Well this is a can of worms

[Littlelegs]

Excellent description kerilli, the riding light myth irritates me too. The laws of gravity dictate you cannot feel lighter than you actually are, only heavier.
And as far as curves, or lack of go, that has no effect on how much of a 'real woman' you are, or how sexy you are. I'm tall, & always been thin. I'm also straight up & down, with little in the way of boobs, hips, bum etc. And I'm every bit as sexy & womanly as my best mate, who has a figure like Jessica rabbit. At times I have been super thin, just because that's how my body is. And that doesn't effect how sexy I am, or womanly, because I'm healthy & confident about the way I look. Being thin isn't always down to eating disorders, or mental issues. Some of us are just like that. I've spent most of my life listening to negative comments from other females about my size. Because I eat lots, I have often been on the end of comments about bulimia too. Lots of times I've had comments along the lines of 'I didn't think you ate that much, I assumed you were the type to pick at a lettuce leaf'. To which when younger I would reply 'I am suprised at you too, I thought you sat eating pies all day'. Now I don't really care. I assume rude comments are either from a lack of intelligence & knowledge, or jealousy. Not jealousy of my size as such, but the fact I'm happy & confident about my figure & they aren't, whatever their size. And tbh, while there are times its a nuisance to have to almost constantly eat, I am incredibly lucky that bread, choc, cheese etc aren't something I ever need to limit myself on. I can eat all the foods I love, without watching the quantities. And I think that, more than anything else inspires jealousy.

 

[kerilli]

It does, littlelegs. I'd now quite like to strangle you.
It is weird that nowadays it seems fine to be nasty to people if they are thin but absolutely taboo if they are fat (not on the internet obv, it's Open Season on here!)
The nicest thing anyone has ever said to me about my weight was at a school reunion recently, where a guy (and I thought this was a VERY enlightened thing for a guy to say) asked me "So, it is good genes, or pure willpower?" Made me laugh a lot. I enlightened him... it's the latter. Love of horses & riding + vanity = willpower.

 

[flump]

Littlelegs you sound like my brother he is naturally skinny but that's perfect for his job, he eats alot and doesn't have to worry about what or how much. I WAS jealous of him and I thought it was ok to eat what he Ate but it's not and I'm not him. Some people are natrually skinny and it doesn't make them a 'twig' or Ill or anything like that. I don't however believe people are nYrually fat, o got here on my own! Can't blame genes!

 

[foxy1]

I can't quote because I am on my phone but just wanted to answer the question about the riding schools looking askance at men. I have a friend who husband is 16 stone of pure muscle, he is about 6'2" and recently wanted to try riding lessons. They looked the length and breath of Scotland and couldn't find a riding school to take him. So yes - riding schools judge men in the same way.

To be fair to the riding schools, what type of horse can tolerate a 16 stone person learning rising trot?

 

[*Spider*]

But surely you'd need a horse with a super long back to support such a length! They should not come behind the 8th (correct me if it's the 10th) rib as it's not supported by the sternum.

 

[FionaM12]

And as far as curves, or lack of go, that has no effect on how much of a 'real woman' you are, or how sexy you are. I'm tall, & always been thin. I'm also straight up & down, with little in the way of boobs, hips, bum etc. And I'm every bit as sexy & womanly as my best mate, who has a figure like Jessica rabbit.

My best pal and I used to get dressed up and hit the town together regularly when we were somewhat younger.

I've always been curvy ("hourglass" as she calls me) whereas she's taller and pretty much straight up and down. However she has the figure of a supermodel, carries herself beautifully and is one of the sexiest-looking women I know. She turns heads everywhere.

Funnily enough, I envied her height and slenderness and she my curves!

I used to say, "You're so slim....." and she'd reply, "Yes, but you can do cleavage!".

 

[Wagtail]

Excellent description kerilli, the riding light myth irritates me too. The laws of gravity dictate you cannot feel lighter than you actually are, only heavier.
And as far as curves, or lack of go, that has no effect on how much of a 'real woman' you are, or how sexy you are. I'm tall, & always been thin. I'm also straight up & down, with little in the way of boobs, hips, bum etc. And I'm every bit as sexy & womanly as my best mate, who has a figure like Jessica rabbit. At times I have been super thin, just because that's how my body is. And that doesn't effect how sexy I am, or womanly, because I'm healthy & confident about the way I look. Being thin isn't always down to eating disorders, or mental issues. Some of us are just like that. I've spent most of my life listening to negative comments from other females about my size. Because I eat lots, I have often been on the end of comments about bulimia too. Lots of times I've had comments along the lines of 'I didn't think you ate that much, I assumed you were the type to pick at a lettuce leaf'. To which when younger I would reply 'I am suprised at you too, I thought you sat eating pies all day'. Now I don't really care. I assume rude comments are either from a lack of intelligence & knowledge, or jealousy. Not jealousy of my size as such, but the fact I'm happy & confident about my figure & they aren't, whatever their size. And tbh, while there are times its a nuisance to have to almost constantly eat, I am incredibly lucky that bread, choc, cheese etc aren't something I ever need to limit myself on. I can eat all the foods I love, without watching the quantities. And I think that, more than anything else inspires jealousy.

I used to be like this. However, it is mainly about attitude to food. I ate to live rather than lived to eat. I never had to restrict myself and people used to say that it wasn't fair as I could eat what I wanted and not put on weight. But actually when I started to look at it, I rarely consumed more than 2500 calories a day. I Ate three good meals and didn't snack inbetween. I had an active job looking after horses and so burned up all those calories. However, a few years ago I started being unable to eat, and that started to make me ill and I lost more and more weight. The pills I am on are the same as those often given to anorexics. But I never had anorexia, I really WANTED to eat. But now I know what it's like to be what my husband jokes 'a normal person' who craves carbs all the time. I started to snack inbetween meals. I thought it great at first as I had so much energy. But then my weight just shot up. Had I not taken control I would be massive by now.

Anyway, what I am saying is that all these people who are slim and appear to be able to eat almost anything without putting on weight, very rarely are actually eating that much at all. It is just because they and others perceive them as having no restrictions on their intake that they give that impression. The exception being teenagers. Now they really CAN put it away and remain stick thin.

A few years ago I used to fetch a friend's 12 year old daughter from school and she also had her pony at my yard. She was pretty overweight, but I couldn't understand it because she always turned down any offer of food I made. Then I realised why. Her mother started to bring her plated up meals to eat in the tack room before riding her pony. I was staggered by the size of them. My six foot husband would have struggled. Another time, she had a (thin) friend here to come and ride her pony. They both had fish and chips brought to them by her Mum from our local chippy. The portions were such that neither me or my husband had ever managed to finish one. She ate hers no problem, and when her friend gave up half way through her portion, she polished that off as well! So for her, she wasn't naturally greedy, she had just been brought up on huge portion sizes. And her mothers cup cakes are to die for!

 

[Emilieu]

Foxy1 I think the riding schools were quite right and when my friend told me I wasn't surprised at all. Just made the point to show that muscled up men are treated in the same way - its not discrimination it is just comments sense for the welfare of the horses x

 

[Littlelegs]

That sounds so familiar fiona, & I think it did a lot for my self esteem when younger. Mid teens I despised my very stick thin figure, especially my legs. She hated her hourglass shape, especially her bum. I remember getting ready for a party together, & we both did the 'I wish I had your...' thing, about each others figures. It was enlightening, because until then neither of us had ever considered our negatives were a plus point to others.
Beans, no of course no-ones naturally fat, but genes do play a part as well as lifestyle.
Kerilli, I do certainly appreciate it, especially given my love of carbs.

 

[kerilli]

the portion size you grow up with is a HUGE deal. I dated a guy for years who was very slim, and his brother was even slimmer, 5'10" and 7 stone. Both had very little appetite. When we went to his parents' for dinner I always came away really hungry and we had to stop at the petrol station for extra food on the way home! His mother would serve small portions, no extra bowls to help yourself from... contrast with another guy I dated who was the opposite, and both he and his brother ate HUGE portions. When we ate at his house his mother put a couple of loaves of cheap white bread on the table for them to eat WITH their full meal.. and both they and their dad would always put away about 10 slices each + full roast, etc. Trained over many years to eat huge portions and think it normal.
On hols once with my large relative, she couldn't decide which of two full platters to have for lunch... so had both. About 4-5 hours later we were all discussing supper and she said "I'm really hungry, I only had a light lunch". I was shocked to the core... she'd eaten at least twice as much as me (and I can eat!) and I was still full...
fwiw you can shrink the size of your stomach. When I came out of hospital after a week on a drip I remember clearly that 1/2 a boiled egg filled me up completely, couldn't finish it. Weird.

 

[FfionWinnie]

I am happy riding however even the way I am just now, I constantly think people are looking at me now thinking im too heavy to ride, juding me etc... But now after reading this thread and seeing how much opinion really does vary.. thats changed for me. Ive realsied that sure some people will, however I cant change this, what I can change is my paranoia! and not be so worried when i truly ride horses that can carry me with ease.

Great post alainax and you look really great. Very pretty and a great figure. I don't think anyone will be thinking anything other than that

 

[alainax]

Great post alainax and you look really great. Very pretty and a great figure. I don't think anyone will be thinking anything other than that

I went back to try and edit the post as I chickend out of it but it wont let me now! Thank you for your comment, thats realy such a beautiful thing to say.

 

[Natch]

May I add that it irks me when people use the term 'thin' to describe someone within a healthy weight range. So you're either fat or thin? Um. No. Fat is unhealthy. Thin is unhealthy. A healthy weight is just that. Don't confuse a normal sized person with a thin person. I think the same irks me about the use of the word 'curvy' and possibly the new to me term fluffy. A woman who is a healthy weight but who is a size 14-16 is perhaps 'curvy'. I was probably in that category at 12 1/2 stone, pear shape and size 12 top 16 bottom. A woman who is a size 22 shouldn't think of herself in the same category as that IMHO, I don't of myself right now . And I agree that in itself is difficult, as people like lisa riley are sexy, she shines with confidence (and She. Can. Dance!) although the blokes who find her sexy are perhaps fewer in number than those who find some of the slimmer dancers sexy, but that's individual preference for you. Self confidence is sexy, and there's nothing wrong with boosting a woman's self confidence at any size, but to do so using the term 'curvy' is to give the wrong impression that its healthy to be fat, IMO.

I wonder if the attitude, calling people 'twigs', thin, 'in need of a good meal' etc evolved from avoidance of anorexia and bullemia? Or if it is simply another way to express body dysmorphia because 'i don't want to be like that (normal size) because that's unhealthy, I prefer my curves which are sexy'

 

[Wagtail]

Wow what a thread!!
I have followed it from the start, and have tried to respond but deleted so many times.

I’ve been riding all my life and only stopped when I felt I was too large for the horses I was riding. My own two passed away a few years ago, so I was riding for some friends. They had asked why I hadn’t been coming to ride the horses very much and I was very embarrassed to explain to them that I felt too large now. They both thought I was being ridiculous and that I was perfectly fine, but it just didn’t feel right to me ( I was around 17stone / 238lbs).

I have been to 21 stone / 294lbs and back again, I know full well its challenges and triumphs that it faces.

However… as a rider you MUST know your limitations. All through my “fat times” I was never unfit, I climbed a mountain no problem at my heaviest, however… this didn’t mean I would feel ok riding. I know I would have been fit enough too, however I didn’t know of any horse in the world that could have been large enough for me to be happy about being the right size.

Usually I read these threads and get all defensive of the larger riders, ( even at my lightest I'm still closing in on 200lbs/14stone. However I feel completely happy at this weight to be riding. But we all must know where it stops. I am happy riding however even the way I am just now, I constantly think people are looking at me now thinking im too heavy to ride, juding me etc... But now after reading this thread and seeing how much opinion really does vary.. thats changed for me. Ive realsied that sure some people will, however I cant change this, what I can change is my paranoia! and not be so worried when i truly ride horses that can carry me with ease.

As for the 22inch saddle…. Ill admit I don’t know much about this, however… to me it seems more of a publicity stunt.. and as a business woman myself – it worked! They may not ever make one however they have sure got folks talking about it.


Here’s a daft analogy, I'm usually a size 16 , I don’t like shopping n top shop as they tend not to stock many 16’s or much bigger. I like to shop in next as they go all the way up to 22+. It’s a comfortable range to shop in. So maybe… larger riders would feel comfortable shopping in a place that has more sizes than they require… just a thought. (i could be totally wrong, just what goes through my daft mind when i think of shopping :$)

I think in conclusion we have found that being nasty to fat or slim people (or even those in the middle) is just plain not nice. We have found that a 22inch saddle may suit a larger rider, however finding a suitable horse ( inc back length etc) may well be impossible.

We have found that there are many who struggle with their weight, and many who love their horses. We have found our own limits to what we think is right and wrong for riding, and found how much those vary from others who have their own opinions.

We have all sparked a debate, on this and that side of the pond. And maybe just maybe… it will open some eyes to what really is ok to be placing on our horses backs, whether it be big long saddles, light riders who think they are too heavy or heavy riders who think it is ok.

I know it all certainly made me think

Happy riding out there everyone, gl to those on thier weight loss battle - if i can do it anyone can! lol! and to those who dont ride as you think you are too big, get lots a good advice, and read this thread!

Great post!

The thing is, I expect that you ARE absolutely fine on the horses you choose to ride. The problem is, that it is often the people that worry about it the most that are fine on their horses. Sadly, it is equally often the people who are way too heavy that don't give a damn. Or are lied to by professionals either too scared to tell them the truth, or who don't want to lose their business. The lady from the other forum who rides the 14hh grullo is an example. She has added to the thread that her vet, chiro etc all say she is fine! Sorry but that is utter tosh! They are either lying to her, or really should not be a professional in their field.

 

[Littlelegs]

Wagtail, that sounds very much like a friend of my daughters, exactly the same on the portion size. Like you, I don't live to eat but I do eat way in excess of 2500 calories even in an office job. I have 4 man size meals a day & plenty of unhealthy snacks. But although I enjoy eating, I don't think of food when not hungry. Working with horses I ate more in a day than most people do in a week. Even now, I eat the same as my boyfriend, who outweighs me by almost 6stone. But I fidget, a lot, & being mainly muscle burn off far more than average even watching tv. And I think maybe like horses, my lack of fat means I burn off calories keeping warm too.

 

[kerilli]

but Naturally, healthy and/or fit people usually are thin, aren't they? I don't regard 'thin' or 'slim' as being negative. For health reasons, it's better to be on the slimmer side of the 'normal' weight range (which has a huge range depending on who you talk to!) than overweight, surely?
And dragging it back to horses... it's always got to be better for the horse if the rider is on the lighter side than the heavier side. I've never heard of a horse having a problem because the rider was too light. Knew a man who had to do a LOT of work in the gym to build up his strength to ride a 4* horse who got stronger and stronger as they went round a track.... but that's a bit different. That was about strength and effectiveness for a specific horse, not about his weight (which was on the lighter side of normal I guess.) A polite well-trained horse can be ridden by a tiny rider and go beautifully.

 

[Wagtail]

A polite well-trained horse can be ridden by a tiny rider and go beautifully.

So there is hope for the foal at my yard who I will be breaking in 3 years time? He is likely to make 17hh +. His Mum is 16.1 hh and is a pain to ride as she is so gobby. I am hoping he doesn't take after her. She was broken and trained on a show jumping yard where they were hardly ever out of draw reins. I can get her nice and light with a lot of effort, but then her smaller, older and weaker owner gets on and we are back to square one. I am hoping foalie doesn't take after his Mum!

 

[Littlelegs]

It's very hard to define what 'thin' as opposed to healthy is. Bmi is too vague, according to that I'm unhealthy, except when pregnant I have always been under the so called minimum of 18.5. Yet health professionals don't think its an issue for me. Boyfriend is above 25 & always has been as an adult, again he's healthy. If you take a top athletes body, they have virtually no body fat, but lots of muscle. I'm not any thinner than them, I just don't have the same muscle to bulk it out with, so bmi & appearance is very different.

 

[kerilli]

Yes, BMI is utterly rubbish because it does not take fat/muscle ratio into account. Many top athletes are classified as Obese going by their BMI - ridiculous. Body fat percentage is better. Or measuring with pinch test (caliper thingies) maybe.

 

[Natch]

I think 'thin' = underweight, aka too little fat
Slim= a healthy weight.

I think you can be too thin to effectively ride your horse. Too little fat in the body and you can't produce hormones properly, and your strength for things like keeping in balance can be affected. I've seen it happen, and heard the reports if a doctor telling an underweight horse rider to put on fat, as well as muscle, and many people on fitness forums at their peak like to not be below a certain % body fat for performance reasons. Some equine colleges have lower weight limits for safety just as they do upper weight limits.

I agree the less weight a horse has to carry the better. And the fitter the rider, the better. Who was it that said this isn't a sport and all riders aren't athletes? That's not true IMO. All horse riders are athletes taking part in a sport, whether hacking or riding the olympics.

 

[Shantara]

I think the main problem people have, is that it's a live animal you are asking to carry you around...for fun!

I have no issue with large people working with dogs, or cars, or bikes, or anything else that isn't alive (or in the case of a dog, doesn't require sitting on).
Though, even in the case of dogs I'd be a bit iffy. There was a woman who had a dog in my village. She was massive and so was the dog. It never got taken for walks because she was too fat and lazy to be bothered. She would have been much better with a cat.

My point I guess is that, when living things are involved, you should be able to meet the requirements of the animal and keep it as pain free and happy as possible.

 

[Big Ben]

Excellent description kerilli, the riding light myth irritates me too. The laws of gravity dictate you cannot feel lighter than you actually are, only heavier.

To quote Scotty "Ye cannae change the laws of physics!" so how can you feel heavier than you are?

 

[rhino]

some one on her put that they are not but they are.

Who? Where? Please could you find and quote as I certainly didn't see anyone say that...

Now that's a proper horse! Lovely!

 

[eahotson]

To quote Scotty "Ye cannae change the laws of physics!" so how can you feel heavier than you are?

Like it!

 

[FionaM12]

My point I guess is that, when living things are involved, you should be able to meet the requirements of the animal and keep it as pain free and happy as possible.

Sounds right to me.

 

[kerilli]

To quote Scotty "Ye cannae change the laws of physics!" so how can you feel heavier than you are?

An unbalanced, shifting load (as per my 'sack of water in backpack' example) which the carrier has to make extra effort to carry, might, I guess. A beginner rider thumping on the horse's back, maybe maintaining balance by the reins, surely s/he'd be more of a burden than a competent rider of the same weight?
I'm convinced nobody can ride lighter than their physical weight, that's for sure.

 

[Littlelegs]

Ditto kerilli again. If you are slamming up & down & bouncing about, you will feel heavier than you actually are. My little girl is 4stone. Picking her up isn't a struggle, or even carrying her a short distance when she's been ill etc. But, if she falls asleep downstairs, it takes far more effort to carry her cos she's dead weight. Awake, she supports herself, asleep she flops, which makes her feel heavier than she is.

 

[Natch]

I think the term riding light means riding balanced. I agree that one cannot appear to the horse as weighing less than they do, but I think they can appear to be more of a burdern if they ride badly. If we are talking laws of physics, a rider lifting themselves up to rise to the trot and then sitting by relaxing their muscles suddenly lands on the horse's back with more force than one who rises and lowers themself in a controlled movement. The former must be more of a burden than the latter, and to be ridden by someone like that must carry more risk of injury than someone more in balance. The horse may also be expending more energy to correct a lack of balance either by setting their neck against rein pressure or muscle adjustment of the back and abs and even lateral movement to maintain overall stability. I would imagine the burdern of an unbalanced, unfit rider is more than that of a heavier but balanced and fit rider, (within certain parameters). A sleeping toddler is far less of a burdern for us to carry than a tantruming one kicking and wriggling.

I would argue that fitness to ride is more important than adiposity, certainly at the levels of hacking and light schooling. Whilst fitness and adiposity are often related I believe someone who has a high amount of adiposity can also be relatively fit, and fit enough to do basic riding tasks as I have just described. I say this again before anyone screams at me, this is subject to being within certain parameters, and still being a light enough weight for the mount you are on.

 

[Natch]

Damn, while I was composing my long winded message kerilli and littlelwgs made similar points much better and concisely. Pipped to the post, how rude

 

[kerilli]

if only that was the rudest thing on this thread...