnout at Bushy Park; other mounted branches definitely do too, and their social media is very good at showing this. In fact from what I've seen on twitter, police horses are some of the best looked after! As for the Cavalry and King's Troop - they have long breaks off duty away from home in huge herds but no regular turnout while 'on the job'. Probably hacked out more than your average amateur horse though...
On that vein, what about riding school horses that don't get much turnout?
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Widgeon
Well-Known Member
I think both police and Queen's troop horses get holidays every year where they're turned out in a group to cover themselves in mud and behave like horses. But they are working horses, so (I think) it's a slightly different question / bag of worms to open.
littleshetland
Well-Known Member
Cortez, top post! (insert big smiley face here and many 'likes'...)
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tristar
Well-Known Member
perhaps the problem is with competitors, that if they don`t do it right they bring their own sport into disrepute, via animal welfare issues and dubious training, riding as they are in the public eye
Zuzan
Well-Known Member
I think the problems is those who choose to be in the spotlight be it the arena or social media don't necessarily realise the responsibility .. it isn't something that they take on consciously .. However social media "influencers" are what the label says .. "influencers" or in other words they seek to influence but without the responsibility.. a true pro is aware of the influence they may have. But I guess where I'm at is we all have a responsibility .. even if just out hacking.. I would hate to leave a bad impression of equestrianism to the walkers / cyclists / motorists we meat. Which is what I was getting at in earlier post.. until we re-establish our collective responsibility there is no point going after Pros or Influencers.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
Having been a professional rider I can assure you that the only thing on my mind was training, presenting and riding the horse well enough to win competitions. In order to do that you have to look after the horse as well as possible, physically and mentally. I couldn't give a stuff what other people thought.
windswoo
Well-Known Member
I always remembered when someone said to me "don't call your stable a stable, but call it a cage?" Do you then think that the cage you keep your horse in is suitable for them especially if kept in 24/7 with hardly any turn out?
I've got 3 12 by 12 stables, which when I first started in horses was considered a decent size for most horses. However there is no way I'd keep my 17hh horse in that or the other two that are around the 16hh mark. My horses are kept out 24/7 but as we own the land we can do with it what we want. I think most people don't have that luxury depending on where they keep their horses, but if I didn't have access to all year round grazing I wouldn't stay on a livery yard for long. I think competition horses are different from "normal" horses, they are working horses in the same way as the police or calvary horses, with very structured lives and from the point of view of the career have the best of everything. They are usually bought up into this at an early age and know no different, so probably don't know that they should be roaming around for miles from day to day and in most cases their career isn't that long - so the chance of having a decent retirement is (hopefully) doable. Again Carl shows this side of his horse management amazingly by making sure his oldies have a good retirement (how has he not had a knighthood yet??) Am I right in saying the Lipizzaner's at the Spanish riding school never have any turnout either?
I've got 3 12 by 12 stables, which when I first started in horses was considered a decent size for most horses. However there is no way I'd keep my 17hh horse in that or the other two that are around the 16hh mark. My horses are kept out 24/7 but as we own the land we can do with it what we want. I think most people don't have that luxury depending on where they keep their horses, but if I didn't have access to all year round grazing I wouldn't stay on a livery yard for long. I think competition horses are different from "normal" horses, they are working horses in the same way as the police or calvary horses, with very structured lives and from the point of view of the career have the best of everything. They are usually bought up into this at an early age and know no different, so probably don't know that they should be roaming around for miles from day to day and in most cases their career isn't that long - so the chance of having a decent retirement is (hopefully) doable. Again Carl shows this side of his horse management amazingly by making sure his oldies have a good retirement (how has he not had a knighthood yet??) Am I right in saying the Lipizzaner's at the Spanish riding school never have any turnout either?
teapot
Well-Known Member
Nope. Another set up that does six to eight weeks on site, before moving to their second site for a break, turnout etc. Again though, probably worked and managed far better than the average horse.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
No, you are not right about the SRS horses. Like most other working horses they go on "holidays" to the country and the young horses are loose schooled in the Grand Hall. They are stallions, so they're not all romping around together in rolling acres however.
windswoo
Well-Known Member
Hi Cortez - I thought I'd get corrected on that if it wasn't correct - thank you.
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
the problem with "influencers" is there's no entry requirements for that role. so there's absolutely no point in expecting them to be responsible or truthful or even sensible. it's a totally self serving occupation. if young people are picking up rubbish information from them then it's for the parents or guardians to step up.
I don't think many pro riders fit the influencer category. a few like Olivia Towers, maybe, but i think she's pretty benign in this regard. having a social media profile as a pro rider is not the same as being an influencer is it...? it's self promotion/publicity.
I don't think many pro riders fit the influencer category. a few like Olivia Towers, maybe, but i think she's pretty benign in this regard. having a social media profile as a pro rider is not the same as being an influencer is it...? it's self promotion/publicity.
Celtic Fringe
Well-Known Member
Social media and role models do need to be very aware of how they might influence others.
However, I think that good yards/trainers/riders are acutely aware of the physical and mental wellbeing of equines and will do their very best to ensure the best possible care.
I think that where horses have not been part of a herd from an early age they may never fully mature in terms of their social and mental development. In my opinion this can result in adult horses who essentially show 'foal' behaviour e.g. nipping which would have been naturally curbed by an older herd member and also possibly other issues such as separation anxiety etc. In some cases where horses have been harshly disciplined by handlers when kept as isolated youngsters will retreat rapidly when told off, expecting to be hit - they have never had the opportunity to 'learn to be a horse'. Quite sad to see.
However, I think that good yards/trainers/riders are acutely aware of the physical and mental wellbeing of equines and will do their very best to ensure the best possible care.
I think that where horses have not been part of a herd from an early age they may never fully mature in terms of their social and mental development. In my opinion this can result in adult horses who essentially show 'foal' behaviour e.g. nipping which would have been naturally curbed by an older herd member and also possibly other issues such as separation anxiety etc. In some cases where horses have been harshly disciplined by handlers when kept as isolated youngsters will retreat rapidly when told off, expecting to be hit - they have never had the opportunity to 'learn to be a horse'. Quite sad to see.
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
Footballers, cricketers etc are 'made' to be role models, and get in a lot of trouble if they do something seen as naughty. It is a bit weird that top riders seem to escape that (or do they?)
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
i can see that if you are on a team or in receipt of funding then you need to be more accountable in that way, but not if you're basically a private business competing or training horses?
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
A lot of the top riders are in receipt of the Sport funding through the performance pathways, which would make them similar.
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
Yeah accepted, but there are often people moaning about less prominent pros and what they put online - big bust up over some bloke on tiktok fairly recently for example?
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
Ooo I wouldn't know that one, I don't have tik tok, or instagram so I miss a lot of that ?. What was it about?
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
lol nor me, the outrage was on here
teapot
Well-Known Member
Seem to remember Emily King getting a load of flack for her driving related crime ages ago.
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
I think I commented on that post too, my memory is terrible. I was probably judgy.lol nor me, the outrage was on here
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
It was about a guy who was using pictures of himself sat in a very peculiar hollow backed way on a grossly overbent dressage horse to sell his range of very tight fitting sports wear.
The "outrage" was not about his post but about his very rude reply to a forum member who dared to comment on his post that he was not giving a very good example of dressage training. She was so cross about being called names by him that she then posted on here. Fair game, I thought.
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
Hmm I remember it differently, there was a lot of outrage about his riding!