Welfare issues with polo?

[cptrayes]

I do however find the posts from Moomin and Cptrayes aggressive including name calling simply because people have chosen to disagree with their view, a view that is not educated because neither have actually been involved with the sport.

Not one polo supporter has chosen to be rude. A discussion is just that, when you post asking if polo is a welfare concern you are going to get some who say yes and some who say no but if you ask a question and then promptly abuse the people whose views differ from yours then there is really no point asking, is there?

I beg your pardon?


Name calling? Where?

Rudeness? Where?

Aggression? Where?

Abuse? Where?


I do not accept your argument that it is necessary to be involved in a sport that uses horses to have an opinion about how those horses are being used. By that argument, no sport with welfare implications could ever be stopped, because only its supporters could complain about it and they are supporters.

It is intriguing that some of the fiercest criticism on this thread has come from those who were in the sport and have left it.

 

[cptrayes]

Does anyone see the irony in the statement that not all the ponies are strapped down.?

Does this not mean that some of the ponies are inherently much better suited to the game than others? And would it not be the case if the strapping were banned, that people would then take more care to select, ride and train only those that were most suited to the game and least likely to be abused by it?

Is there no-one in the game prepared to discuss this point?

 

[Mongoose11]

I have only managed to get to page 7 before wanting to scratch out my own eyes. If Moomin1 and Craptrays ever formed a WWW wrestling team I wonder what they might name themselves?

Any suggestions?

 

[fburton]

I may not have played polo, but I am heavily involved in welfare, and my opinion is that polo is not high up there on welfare standards. Sorry.

Does one have to have been personally involved with an activity to have valid opinions on welfare? No, but I'm sure it helps - although it could also be argued that someone who holds the activity dear to them is going to biased in favour of it. And for some activities, the welfare concerns are so obvious, one wouldn't want to be involved anyway! So I think it's useful to have input both from those with direct experience and from others viewing at a distance.

 

[Honey08]

deleted!

 

[fburton]

I have only managed to get to page 7 before wanting to scratch out my own eyes. If Moomin1 and Craptrays ever formed a WWW wrestling team I wonder what they might name themselves?

Any suggestions?

Here's the name calling - very mature I must say. :frown3:

 

[cptrayes]

Mongoose 11 unlike you I post under my own name, and your post is therefore extremely offensive and spectacularly juvenile. I have reported you.

I welcome your apology as soon as you grow up enough to provide one.

 

[zigzag]

There is cruelty in ALL sport, what about show ponies lunged for hours before kids can ride them, tied up in a stable for hours a day with tight side reins to get the "desired " outline, Show jumpers rapped to get them to jump higher, etc etc, There are good owners/riders in all sport, sadly there are many who are not as nice, I wince at a lot of sports, polo included, but also see many fantastic people in each discipline. It's a shame that many others do not follow their example.

However, a question for the polo players ( I have never played polo so do not know) If the ponies are so responsive to seat and leg and neck rein, why do they need such severe bits and running reins?

 

[Mongoose11]

I was having a very immature moment. You are being spectacularly aggressive in your manner though. You genuinely don't see it, that doesn't make it ok though.

 

[Moomin1]

Does one have to have been personally involved with an activity to have valid opinions on welfare? No, but I'm sure it helps - although it could also be argued that someone who holds the activity dear to them is going to biased in favour of it. And for some activities, the welfare concerns are so obvious, one wouldn't want to be involved anyway! So I think it's useful to have input both from those with direct experience and from others viewing at a distance.

No I don't believe they do at all, however it appears some on this thread think nobody is entitled to judge welfare wise unless they have actually partaken in the sport, sadly.

Mongoose - your post was so spectacularly timed after Doormouse's I actually just made my cat jump from laughing!

 

[Mongoose11]

No I don't believe they do at all, however it appears some on this thread think nobody is entitled to judge welfare wise unless they have actually partaken in the sport, sadly.

Mongoose - your post was so spectacularly timed after Doormouse's I actually just made my cat jump from laughing!

I had read it

The irony was not lost on me

 

[cptrayes]

I was having a very immature moment. You are being spectacularly aggressive in your manner though. You genuinely don't see it, that doesn't make it ok though.

Why is it aggressive to say that I think polo abuses horses?

I note you have not apologised.

 

[RunToEarth]

Does anyone see the irony in the statement that not all the ponies are strapped down.?

Does this not mean that some of the ponies are inherently much better suited to the game than others? And would it not be the case if the strapping were banned, that people would then take more care to select, ride and train only those that were most suited to the game and least likely to be abused by it?

Possibly. I'm not going to insult you by explaining how draw reins work but it is possible to have them on a horse without having to use them constantly - ponies do not spend their games strapped to their chins.

I have horses who would hunt perfectly well bitted with wet spaghetti and never put a toe out of line. I have one that gets so incredibly excited that I have hunted him in a SM and he is a lot more of a handful to control. I presume in the same way that not all ponies will play sensibly in a snaffle without any draw reins on. It doesn't make them unsuitable for the game.

There are all kinds of horses doing all kinds of things with all kind of kit on, I don't see that polo is any different?

 

[cptrayes]

Does anyone see the irony in the statement that not all the ponies are strapped down.?

Does this not mean that some of the ponies are inherently much better suited to the game than others? And would it not be the case if the strapping were banned, that people would then take more care to select, ride and train only those that were most suited to the game and least likely to be abused by it?

Can someone in the game please discuss this?

 

[Mongoose11]

Why is it aggressive to say that I think polo abuses horses?

I note you have not apologised.

No, I haven't apologised, merely excused. It isn't aggressive to say that you think polo abuses horses. What on earth makes you think that I thought it was aggressive to do so?

 

[cptrayes]

Possibly. I'm not going to insult you by explaining how draw reins work but it is possible to have them on a horse without having to use them constantly - ponies do not spend their games strapped to their chins.

I have horses who would hunt perfectly well bitted with wet spaghetti and never put a toe out of line. I have one that gets so incredibly excited that I have hunted him in a SM and he is a lot more of a handful to control. I presume in the same way that not all ponies will play sensibly in a snaffle without any draw reins on. It doesn't make them unsuitable for the game.

There are all kinds of horses doing all kinds of things with all kind of kit on, I don't see that polo is any different?

Ah, thank you RTE,


I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree. For me, if I had to put all that tack on any horse to do its job, and I could regularly see it straining against it with wild eyes and an open mouth, I would make the decision that the horse was not suited to the sport and sell it or change what I do with it.

Earlier this year I tried to convert my six foot hedge hopper into a dressage horse. He has superb paces and would do a good test. But I've had him five years, know him inside out, and knew that although he was consenting to do what I wanted, (sometimes in draw reins) that he was not happy with the job.

Reluctantly, I sold him to someone who still wants to jump six foot hedges like he does.

 

[cptrayes]

No, I haven't apologised, merely excused. It isn't aggressive to say that you think polo abuses horses.

There is no excuse for how offensive you were with my personal name. Even a child would know how offensive that was. You owe me an apology.

What on earth makes you think that I thought it was aggressive to do so?

You said so. It's all I've done, and you called me aggressive.

 

[Evie91]

I can only comment on my experience. I have been on 'learn to play polo days' and also had a couple of lessons.
I must say I absolutely loved it! It was a brilliant experience and I had no concerns about the welfare of the horses.
The horses I have ridden have been so easy - as others have said, they respond to the lightest touch, so no need to haul them around.
They were in good condition, stood together in a barn. I bought them all apples and asked if it was ok to feed them. I was so impressed as all horses, stood next to each other, ate their apple and that was it - no biting or kicking, no arguing. The groom has assured me this is what they would be like. The horses walked in to the barn of their own accord and took up their spot and went back to the same spot when bought back in later.
I witnessed no harsh treatment, grooms were caring and passionate about their horses/sport. One horse had a huge scar from old injury but this had been nothing to do with polo.
There is cruelty in all disciplines, IMO polo is no better or worse than any other horse sport. I judge as I find and had no concern about the yard I have visited and would reccomend giving it a go - really good fun
As for stating it is the only horse sport you can have a go at without being a rider, I disagree - you can go trekking, galloping on a beach, driving and use a hireling to hunt.

 

[Mongoose11]

There is no excuse for how offensive you were with my name. You owe me an apology.




You said so. It's all I've done, and you called me aggressive.

You are obtuse. I meant obtuse (with a hint of aggression).


I have just looked back to see what I had written that could have caused such offence and I nearly splattered my screen with coca cola. That was entirely my iPad. I believed I had typed Cptrayes!

 

[amandap]

Does one have to have been personally involved with an activity to have valid opinions on welfare? No, but I'm sure it helps - although it could also be argued that someone who holds the activity dear to them is going to biased in favour of it.

That old chestnut is always rolled out at some point to try to shut people up or discredit their argument. The fact is we all are involved with horses so have a knowledge of them, that knowledge and experience is different for each and gives us all a unique perspective and understanding. I am of the opinion (rightly or wrongly) that we can become desensitized to what we see regularly and are involved in, so sometimes don't see things the same way or as objectively as others.

I haven't read anything aggressive etc. posted by either CPT or Moomin1 or by the majority of the pro posters.

 

[cptrayes]

You are obtuse. I meant obtuse (with a hint of aggression).


I have just looked back to see what I had written that could have caused such offence and I nearly splattered my screen with coca cola. That was entirely my iPad. I believed I had typed Cptrayes!

So can I have an apology now? For the accidental abuse of my name, if that's what it was, because of course I have been using it for many years and never had a spell checker offer me the alternative you used.

And for calling me aggressive when you meant obtuse.

I'm happy for you to call me obtuse if you wish, since it is so far from the truth to cause me some considerable amusement. Assuming that's the word you really meant that time

 

[Mongoose11]

So can I have an apology now? For the accidental abuse of my name, if that's what it was, because of course I have been using it for many years and never had a spell checker offer me the alternative you used.

And for calling me aggressive when you meant obtuse.

I'm happy for you to call me obtuse if you wish, since it is so far from the truth to cause me some considerable amusement. Assuming that's the word you really meant that time

Yeh, think I got the right word that time. I'll have a think.

Do you use an iPad? It creates a whole new world of typos sometimes. iPad says sorry. Is the humour lost completely? It must have raised a smile, surely?

 

[cptrayes]

Yeh, think I got the right word that time. I'll have a think.

Do you use an iPad? It creates a whole new world of typos sometimes. iPad says sorry. Is the humour lost completely? It must have raised a smile, surely?

No mongoose, it didn't raise a smile It read as if you completely meant it and it's not a user name it's my name.

I find it amazing that you cannot bring yourself to apologise for the unintentional offence that you have caused by failing to read what you wrote even after I told you specifically that my name was involved.

Your lack of apology or any recognition of the offence your post caused simply makes me feel that if you did not do it deliberately then you don't mind, or worse are amused, that it happened, and for me those two are very nearly the same thing.

 

[Mongoose11]

No mongoose, it didn't raise a smile It read as if you completely meant it and it's not a user name it's my name.

I find it amazing that you cannot bring yourself to apologise for the unintentional offence that you have caused by failing to read what you wrote even after I told you specifically that my name was involved.

Your lack of apology or any recognition of the offence your post caused simply makes me feel that if you did not do it deliberately then you don't mind that it happened, and for me those two are very nearly the same thing.

Oh dear me. I am sorry for any unintentional offence that I may have cause as a result of not proof reading my post. I also apologise that upon realising my iPad error that I laughed out loud and attempted to make light of the situation.

I am sure I will be suitably punished as you have 'reported' me to the authorities.

Apologies for the thread hijack, sensible people.

 

[cptrayes]

Oh dear me. I am sorry for any unintentional offence that I may have cause as a result of not proof reading my post. I also apologise that upon realising my iPad error that I laughed out loud and attempted to make light of the situation.

Thank you.

 

[EllenJay]

Oh dear me. I am sorry for any unintentional offence that I may have cause as a result of not proof reading my post. I also apologise that upon realising my iPad error that I laughed out loud and attempted to make light of the situation.

Apologies for the thread hijack, sensible people.

This is so funny. I actually had to read the "offensive" post 3 times to see what had caused the upset. Brilliant!

 

[Mongoose11]

Thank you.

You are welcome and not so much of a bad sport.

 

[fburton]

iPad corrections can be very annoying!

 

[cptrayes]

And back to the point.

I think we will all have to agree to differ.

I haven't heard anything which explains to me why polo can't be played without creating so many incidents that look so ugly on camera. In fact, I have heard from people that there are lower level matches played exactly that way, and that even at higher levels there are ponies which are so suited to the game that they would not be seen in such situations.

If anyone is able to invite me to see a competitive game where the kind of play that concerns me will only happen as an occasional error of judgment, I'd love to gain first hand experience of that (but not so much that I'd pay for the privilege )

Thank you to the people who kept to an adult discussion, I found it very interesting.

 

[PollyP99]

Goodness me the heat is getting to a few people!

As a non player who rides passed polo regularly I can tell you those I've seen LOVE it, they are bouncing gleefully around IMO. My own horse gets most excited to know why all these others keep shooting about, can't say I've ever thought the tack looks any heavier than other disciplines either.

Think there's a few people itching for a row here but as a neutral, a little less petulance might make for a better discussion on the part of the 'against' contingent.